MMRCA aircrafts to be deployed to face chinese threat in North East !!

[koushik]

Why this reaction? I was only stating that India is and cannot be a match for China in the coming decades. Infact i think that overall the Chinese are closer to the US than India is to China.

Name me one truly complete weapon system that India manufactures? China has J-11B(which has indigenous WS-10 engine now), KJ-2000 AWACS, Type-99 tank, WZ-10 attack helicopter and Type-052C AESA destroyer. India simply cannot manufacture anything major at all. How can a country like India compete with the might of China? I see the gap between China and india actually growing in the coming decade, not narrowing.

Make no mistake, China is trying to be a near competitor to the US militarily by the end of this decade. It's military technology will be a close second to the US with all others trailing behind by 2020. Some of the systems that China has in the works are truly mind blowing in the likes of the J-20 Fighhter and the new generation PL-21D ramjet missile. This is a combination that is likely the scare the pants of even F-22 pilots as they cannot assume any subtantial superiority over the J-20/PL-21D combination.

India is decades behind China. I know that Indians can and should dream but trying to compare themselves against a much more technological advanced power like China is ridiculous. Like i have already said, smart Indians would concentrate on the economy and minimum deterrance than trying to compete with an economic and soon to be military behemoth across the Himalayas

Well even though India has quite a few indigenous projects but they are not xerox copies like chinese things (J-11= Su-27SK copy).Check the Kolkata class destroyer with the Revati 3D CAR AESA Radar,Akash SAM with Rajendra PESA Radar,HAL light combat helicopter,LCA Tejas MK-II,Shivalik frigates,Brahmaputra and godavari class frigates along with IAC-1,Nag ATGM.As far as 5th gen jets are concerned we are proud partners in the Sukhoi PAK FA/FGFA project.Bharat zindabaad.

 

[CardSharp]

Well even though India has quite a few indigenous projects but they are not xerox copies like chinese things (J-11= Su-27SK copy).Check the Kolkata class destroyer with the Revati 3D CAR AESA Radar,Akash SAM with Rajendra PESA Radar,HAL light combat helicopter,LCA Tejas MK-II,Shivalik frigates,Brahmaputra and godavari class frigates along with IAC-1,Nag ATGM.As far as 5th gen jets are concerned we are proud partners in the Sukhoi PAK FA/FGFA project.Bharat zindabaad.

heh

 

[koushik]

heh

I didnt get it,What did you try to tell me?

 

[LURKER]

he's trying to say we took the upper part from mirage and lower of gripen and combined them to make lca

 

[UKBengali]

Well even though India has quite a few indigenous projects but they are not xerox copies like chinese things (J-11= Su-27SK copy).Check the Kolkata class destroyer with the Revati 3D CAR AESA Radar,Akash SAM with Rajendra PESA Radar,HAL light combat helicopter,LCA Tejas MK-II,Shivalik frigates,Brahmaputra and godavari class frigates along with IAC-1,Nag ATGM.As far as 5th gen jets are concerned we are proud partners in the Sukhoi PAK FA/FGFA project.Bharat zindabaad.

The Kolkata destoyer has a IAI EL/M-2248 MF-STAR Multi-mission radar which is not manufactured in India.

Congrats to India on producing the Akash SAM and that is the first major weapon system that India has produced.

Now do not get me wrong, nothing makes me happier than seeig India clock an average of more than 7% GDP growth over the last decade but I wish that India would stop being so paranoid about China and realise that it should be investing every Rupee on things such as Infrastructure, Health and Education. China even now has defence spending around the 1.5% GDP level and it has substantially better infrastructure than India. India has no need to spend much above 1.5% in order to maintain it's territorial intregrity. Only a simple-minded person would think that India's current defence spending is stopping a Chinese attack. If China wanted to attack India, it would do so and would win whether India spent 1,2 or even 3% of GDP on defence. However lowering the percentage of GDP that India spends on defence would free up substantial funds to fight poverty.

India's greatest enemy is not China but the irrational fear of China

 

[dbc]

the reality it is never a loss for India... because India was never a big customer for US... Yeah if Russia or French closes the door yes it is a very very big loss for India... i hope you accept this..

The latest Airbus A380 has nearly 60% US content, you think the Rafale and Typhoon does not contain US technology.You think the machine tools and raw materials needed to manufacture the aircraft is entirely French or European?

