Mistral row: France risks losing Rafale contract in India

[Etilla]

Is there any section named "JOKES"...

Bangladesh Defence Forum

 

[Indischer]

It is pretty much guaranteed that the US will blocked us for F-16 or F-18, but if French is no different then what is the point ?

Might as well go with the cheapest & best option i.e. F-18 which as the same capability as Rafale but 1/3 the price.

It is much better if we start pouring in funds for the AMCA and rope in Japan as a partner.

The difference is in the fact that France does not see India and Russia in similar light. Russia's actions have direct repercussions on Europe's energy security and stability, while India's actions in it's theatre of influence does not faze the French in a similar way.

We've to also look at their record so far with India. It's blemish-free AFAIK (even if on the expensive side). If nuclear tests couldn't prompt them to cut back on their commitments, they are trustworthy IMO.

 

[Astra-2013]

Ye problem to hamesha rahegi. as long as we cannot develop and manufacture our own.

russia ne bhi to nak me dam kar rakha hai. kabhi price increase kar dete , kabhi defective item deliver karte hai, ab PAK FA ka naya problem

 

[Sahasranama]

The difference is in the fact that France does not see India and Russia in similar light. Russia's actions have direct repercussions on Europe's energy security and stability, while India's actions in it's theatre of influence does not faze the French in a similar way.

We've to also look at their record so far with India. It's blemish-free AFAIK (even if on the expensive side). If nuclear tests couldn't prompt them to cut back on their commitments, they are trustworthy IMO.

You are being silly and wilfully blind or extremely NAIVE.

It does not matter how France see's us, what matters is how much they are committed to a contract.

How much they value their WORD.

Just becuase our Nuke test did not bother them yesterday, it does not mean it will not bother them TOMORROW. What if the join the SCO ? What then ?

The ONLY thing that matter is how much you keep you word. Everything else is mutable.

 

[TimeTraveller]

Bangladesh Defence Forum

HAHA..you are amazing sir...

 

[Indischer]

You are being silly and wilfully blind or extremely NAIVE.

It does not matter how France see's us, what matters is how much they are committed to a contract.

How much they value their WORD.

Just becuase our Nuke test did not bother them yesterday, it does not mean it will not bother them TOMORROW. What if the join the SCO ? What then ?

The ONLY thing that matter is how much you keep you word. Everything else is mutable.

It also matters to whom they gave their word to. Were the Russians and French allies in any way prior to the deal? Has France backed any similar actions of Russia before their latest Ukrainian sojourn? If the answer to these is NO, then it can be assumed that a tentative push towards better ties through a military sale just got blown away, nothing more.

I'd take my chances with the French any day over the Americans w.r.t such deals.

 

[Sahasranama]

It also matters to whom they gave their word to. Were the Russians and French allies in any way prior to the deal? Has France backed any similar actions of Russia before their latest Ukrainian sojourn? If the answer to these is NO, then it can be assumed that a tentative push towards better ties through a military sale just got blown away, nothing more.

I'd take my chances with the French any day over the Americans w.r.t such deals.

LOL....is that how we operate in real life ? ...... you will remain faithful to you wife only when she is young and good looking ? ...else you can break your promise with her ?

What about bank loans ? you will repay loans from certain banks and not from others ?

Ukraine did not have any defence pact with France. Russia action on Ukraine was a bilateral one. France had no business getting involved.

You are either a RELIABLE supplier or you ARE NOT. There is NO middle ground here. No Grey area.

Either you are a man of your word in ALL circumstances, or you are not. A man who changes his word when circumstances change is not a man of his word, he is an opportunist.

A Friend who changes his friendship when you are having a hard time is called a "fair weathered friend", not a reliable friend.

If you understand Game Theory try to view it using the game theory variables. Then the decision becomes as clear as daylight.

You may be willing to take a "chance" with the French, but Logic and Rational though dictates that if a nation does not honour their word when the circumstances change, it will never honour their word when the circumstances changes again.

In international politics circumstances changes ALL the time.

 

[$@rJen]

That is true. This decision will be watched closely by India and will certainly affect the deal.

If France is going to buckle under pressure why go for French a/c ? Might as well go for the much cheaper F-16 !!!! or even F-18.

In this world Reputation is everything.

And you think US wouldn't do the same France is doing??? F-16 no F'ing way we have better plane with us than that, F-18 again US is not reliable.. For France, India and Russia are not the same....

 

[Sahasranama]

And you think US wouldn't do the same France is doing??? F-16 no F'ing way we have better plane with us than that, F-18 again US is not reliable.. For France, India and Russia are not the same....

I have already answered this question. Refer to my earlier posts.

 

[Valkyrie]

That is true. This decision will be watched closely by India and will certainly affect the deal.

If France is going to buckle under pressure why go for French a/c ? Might as well go for the much cheaper F-16 !!!! or even F-18.

