Missile Strike Above LOC

[airomerix]

What if i tell you that you can also be wrong....Maybe if one looks closely he will see two contrails, one in start of the footage and one at about 0.10.

Maybe yes. The second contrail does seem like coming in from the above. I give you that!

Since the target aircraft was below 350 AGL it is humanely possible to see the missile trail for a 'short while'.

And the missile trail in video at 0.10 is pretty short as we all can see.

I think its settled.

 

[Talon]

@Arsalan this guy is displaying intellectual dishonesty by cherrypicking quotes from an unofficial document. Here is the document he is citing:

http://www.zaretto.com/sites/zarett...data/AIM120C5-Performance-Assessment-rev2.pdf

and this is the front page:



It is analysis done by ordinary citizens based on publicly available data. And Mr airomerix has cited the information specifically from a section titled '5. Example Loft scenarios'. The same document also contains information about performance in level flight.

And this is where I lose patience and you say I am getting personal. This is dishonesty and should be dealt with severely. It also brings to question other claims this person has been making on the forum.



Because maybe you have a radar lock but not a heat signature lock. Or you are simply out of WVRs?

I have the answer but I am not going to because this thread has gone victim to ego and proving "I know the best".Hell people are posting in different colors and sizes just to make their statement look prominent and best.Everyone wants to prove "i am the expert here".Bachon wali herkten.

Yes in an ideal situation but what if tables were turned, would the AMRAAM climb to over 30K feet and then home in on the target. !!

I am no expert but I know for sure an Amraam goes up,croses the troposphere and then comes back.As far as contrail is concerned,from what I have observed, there's one initially due to the booster but it vanishes after sometime but I am not sure about this part.

Hopefully last message in this thread,you guys have fun.

 

[CriticalThought]

I will try to keep this civil and you should behave. Really.

You have repeatedly failed to provide figures to support your claims. Fine granted. My figure of contrail visibility is 5000 feet short. My argument still stands that AMRAAM's flight envelope at lets say 70000 feet cannot be seen from the ground. The burden of proof lies on you. Please tell us how a humans naked eye is able to see contrails forming at 70000 feet?

I am not going to spoon feed information that is available easily on wikipedia. The page contains pictures showing contails all the way to the upper atmosphere including Mig-29s flying around their service ceiling. You on the other hand have made a claim that AMRAAM contrail is not visible at 70K ft. Where is your proof?

LOL. Since contrails are not sustainable at altitudes exceeding 40000 feet. So they cannot be seen right?

Thank you!

Keep making unsubstantiated statements and asking others for proof that is readily available.

This jet is anywhere between 25000 to 35000 feet. Whats your point? My point still stands

And this is your problem. You just know how to blantantly state 'Their contrails are visible for a very long range"

WHAT RANGE? STATE THE FACTS AND FIGURES! THATS HOW THE WORLD WORKS!

The object in my picture is at 50K+ ft because it is flying higher than commercial airliner traffic and away from the usual Sydney air traffic corridor. It is high enough that noise from its engine could not be heard when I took the picture.

You are increasingly displaying amateurish behavior in this discussion. You have no clue about real world contrail formation, and it is evident you have never taken interest in this phenomenon in real life. You have never actually looked at a ballistic missile test, you have no idea how quickly a ballistic missile flies, and how quickly it reaches the upper atmosphere, and how long and how far its exhaust plume is visible. I will break down this discussion into two parts:

1. Can contrails form and sustain at 40K+ ft? Yes, as anyone who has interest in aviation can readily tell you from actual experience. And you can find for yourself from picture and videos on the internet. Commercial pilots witness them at high altitude. Here is a video that shows exactly this. The commercial plane is flying at the normal 30K range and the contrail is higher than that.