A major portion of the billions you will pay the Europeans will end up in the US anyway, leaving India just as vulnerable to sanctions.

So yeah, all things considered it is India's loss.

Over the last few months, the French sales effort has been based on a misleading, if not fraudulent, claim that their plane involves only French content (rendering it free of meddlesome U.S. export controls). This is not the case. A DTSA analysis found a high level of U.S. content, including targeting systems, radar components and safety systems that will require U.S. licenses. - Charge d'Affaires Lisa Kubiske

 

[Zabaniyah]

Actually if you by figures ,use your lil head that Bangladesh is one of the poorest of all if you think 300millions India poor people are neglected then you again wrong ,when Britisher left this country our poverty level was 70% with education level is 30% bu we work hard and harder than our neighborhoods whose 60%population are still poor and education level close to 50% ,and these countries also sending there migrants to our country to enjoy our hard work and rights ....If you got money ,you are free to do anything ,if you don't then STFU is the best policy ...

*yawn*

Thanks, but this poor Bangladeshi here has working professional parents and myself starting a promising international career path.

And you bring up Bangladesh just because of my flag? Never did I say that Bangladesh is more superior than India unlike what many of your countrymen here are saying, even against Canada

You know what, do whatever you want with your money, its not our call, not even China's or America's. But note, there is corruption and grinding poverty in your country. Perhaps that one should have been addressed first other than your irrational fear of China? I mean, you guys are just beating about the bush over China, and spending billions.

There are many wealthy countries out there that are far ahead of India in every field, and they do not even invest a single penny in the development of nuclear weapons.

The arrogance of many (not all) of the Indian posters here just astounds me. I am glad Indians for the most part are not like that.

But then again, its your call.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

There are many wealthy countries out there that are far ahead of India in every field, and they do not even invest a single penny in the development of nuclear weapons.

Correct.

Uncle Sam is their insurance.

Pacts!

You find Canada a superior Nation?

But note, there is corruption and grinding poverty in your country. Perhaps that one should have been addressed first other than your irrational fear of China? I mean, you guys are just beating about the bush over China, and spending billions.

And your country is bountiful with bushels lying askew for the picking?

Your country is corruption free?

Which country is corruption free?

I have seen your verbal crutch 'astounded' in some posts about Indians. May i say I am astounded that you have joined Rand and have given such an indepth study of threat perceptions!

Irrational?

You should be the head of SIPRA and RUSI rolled in one!

 

[ramu]

Do you have anything subtantial to counter any of my points rather than baseless assumptions about how long I have been in the UK and what i have done for my country? You know precisely zero about my personal situation so please refrain from uninformed comments.

I am simply stating that India cannot match China in any field in the next few decades and it should concentrate on the economy and minimum deterrence rather than a huge arms race with a country with much greater financial and military capacity. It is hard for Indians to digest that their country is very far behind China but facts are facts. Better to have a accurate view of the situation rather than live in a fantasy world.

If you read what I have written, you would get what I am saying. Dont rant and throw your toys and sound like this. I never said we are better than China or anything to that effect.

I just said India is trying to counter China just like China counters the US.

Note: If you replace China with US and India, with China, your argument still remains valid. About your personal situation, why not talk about Bangladesh for a change in the relevant section and start comparing with China or for that matter India. It is easy to judge and suggest what actions somebody else need to take. It is tough to walk the talk.

 

[ramu]

*yawn*

Thanks, but this poor Bangladeshi here has working professional parents and myself starting a promising international career path.

And you bring up Bangladesh just because of my flag? Never did I say that Bangladesh is more superior than India unlike what many of your countrymen here are saying, even against Canada

You know what, do whatever you want with your money, its not our call, not even China's or America's. But note, there is corruption and grinding poverty in your country. Perhaps that one should have been addressed first other than your irrational fear of China? I mean, you guys are just beating about the bush over China, and spending billions.

There are many wealthy countries out there that are far ahead of India in every field, and they do not even invest a single penny in the development of nuclear weapons.

The arrogance of many (not all) of the Indian posters here just astounds me. I am glad Indians for the most part are not like that.

But then again, its your call.

