Modi bats for dalits to solemnize Hindu weddings

[scorpionx]

A Pundit told me that hereditary priesthood was introduced by Brahmins themselves. They changed the scriptures as they were the only one who knew how to read. They got backing from Kshatriyas.

I remember one ritual when a pundit said, either you can do this or invite and feed 7 pundits as offering to God.

I mean this is ridiculous. But no body apply common sense.

In Rg Veda,there are so many hymns that describes where son of a smith can easily become a priest and son of a priest can easily become a warrior. Its amazing to see how text and teaching can be manipulated for narrow egoism.

 

[indushek]

A Pundit told me that hereditary priesthood was introduced by Brahmins themselves. They changed the scriptures as they were the only one who knew how to read. They got backing from Kshatriyas.

I remember one ritual when a pundit said, either you can do this or invite and feed 7 pundits as offering to God.

I mean this is ridiculous. But no body apply common sense.

there is nothing called hereditary priesthood krait, each and every profession of olden times slowly became hereditary because of selfish nature of people themselves. You speak of priesthood as it stands out before everybody what about the sonar lohar and pot maker etc etc, for a long long time these were also passed on gen to generation ?? Did any vysya pass the tricks of trade to others yes he did not stop them but did not pass them too. Socially may be these are not as popular as a priest but they are powerful too and made money??

 

[KS]

that is already happening, i am a bramhin but i am not a priest i go for job. in certain temples in my state i have seen people from other castes becoming priests by studying courses.

but i disagree that this is a great social leveller because just becoming priest one moves up the ladder is what ur statement makes it sound. I don't if that is what u wanted to say however, the greatest social leveller will be when the whole country will have free access till graduation studies irrespective of caste creed and religion.

There are many poor among so called Forward castes with the ever increasing of caste based reservations a new social apartheid are being created very slowly. Do we want another social revolution and they becoming the darling of politicians in far future. A rule brought out to end the apartheid based on caste giving birth to another breed is the great irony.

Again valid points.

What I meant as a social leveller is this move is highly symbolic considering that priesthood is at the very top in Hindu hierarchy and even allowing Dalits to do that creates a ripple effect in the minds of other Dalits that they too are being respected as Hindus to conduct the rituals. This will be a major factor in removing the sense of alienation amongst them which is being misused by certain elements for their own nefarious designs.

for example since you are from AP I will give this example - if you noticed the recent speeches of asauddin owaisi he has started saying that they work for minorities and dalits, thus creating a wedge between hindus and dalits and giving the impression that he does not consider the dalits as Hindus. Now if Dalits see their men doing the topmost job in Hinduism they will not fall for these cheap tactics of leaders like Owaisi..

That is what I meant.

there is nothing called hereditary priesthood krait, each and every profession of olden times slowly became hereditary because of selfish nature of people themselves. Y

That is true..the earlier varna system which was flexible after some time solidified into the "by-birth" caste system.

Now we people have the responsibility to make sure that such discriminatory practises are reformed.

 

[indushek]

Again valid points.

What I meant as a social leveller is this move is highly symbolic considering that priesthood is at the very top in Hindu hierarchy and even allowing Dalits to do that creates a ripple effect in the minds of other Dalits that they too are being respected as Hindus to conduct the rituals. This will be a major factor in removing the sense of alienation amongst them which is being misused by certain elements for their own nefarious designs.

for example since you are from AP I will give this example - if you noticed the recent speeches of asauddin owaisi he has started saying that they work for minorities and dalits, thus creating a wedge between hindus and dalits and giving the impression that he does not consider the dalits as Hindus. Now if Dalits see their men doing the topmost job in Hinduism they will not fall for these cheap tactics of leaders like Owaisi..

That is what I meant.



That is true..the earlier varna system which was flexible after some time solidified into the "by-birth" caste system.

Now we people have the responsibility to make sure that such discriminatory practises are reformed.

You know mate we speak of Scheduled castes as the backward castes right and the ones susceptible to conversions and what not. The funniest thing is i have seen not a large number but sizable ones still in Hinduism. There are certain (one of my office and his friends) groups who are religious they make it a point to join the Hanuman jayanti n old city, for all the bashing and they take pride in it.

The ones who convert are mostly from my region that is coastal andhra, they do it for money but keep their caste certificate for reservations too. Now tell me if u want social levellers u can do that for above category not the below ones.

In Rg Veda,there are so many hymns that describes where son of a smith can easily become a priest and son of a priest can easily become a warrior. Its amazing to see how text and teaching can be manipulated for narrow egoism.