2. Is AMRAAM contrail visible at 70K+ ft? First of all, you have not provided any proof that AMRAAM actually flies to 70K+ ft. You have also not shown that on 27th Feb, the AMRAAMs fired by PAF did go to 70K+ ft. But even if that is what happened, the visibility of a contrail depends on visual acuity.

https://www.livescience.com/33895-human-eye.html

The Earth's surface curves out of sight at a distance of 3.1 miles, or 5 kilometers. But our visual acuity extends far beyond the horizon. If Earth were flat, or if you were standing atop a mountain surveying a larger-than-usual patch of the planet, you could perceive bright lights hundreds of miles distant. On a dark night, you could even see a candle flame flickering up to 30 mi. (48 km) away.

 

[CriticalThought]

I have the answer but I am not going to because this thread has gone victim to ego and proving "I know the best".Hell people are posting in different colors and sizes just to make their statement look prominent and best.Everyone wants to prove "i am the expert here".Bachon wali herkten.


I am no expert but I know for sure an Amraam goes up,croses the troposphere and then comes back.As far as contrail is concerned,from what I have observed, there's one initially due to the booster but it vanishes after sometime but I am not sure about this part.

Hopefully last message in this thread,you guys have fun.

If you have the answer then you should share. This is not childish behavior. We as a nation are too gullible and ready to lap up whatever false information is fed to us by anyone. We need to question every single piece of information being fed for correctness. I shared this video earlier and it got deleted by @Arsalan

It shows both the AMRAAM and the AIM-9 being fired. The AMRAAM clearly follows a depressed trajectory here.

The truth is, when the FOX 3 is required to max out its target distance, it uses a lofted trajectory for energy management. But when a target is close, it goes for a direct flight path.

 

[maverick1977]

Wind man, God knows what you are saying here ?
anyway since you actually have no clue what you yourself have posted.....

View attachment 563025

Things are getting cleared seeing this pic ... one f16 coming back, one looping back ... dang how did u reach this conclusion ... ... mate this is major claim

 

[Telescopic Sight]

Things are getting cleared seeing this pic ... one f16 coming back, one looping back ... dang how did u reach this conclusion ... ... mate this is major claim

This picture was analysed by an Indian expert named Sameer Joshi on Twittter. Check him out.

@Telescopic Sight , are you Sameer Joshi or just copy pasting his fan boy material.

Are you completely drunk right now?

Of course I got this picture from Twitter, I only posted it here so that people know the actual facts, and not your foolish claims. What kind of fan boy are you , don't know what the contrails of a single engine jet and a twin engined jet looks like !!!

By the way, are you now pretending that the original photo in the 1st post is clicked by you? I don't see any credit attributed by you. So YOU CLICKED THE ORIGINAL PHOTO? IS THAT YOUR CLAIM? OTHERWISE SHOW SOME HONESTY AND ATTRIBUTE THE PHOTOGRAPHER.

And no, just to clarify , this photo is from the Pakistani side of the LOC. Not the Indian side.

PLEASE GO BACK AND ATTRIBUTE ALL THE STOLEN MATERIAL BY YOU TO THE ORIGINAL AUTHORS. DEFENCE.PK DOES NOT PERMIT THEFT AND PLAGIARISM.

PS : I ve noticed that the most knowledgeable members from Pakistan have a lot of contempt for the OP's stealing material , ignorant claims and lies. That's why more and more intelligent Pakistanis are calling you out. Only kids think you know something. That's your audience. Enjoy !

 

[Windjammer]

This picture was analysed by an Indian expert named Sameer Joshi on Twittter. Check him out.



Are you completely drunk right now?

Of course I got this picture from Twitter, I only posted it here so that people know the actual facts, and not your foolish claims. What kind of fan boy are you , don't know what the contrails of a single engine jet and a twin engined jet looks like !!!

As i said there was a time when you sounded sane but now you are off your rocker.... dimwit, you picked up the absurd explanation given by some one as retard as you and think it's the gospel truth. Lol.

By the way, are you now pretending that the original photo in the 1st post is clicked by you? I don't see any credit attributed by you. So YOU CLICKED THE ORIGINAL PHOTO? IS THAT YOUR CLAIM? OTHERWISE SHOW SOME HONESTY AND ATTRIBUTE THE PHOTOGRAPHER.

