misfortune of Pakistan - Why are we beggers ?

[SivHp]

And the near root cause of the problems.
This is a MUST WATCH and then a MUST ACT too.
http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnGpHGNJuiA

Can some one help find out the people who did this survey ;
I would want to contribute to this.

OMG..u will have to go a long long way to catch up with the times...

 

[CAPTAIN AMERICA]

Religion has a surprisingly high correlation with poverty, according to a Gallup survey conducted in more than 100 countries. The more poverty a nation has, the higher the “religiosity” in that nation. In general, richer countries are less religious than poorer ones.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/142727/religiosity-highest-world-poorest-nations.aspx

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

The misery of Pakistan can be put down to a few factors...

1. A non implementation of its ideological roots i.e Islam... Pakistan like the rest of the screwed up countries such as India implements partial capitalism... We as a nation are confused about what we need to do with ourselves...

2. A corrupt elite represented by leaders who are basically dacoits including the civil administration/government/feudal landlords/brainless Generals in the military...

3. Slave mentality...

 

[nForce]

The misery of Pakistan can be put down to a few factors...

1. A non implementation of its ideological roots i.e Islam... Pakistan like the rest of the screwed up countries such as India implements partial capitalism... We as a nation are confused about what we need to do with ourselves...

2. A corrupt elite represented by leaders who are basically dacoits including the civil administration/government/feudal landlords/brainless Generals in the military...

3. Slave mentality...

Is Islam against Capitalism???

I personally think,the problem with Pakistan is not due to non implementation of Islam,rather its due to over implementation,something that took its full shape under the regime of one dictator of Pakistan,Zia ul Haq.Another dictator of Pakistan Pervez Musharraf,understood the problem and tried to cleanse the country from the radicalism which has deep roots in Pakistan.

Following one religion is one thing,having a radical and thereby extremist outlook is completely different and destructive in the long run.Musharraf tried to control the many madrashas in Pakistan,which though meant to be schools,were actually the primary building block of radicals.Many of these people taught in the madrashas went on to become Jihadi/terrorists in their life.While these young people may be quite satisfied with what they are doing,I don't really see how they are contributing to the economy or society of their own country.

I am of the opinion,that religion can serve a human being,but religion is never meant to drive a country.People can take give examples of Saudi Arabia,but then not every country is sitting over a mountain of gold.Pakistan can follow the model of Turkey.

Since independence,Pakistan basically had 2 problems,in relevance to the topic.

1.Pakistan never actually tried to stand on its own.Pakistan had let others affect its policies a bit too much.Pakistan entered into military alliance with USA in return of technology,capital,investment,trade etc. and became completely dependent on them.US Airforce has been using Pakistani airbases since the 1960s.That can be a good indicator.
Another country,upon which Pakistan is grossly dependent,starting from milit6ary supply to trade is China.Relations are indeed good,and Pakistan should do more in this case,without letting China take advantage of Pakistan the way USA is doing.

2.Second problem,is the India Phobia.Its difficult to explain and much more difficult to address.It is a common idea in the Pakistani public that India stands for everything that is against Pakistan,and India wants to disintegrate Pakistan.Most of the foreign policies,educational policies,social stigma,is actually based on this India phobia.This phobia gave many Pakistani people a perfect opportunity to vent out their anger,to really accuse somebody,to use as a kind of binding force among like minded people.But then this very phobia has also been rampantly used by the politicians of the country to gain immense support and popularity.It has been misused by the politicians to change the focus from more pressing social issues like infrastructure,employment etc to something that really boils your blood.


In order to have peace and development,there has to be order first,scope for independent and rational thinking and a society devoid of religious bias and social stigma.

 

[Sinnerman108]

Is Islam against Capitalism???

YES, most definitely yes.
Any provision to block / squeeze the flow of commodities or money is extremely disliked in Islam.
The principle is simple " God made the earth, and God owns all wealth ( agriculture, minerals) and God created all men free, so why should humans squeeze other humans ?

I personally think,the problem with Pakistan is not due to non implementation of Islam,rather its due to over implementation,something that took its full shape under the regime of one dictator of Pakistan,Zia ul Haq.Another dictator of Pakistan Pervez Musharraf,understood the problem and tried to cleanse the country from the radicalism which has deep roots in Pakistan.

You are too careless in using the term "dictator"
You can call them Military ruler, but you can not qualify any of them as dictators.
The problem of Pakistan is not the over implementation of Islam; not at all.
Islam has never been implemented.
Problem of Pakistan is the gap of understanding between the rulers and the ruled.
The people of Pakistan need Islam to be implemented,
however that would threaten the feudal system and thus the rulers play hypocrisy.

I am of the opinion,that religion can serve a human being,but religion is never meant to drive a country.People can take give examples of Saudi Arabia,but then not every country is sitting over a mountain of gold.Pakistan can follow the model of Turkey.

Incorrect. Open another thread and I can prove otherwise.

Since independence,Pakistan basically had 2 problems,in relevance to the topic.

The problem is ONE and just ONE;
Feudal system and of land reforms right from the beginning.

 

[CAPTAIN AMERICA]

The misery of Pakistan can be put down to a few factors...

1. A non implementation of its ideological roots i.e Islam... Pakistan like the rest of the screwed up countries such as India implements partial capitalism... We as a nation are confused about what we need to do with ourselves...

2. A corrupt elite represented by leaders who are basically dacoits including the civil administration/government/feudal landlords/brainless Generals in the military...

3. Slave mentality...

Can you provide any example of a country that solved its problems by becomming more religious, more Islamic, more Christian.