Hunger for power and money mate. Just super impose this on present day actually by rule of law anybody can become MLA and MP but can we even dream?? it is already hereditary now. This is what happens to any system, slow degeneration.

 

[AUz]

if hindus treat dalits in THIS way (no entry allowed on weddings, untouchables etc) then I can't imagine how poorly Muslims are treated in india

 

[KS]

The ones who convert are mostly from my region that is coastal andhra, they do it for money but keep their caste certificate for reservations too. Now tell me if u want social levellers u can do that for above category not the below ones.

that is also true..but the caste is also a major factor as I have seen in Tamil Nadu.

People take advantage only because a section of Hindus dont consider the Dalits as Hindus which gives them the incentive to convert. Making Dalits as priests would send a very string message.

I'm not a Brahmin, but even in my caste many people still look down upon the Dalits..but thankfully they are oldies and the younger generation holds no such views.

 

[KRAIT]

In Rg Veda,there are so many hymns that describes where son of a smith can easily become a priest and son of a priest can easily become a warrior. Its amazing to see how text and teaching can be manipulated for narrow egoism.

I have seen Engineers with top education saying Shudra ko Shudra ka kaam karna chahiye.

I hate these Caste obsessed people. I bash them whoever they are, whatever there age is.

if hindus treat dalits in THIS way (no entry allowed on weddings, untouchables etc) then I can't imagine how poorly Muslims are treated in india

Muslims have better life than Dalits in India. So take a hike and stop passing comments without any solid backing.

 

[KRAIT]

there is nothing called hereditary priesthood krait, each and every profession of olden times slowly became hereditary because of selfish nature of people themselves. You speak of priesthood as it stands out before everybody what about the sonar lohar and pot maker etc etc, for a long long time these were also passed on gen to generation ?? Did any vysya pass the tricks of trade to others yes he did not stop them but did not pass them too. Socially may be these are not as popular as a priest but they are powerful too and made money??

My best friend is Pandit, his father told me that how Brahmins changed the scriptures and his son, my friend who is an Engineer, says Shudra should clean toilets , the job he is supposed to do.

And BTW I am Kshatriya. All my sins are allowed since Brahmin is with me. I can eat meat, drink alcohol still Pandit will support me. Why, because my ancestor used to have the Sword, not Brahmin, Not Vaishya, not Shudra.

Its all about who has the power.

 

[scorpionx]

Hunger for power and money mate. Just super impose this on present day actually by rule of law anybody can become MLA and MP but can we even dream?? it is already hereditary now. This is what happens to any system, slow degeneration.

What I see here is two different scenarios exactly opposite to each other happening in today's India. Unlike UP,Bihar and some parts of Orissa where we have seen ghastly violence and discrimination against backward casts, Bengal experienced a very different situation. The folks from backward casts today have managed to come to the higher economy cluster of the society because of the reservation policy they have enjoyed over the last 60 years. When I was a student I used to see most teachers were from higher casts in the schools but today the thing is entirely different. The backward casts in bengal is no longer an economically deprived society here. I can view this as a great success in their economic uplift but what I can see is a slow degeneration too making its path.

I have seen Engineers with top education saying Shudra ko Shudra ka kaam karna chahiye.

I hate these Caste obsessed people. I bash them whoever they are, whatever there age is.

I read a book where the traveller was making a parikrama around narmada river in 1952s. It was an amazing book to read. Once he was travelling with a group of Naga Sannyasis and there were many shudras among the nagas. I was astonished to read this. Reality is always stranger than fiction

 

[indushek]

Sorry buddy. I disagree. My best friend is Pandit, his father told me that how Brahmins changed the scriptures and his son, my friend who is an Engineer, says Shudra should clean toilets , the job he is supposed to do.

And BTW I am Kshatriya. All my sins are allowed since Brahmin is with me. I can eat meat, drink alcohol still Pandit will support me. Why, because my ancestor used to have the Sword, not Brahmin, Not Vaishya, not Shudra.

Its all about who has the power.

It is impossible, nobody can change scriptures. There is no where written that a Shudra has to do only shudra's work. As nobody tries verify these texts many come up with crazy interpretations. Have u seen the text before it was changed and after, and exactly what was changed?? Is there any purana or veda laying down the duties of each caste and specifically stating u can do this and can't do this??

Your friend is a bigot (sorry for being blunt) if he says so. You say u do research and in that line u speak based on facts right not based on hearsay?? so why don't u do a research on this subject i have done that by speaking to older and younger people still in the line of priesthood and there is no such text stating a shudra should always be a shudra.

