Mob razes disputed property in Sialkot

[M. Sarmad]

If Muslims believe Qadiyanis are not Muslims then who is the state to tell them otherwise?
Is it not this idyllic state interfering in personal matters of religion then? Imposing the views of minority on majority and thus by tyranny of the state?

You of course are entitled to your opinion. I agree with Jinnah Sahib

"Ahmadis are Muslims if they say they are Muslims & NO ONE, not even the sovereign legislature has the right to say otherwise." - Jinnah (May 5, 1944)

 

[El Sidd]

You just labelled me Secular in your previous post. I never claimed that

I can retract that. No harm in that.
The state of Pakistan as it is, is secular and liberal to the desired limits as set by the fundamentals of Islam.
It is your political ideology that it is not and thus progressive muslims using religion as a tool? or is that false now

nahi nahi g doodh ki nadiaan beh rahi hain minorities kay liay saab PIA aur donald duck ki sazish hai .. i am seeing this since may 2009

shukar hai sirf 2009 tak baat rahi warna 1857 se shuru hojate

You of course are entitled to your opinion. I agree with Jinnah Sahib

"Ahmadis are Muslims if they say they are Muslims & NO ONE, not even the sovereign legislature has the right to say otherwise." - Jinnah (May 5, 1944)

Jinnah is dead and those who worship Jinnah are free to do so.

 

[M. Sarmad]

Jinnah is dead

"A man may die, nations may rise and fall, but an idea lives on .."

The idea of Pakistan was the brainchild of Jinnah. Jinnah has died but his idea is immortal.

those who worship Jinnah are free to do so.

No one worships Jinnah. What are you on about ?

 

[Maarkhoor]

"A man may die, nations may rise and fall, but an idea lives on .."

The idea of Pakistan was the brainchild of Jinnah. Jinnah has died but his idea is immortal.

We are Muslims and if Quaid's statement or wish is against Islam we will not follow him, instead will seek knowledge from Quran and Hadith and as per Quran and Sunnah Qadiani / Ahmadizz / Lahori Group are non-Muslims and their leader was heretic who died in his own shit.

 

[El Sidd]

"A man may die, nations may rise and fall, but an idea lives on .."

The idea of Pakistan was the brainchild of Jinnah. Jinnah has died but his idea is immortal.

Only Lord Almighty Allah is immortal.

Not even Bhutto and Jinnah was just a man in front of Bhutto.

No one worships Jinnah. What are you on about ?

Can Jinnah be wrong?

 

[M. Sarmad]

Can Jinnah be wrong?

Human beings are not perfect and never will be.... But Jinnah was definitely not wrong on this

We are Muslims and if Quaid's statement or wish is against Islam we will not follow him ...

And who gets to decide whether or not Jinnah's wishes were against Islam ? Mullahs ? The Majority ?

 

[El Sidd]

Human beings are not perfect and never will be.... But Jinnah definitely was not wrong on this

That is again your belief and your interpretation that he was not wrong. It does not make it the gospel truth.
Progressive Muslims debated on the matter in the parliament and settled it.

Just because now the minority has means i.e. resource and people high up that does not mean you can impose your progressive gospel truth and religious beliefs on those who do not believe this.

 

[M. Sarmad]

That is again your belief and your interpretation that he was not wrong. It does not make it the gospel truth.
Progressive Muslims debated on the matter in the parliament and settled it.
.

As I said earlier, you of course are entitled to your opinions and I am entitled to mine

I agree with Jinnah's opinion

 

[Maarkhoor]

And who gets to decide whether or not Jinnah's wishes were against Islam ? Mullahs ? The Majority ?

We don't need Mullah to understand basic concepts / teachings of Islam.

Anyone who is not agreed on Khatm e Nabuwat is kafir / non-Muslim. it is hard for you to understand this basic thing?

 

[pak-marine]

shukar hai sirf 2009 tak baat rahi warna 1857 se shuru hojate



.

shukar karo 632 AD say nahi kar raha when the sects started emerging

 

[El Sidd]

shukar karo 632 AD say nahi kar raha when the sects started emerging

that is again your belief

 

[M. Sarmad]

We don't need Mullah to understand basic concepts / teachings of Islam.

Anyone who is not agreed on Khatm e Nabuwat is kafir / non-Muslim. it is hard for you to understand this basic thing?

You have every right to believe in whatever you want. And I'm inclined to agree with your belief ..... But I believe that neither I nor anyone else (including the State) has any right to DECLARE someone Kafir when he says/insists that he is a Muslim. That authority lies with Allah alone ... Jinnah actually refused to play God when he was asked to DECLARE Ahmadis Kafir stating that he was no one to declare someone a kafir who said that he was a Muslim ...

 

[RoadRunner401]

It seems that you are obssessed with India and do not want to discuss your beautiful Islamic Republic of Pakistan from where you have migrated for whatever reasons

Therefore bye and goodluck

regards

You as Indian on Pakistan defence forum telling me that I am obsessed with India really?

 

[Maarkhoor]

You have every right to believe in whatever you want. And I'm inclined to agree with your belief ..... But I believe that neither I nor anyone else (including the State) has any right to DECLARE anyone else a Kafir when he says he is a Muslim. That authority lies with Allah alone ... Jinnah actually refused to play God when he was asked to DECLARE Ahmadis Kafir stating that he was no one to declare someone a kafir who said that he was a Muslim ...

Before Qadianis / Ahmadi declared kafir there were 530 riots since 1947 and over 600 people killed and after the debate which Qadianis were given 72 hours to explain their position and when they failed in elected assembly then legislators pass this law and you cry me a river for that.

 

[M. Sarmad]

Before Qadianis / Ahmadi declared kafir there were 530 riots since 1947 and over 600 people killed and after the debate which Qadianis were given 72 hours to explain their position and when they failed in elected assembly then legislators pass this law and you cry me a river for that.

A bunch of corrupt politicians tried to play God ... !!