In this world Reputation is everything.

I dont think military planners in India would want to buy F-16's solely for the reason that Pakistan has been operating these air crafts for over 3 decades now and has a lot of experience with this platform, something India will definitely be uncomfortable with. I'm no expert but logic dictates India would go for Eurofighter Typhoon if this deal fails to materialize. It was IAF's second most favored bid when tenders were placed and there's hardly any reason to believe anything has changed.

 

[Sahasranama]

I dont think military planners in India would want to buy F-16's solely for the reason that Pakistan has been operating these air crafts for over 3 decades now and has a lot of experience with this platform, something India will definitely be uncomfortable with. I'm no expert but logic dictates India would go for Eurofighter Typhoon if this deal fails to materialize. It was IAF's second most favored bid when tenders were placed and there's hardly any reason to believe anything has changed.

If anything, the EF is less reliable and comes with more strings attached than the Rafale. Compared to EF, Rafale is more reliable. However the word "reliable" has now become subjective, and not objective.

 

[$@rJen]

Relax guys...

I have already answered this question. Refer to my earlier posts.

Russian actions with Ukraine bilateral ??? you kidding me right??? Taking a part of country creating mess in Eastern Ukraine with rebels is what you call bilateral??

Ukraine is the strategic place and if Ukraine wants to be more involved with EU than Russia then that's non of Russian's Business (i'm not justifying what west did) and if Ukraine asks west and EU for help then France really has business to deal with in this matter

Reliable ??? there's no one not even Russia... so cancelling this deal to give it to others is not an option ,,,, Plus you're suggesting to hand over the deal to mother of all non reliable state!!!! how stupid is that??? have you not know anything about the American??

And stop being an emotional..... there's no reliable person all we can take is calculated risks, its about choosing less risks and that's exactly what India did, Typhoon is sold by four countries, if one country doesn't agree then we're at problem...F-18 i already gave the answer... and Grippen is inferior.. Su-35 high operational costs + we ordered Super Sukhois which is almost similar to su-35...

We've so many deal with France.. Subs, upgrading mirag and missiles now rafale ... I don't think so they'll give away 30Billion + for American pressure..... ya and like he said India and France relation is very good than France and Russia.... in fact Russia is their Enemy

 

[Sahasranama]

Relax guys...


Russian actions with Ukraine bilateral ??? you kidding me right??? Taking a part of country creating mess in Eastern Ukraine with rebels is what you call bilateral??

Ukraine is the strategic place and if Ukraine wants to be more involved with EU than Russia then that's non of Russian's Business (i'm not justifying what west did) and if Ukraine asks west and EU for help then France really has business to deal with in this matter

Reliable ??? there's no one not even Russia... so cancelling this deal to give it to others is not an option ,,,, Plus you're suggesting to hand over the deal to mother of all non reliable state!!!! how stupid is that??? have you not know anything about the American??

And stop being an emotional..... there's no reliable person all we can take is calculated risks, its about choosing less risks and that's exactly what India did, Typhoon is sold by four countries, if one country doesn't agree then we're at problem...F-18 i already gave the answer... and Grippen is inferior.. Su-35 high operational costs + we ordered Super Sukhois which is almost similar to su-35...

We've so many deal with France.. Subs, upgrading mirag and missiles now rafale ... I don't think so they'll give away 30Billion + for American pressure..... ya and like he said India and France relation is very good than France and Russia.... in fact Russia is their Enemy

1. Stop going hyper. First read my earlier post. Second understand the sarcasm in it.

2. Do you know the meaning of the word 'bilateral' ? it means between two countries. No space for 3rd country.

3. So far France has been Very Expensive, but Reliable. That has changed now. This is the fist time France has gone back on their word. France is still playing if safe by saying the delivery is "delayed" not cancelled. Which is why everybody is watching closely.

4. If no one is reliable then it is foolish to pour down 20 Billion $ or more to do business with them. The ONLY alternative is to build it on your own, which is what we did with Missiles.

5. Tomorrow if we join SCO there is no guarantee that France will continue to have good relationship with us. That is just ONE example. There could be a million other perpetuation combination of geo strategic issues that can create problems and cause France to become unreliable again.

 

[Valkyrie]

If anything, the EF is less reliable and comes with more strings attached than the Rafale. Compared to EF, Rafale is more reliable. However the word "reliable" has now become subjective, and not objective.

Could you please elaborate what are these threads you're talking about. I wana know why IAF preferred Rafale over Typhoon. Thank you.

 

[Sahasranama]

Could you please elaborate what are these threads you're talking about. I wana know why IAF preferred Rafale over Typhoon. Thank you.

It was called the MMRCA competition.

First part was Technical evaluation and both Rafale and Typhoon cleared the evaluation.

Second part was Cost and L1 got to be the winner. (Lowest price)