This Brahmin allowing somebody's sins because of him being kshatriya is not only hypothetical but also over simplification of things. If u know there is no concept of confession box in Dharmic religion, he can help u only when u repent and want to do something about the sin. Eating meat and drinking are not sins dear who said that tell me ?? they are considered bad thats it.

You know i am a Brahmin i drink happily eat meat (i don't tell my parents only, my friends and my wife knows this) i have questioned many priests on this point is there any written code forbidding me. There is none as far as i have tried. The only logical explanation i got was that since vedas are mainly musical that is high and low notes in it. To learn properly ur tongue should be light and not heavy. It was considered that eating meat can cause ur tongue to harden making it difficult to learn them. Even Kshatriyas when in Gurukula were always on veggie diet only till they learned their studies.

These little little reasons were slowly lost to time and have been given corrupted explanations. Yes i agree it is always about power now.

While trying to find explanations for these matters always go for multiple sources as u do in ur research studies krait, one can always be biased.

What I see here is two different scenarios exactly opposite to each other happening in today's India. Unlike UP,Bihar and some parts of Orissa where we have seen ghastly violence and discrimination against backward casts, Bengal experienced a very different situation. The folks from backward casts today have managed to come to the higher economy cluster of the society because of the reservation policy they have enjoyed over the last 60 years. When I was a student I used to see most teachers were from higher casts in the schools but today the thing is entirely different. The backward casts in bengal is no longer an economically deprived society here. I can view this as a great success in their economic uplift but what I can see is a slow degeneration too making its path.



I read a book where the traveller was making a parikrama around narmada river in 1952s. It was an amazing book to read. Once he was travelling with a group of Naga Sannyasis and there were many shudras among the nagas. I was astonished to read this. Reality is always stranger than fiction

Its always based on the conditions on ground yaar, u know there are people who still cling on to reservations even after three generations just because they are from that caste. In contrast there are people who reconginized the wrong in this, while in Mumbai at my workplace i met a girl from Bihar we were chit chatting on bus to work and discussing the same topic. She told me that she her two brothers entered colleges in general category even though having reservation as they were not only capable but had achieved enough money in case. I congratulated her father for this conscientiousness decision.

 

[KS]

yaar,..please dont make this into a bashing thread of anyone.

I feel all of us agree that the caste by-birth has outlived its utility, whatever it was, and its time for some reformation.

In that context, this is a very welcome move and every Hindu must extend his/her support to such social reforms.

 

[KRAIT]

@indushek I know he is a bigot. And do you know what was written earlier and after ? I meant he said that Shudra should remain Shudra. No tthe scriptures. I said what he thinks. An educated person.

I am not generalizing. You are getting wrong interpretation. I have talked to Sanyasis, Pandits and priests from Vrindavan, I have talked to Cult based priests which have formed their own version of Priesthood.

As for meat, do you know about Saatvik Bhojan ? Do you know about Falaahar ? Religion mixed with non-violence, healthy instructions etc.

Religion is a great tool to create order in population of so many people to avoid creating Chaos.

Kindly don't take me otherwise. We are misinterpreting each other.

 

[indushek]

@indushek I know he is a bigot. And do you know what was written earlier and after ? I meant he said that Shudra should remain Shudra. No tthe scriptures. I said what he thinks. An educated person.

I am not generalizing. You are getting wrong interpretation. I have talked to Sanyasis, Pandits and priests from Vrindavan, I have talked to Cult based priests which have formed their own version of Priesthood.

As for meat, do you know about Saatvik Bhojan ? Do you know about Falaahar ? Religion mixed with non-violence, healthy instructions etc.

Religion is a great tool to create order in population of so many people to avoid creating Chaos.

Kindly don't take me otherwise. We are misinterpreting each other.

Right then lets agree to disagree since we seem to be on different paths of issues. I never took u otherwise krait, i know u are a sane poster. Keep well buddy.

 

[KRAIT]

KS I am not bashing @indushek . He made valid points. I used wrong words to express my views that led to confusion.

I agree with him completely. But I also agree with the fact that Hinduism is distorted by many people to fit their own needs.

 

[indushek]

yaar,..please dont make this into a bashing thread of anyone.

I feel all of us agree that the caste by-birth has outlived its utility, whatever it was, and its time for some reformation.

In that context, this is a very welcome move and every Hindu must extend his/her support to such social reforms.

KS I am not bashing @indushek . He made valid points. I used wrong words to express my views that led to confusion.

I agree with him completely. But I also agree with the fact that Hinduism is distorted by many people to fit their own needs.

Don't worry buddy we all are cool, after all if not brothers of same family India who will argue with each other