You must have been at the end of the Que when dear God was sharing brains, how can i claim to the image taken from the Indian side while i am sitting in UK.

And no, just to clarify , this photo is from the Pakistani side of the LOC. Not the Indian side.

No genius, the image was taken from Nowshera sector on the Indian side of LOC.

PLEASE GO BACK AND ATTRIBUTE ALL THE STOLEN MATERIAL BY YOU TO THE ORIGINAL AUTHORS. DEFENCE.PK DOES NOT PERMIT THEFT AND PLAGIARISM.

Didn't you read the rules when you posted that Sameer Joshi's art work.

PS : I ve noticed that the most knowledgeable members from Pakistan have a lot of contempt for the OP's stealing material , ignorant claims and lies. That's why more and more intelligent Pakistanis are calling you out. Only kids think you know something. That's your audience. Enjoy !

Ahhh,,,,,now comes the heartburn from some one who himself is hiding behind a fake ID.
BTW, since when have you promoted yourself to be a Dalal and a Judge here.....or may be you are just hurt and embarrassed that you have been caught out trying to pass some fan artwork as some credible source.

 

[Jango]

The truth is, when the FOX 3 is required to max out its target distance, it uses a lofted trajectory for energy management. But when a target is close, it goes for a direct flight path.

The most important comment from the last few pages.

 

[Ultima Thule]

Oh no, this hurts the most ! Pakistanis slapping the OP

And if are in the UK ( which you are not , as you have been caught fibbing earlier ) , I am also in the US. ( which I am , as you can ask the MODS ). So how would I have taken the pic either?!?

And Sameer Joshi happens to a Mirage 2000 pilot from the IAF.

And you have yourself provided proof that you work in some canteen in Pakistan.

SO TELL ME, DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY ENGINES AN F-16 HAS .
ASK SOMEONE, SINCE YOU DON'T KNOW. ALSO , ASK HOW MANY ENGINES A SUKHOI MKI HAS.
NOW LOOK AT THE PIC AGAIN, DON'T BE DRUNK ON MURREE RUM THIS TIME


Go ahead, make a bigger fool of yourself. OLDEST CHILD LABORER OF THIS FORUM.....YOU.

@ waz @The Eagle @Horus he is continuously insulting/abusing/trolling PDF respected elite please band @Telescopic Sight permanently thanks

 

[Telescopic Sight]

PDF respected elite please band

Respected ??

BAND ??????

Are you in Karachi or Lahore ? Change your flags, please.

 

[Arsalan 345]

Any new information is good.we lack information specially how a missile works.any member who is trying to bring knowledge is highly appreciated.we must not fight like kids here.contribute here and stay positive.we shouldn't fight with our country men like this.stay on the topic,try to find evidence from picture and videos and don't fight.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Maybe yes. The second contrail does seem like coming in from the above. I give you that!

Since the target aircraft was below 350 AGL it is humanely possible to see the missile trail for a 'short while'.

And the missile trail in video at 0.10 is pretty short as we all can see.

I think its settled.

The world in general losing patience!!! They want everything to be dead fast.....

We will not think to retaliate, we will retaliate - Pak PM

 

[Ultima Thule]

Respected ??

BAND ??????

Are you in Karachi or Lahore ? Change your flags, please.

show your real flag troll, i am from Karachi, and living in Maryland USA @Telescopic Sight

 

[messiach]

P3I updated AMRAAMS are not restricted snap-up or snap-down. Snap-up has a better range & hit prognosis as airomerix hinted. We deployed snap-up BVRs against Su-mki.

In reality these weapons rise up about 15 degrees after launch and then continue more or less level. They do not come down from above the target.

 

[Major Sam]

P3I updated AMRAAMS are not restricted snap-up or snap-down. Snap-up has a better range & hit prognosis as airomerix hinted. We deployed snap-up BVRs against Su-mki.

Can you please explain more. Is this is one mode of many in AMRAAM or its model specific thing. I mean snap up and snap down behaviour of BVR.