You are just a troll in my book. Endless rhetoric of the same thing. Show me one post saying we are superior to China in terms of economy or military strength. Get a life. About Canada, keep it out of this thread. We have had enough diversions.

We are wasting millions or billions but that is about 3% of GDP. For a change look at how much UK spends on defence as a % of GDP and you will know you are BSing.

 

[MumbaiIndians]

The latest Airbus A380 has nearly 60% US content, you think the Rafale and Typhoon does not contain US technology.You think the machine tools and raw materials needed to manufacture the aircraft is entirely French or European?

A major portion of the billions you will pay the Europeans will end up in the US anyway, leaving India just as vulnerable to sanctions.

So yeah, all things considered it is India's loss.

Typical american arrogance. No wonder, India doesn't trust USA for MRCA.

I think americans should not be so greedy. World is big, you can't have everything your way. Maybe its time for you to grow up in new realities of this world?

If you lost one MRCA, its not end of the world like Indian PM said. So, take a chill guys. We had enough of rona-dhona over outdated f-18 crap.

 

[ramu]

The latest Airbus A380 has nearly 60% US content, you think the Rafale and Typhoon does not contain US technology.You think the machine tools and raw materials needed to manufacture the aircraft is entirely French or European?

A major portion of the billions you will pay the Europeans will end up in the US anyway, leaving India just as vulnerable to sanctions.

So yeah, all things considered it is India's loss.

So why can't you just go ahead any enjoy the millions or billions instead of derailing this thread. This thread is not about US for all the Us centric users. You have lost the MMRCA. Just accept it. We all know 10 billion dollars is peanuts to you.. bla bla bla.

And we will worry about the sanctions when they are imposed. The last time they were imposed, it was voluntarily removed by US as it was not helping.\

 

[ramu]

heh

The wingspan between Saab Viggen and Tejas is a good 8 feet. India has done a great job in making the body of Saab Viggen so small. Good job at copying ...

 

[UKBengali]

If you read what I have written, you would get what I am saying. Dont rant and throw your toys and sound like this. I never said we are better than China or anything to that effect.

I just said India is trying to counter China just like China counters the US.

Note: If you replace China with US and India, with China, your argument still remains valid. About your personal situation, why not talk about Bangladesh for a change in the relevant section and start comparing with China or for that matter India. It is easy to judge and suggest what actions somebody else need to take. It is tough to walk the talk.

Ouch, looks like I have hit a raw nerve somewhere!

I know precisely what you were trying to say in between making assumptions about me which did not help anyone. The fact of the matter is that there is no way that India can try to counter China by making India into the biggest market for the world's arm's merchants. Keeping your population in unneccessary poverty while 10 billion dollar contracts are given to one arms manufacture after another will not create a strong country. What will make India strong is having a healthy and educated population. This requires greater investment in Infrastructure, Health and Education and it is not happening because too much money is being spent on foreign arms. To see how China has reached it's current level, please take the time to browse the data on the lower levels of GDP it has devoted to it's military over the last 2 decades as opposed to India. Even now India spends around 1% more of it's GDP on defence compared to China. In a nutshell, an extremely poor country like India is diverting development spending towards defence that make it no more secure.

Now I know Bangladesh is also an extremely poor nation but at least it recognises this - it could easily order 150 JF-17s from China but that would mean the poor would suffer even more than now. I would also be having a go at Bangladesh if it devoted the same proportion of it's resources to the military like India is doing.

 

[Urbanized Greyhound]

The fact of the matter is that there is no way that India can try to counter China by making India into the biggest market for the world's arm's merchants. Keeping your population in unneccessary poverty while 10 billion dollar contracts are given to one arms manufacture after another will not create a strong country. What will make India strong is having a healthy and educated population. This requires greater investment in Infrastructure, Health and Education and it is not happening because too much money is being spent on foreign arms.

Surprising that some members still assume that this is not being done already.

A simple cross-check on 3 factors will clear all misconceptions ----

1) India's percent of GDP that it spends on defense

2) The quantity of adversarial forces India has to defend against on both borders

3) and the number of schemes that India invests in with regard to poverty allevation, literacy , development ...and the rate at which certain sectors in our economy is growing .

All those guys above , making point after point of assumptions , sallies , innuendos and what not ...

My humble request --please read up a bit more on these issues and the exact figures involved before venturing into such territories ....