 

[mughaljee]

Pakistan is a begger because it's institutions are weak and corrupted

very very rightly said.

 

[Developereo]

Religion has a surprisingly high correlation with poverty, according to a Gallup survey conducted in more than 100 countries. The more poverty a nation has, the higher the “religiosity” in that nation. In general, richer countries are less religious than poorer ones.
Religiosity Highest in World's Poorest Nations

Religion doesn't cause poverty, rather it's the reverse: religion provides solace to the 'have nots'. Most religions downplay the importance of worldly, material goods and focus on non-tangible 'assets' like happiness and inner peace. Even in rich countries, poorer people tend to be more religious.

Coming to Pakistan, the blame doesn't lie in any one corner. The fact is that there is a tacit understanding in Pakistan between the oligarchs, the miliary and the middle class. The oligarchs (feudal and otherwise) get to plunder the country periodically, the military makes sure its own are taken care of, and the middle class gets to cheat on their taxes. Complaining about corruption and government ineptitude is a national past-time at dinner tables throughout Pakistan, but nobody is willing to take the first step and pay their honest share of taxes (unless forced to). The government continues to beg around the world while real-estate prices are booming throughout the country and business is just fine at luxury car dealierships in Karachi.

 

[CAPTAIN AMERICA]

Religion doesn't cause poverty, rather it's the reverse: religion provides solace to the 'have nots'. Most religions downplay the importance of worldly, material goods and focus on non-tangible 'assets' like happiness and inner peace. Even in rich countries, poorer people tend to be more religious.

Coming to Pakistan, the blame doesn't lie in any one corner. The fact is that there is a tacit understanding in Pakistan between the oligarchs, the miliary and the middle class. The oligarchs (feudal and otherwise) get to plunder the country periodically, the military makes sure its own are taken care of, and the middle class gets to cheat on their taxes. Complaining about corruption and government ineptitude is a national past-time at dinner tables throughout Pakistan, but nobody is willing to take the first step and pay their honest share of taxes (unless forced to). The government continues to beg around the world while real-estate prices are booming throughout the country and business is just fine at luxury car dealierships in Karachi.

I agree that religion provides solace to many people, most people, but when one religion is enforced by the goverment by laws rather then restrained by the goverment then it can cause all kinds of problems including poverty. For example if you were not a muslim would you prefer to live in Pakistan or Australia.

 

[iPhone]

Majority of the Pakistanis don't pay taxes, man or hardly any. Shouqet Tareen said tax revenue from small business owners (shopkeepers etc) from entire Pakistan is 7 caror ruppes a year, lol , can you believe it? And forget about the rich and the elites, they own entire cities and towns and pay like 5000 ruppees in taxes.
How do you expect the country to run like that then.

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

Can you provide any example of a country that solved its problems by becomming more religious, more Islamic, more Christian.

In short... I cannot... because such a "country" does not exist...

In detail consider this...

Islam is not merely a religion... rather it is a political ideology like communism and capitalism... It has its unique economic, social and ruling order which is not implemented in the world today by any state... These so called Islamic countries are actually a hinderance to the Islamic cause...

I ll give you an example to explain it better... since you ask this question politely and it seems you are thinking about this issue...

Someone on this thread mentioned land reforms... Now I totally agree with this...

The Feudal system in Pakistan, which has lasted since the time of Pakistan's creation has devastated the land and the people... Almost half of the cultivatable land in Pakistan is lying unused because the Feudal land lords i.e the children of the people who sided with the British to win these lands as a reward for treason against the people of India boast openly that they have so much land that tens of train station lie within their area... The Prophet of Islam stated (translation from Arabic) that any land that is not used for more than three years is taken by the state and given to someone else so that they can use it... This one principle can ensure that land does not remain wasted rather it is used in agriculture/commercial production... You can be my guest and imagine how much it will increase the total agricultural output of Pakistan...

See the problem is that people consider Islam as a mere religion... whereas the reality is that Islam is an ideology... You cannot compare it with Christianity...

As for the progress that you talk about... The reason why the west has progressed is because of secularism... there is no doubt about this... but they had to adopt secularism due to the history of oppression at the hand of the church... One has to remember that Islam has no problem with scientific progress... rather it was under the patronage of the Caliphs that scientists and inventors gave science and technology tremendous progress... our whole history is proof of this... I would recommend you watch the documentary "Islam Empire of Faith"

And interestingly the elite in America are acutely aware of this issue... There are now some think tanks who are stating that the way things are going and the way we Americans have shamed ourselves by acting not much differently than the barbarians who attacked America on 9/11... by raping Iraq for oil and achieving next to nothing in Afghanistan... It has created an atmosphere that Islam will come back as a political ideology... so they are already proposing how America would conduct business with an Islamic State upon its return...

Hope this answers the question... If you have other questions do ask...

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

I agree that religion provides solace to many people, most people, but when one religion is enforced by the goverment by laws rather then restrained by the goverment then it can cause all kinds of problems including poverty. For example if you were not a muslim would you prefer to live in Pakistan or Australia.

Pakistan is hardly an Islamic state... So obviously Australia...

But then in an Islamic state non Muslims are looked after...

The Prophet of Islam stated (translation from Arabic) that the one who harms a tax paying citizen of the Islamic State is like as if he has harmed Muhammad himself...

 

[Developereo]

For example if you were not a muslim would you prefer to live in Pakistan or Australia.

All other things being equal, Pakistan.

My decision to live in Australia is more about economics, family and quality of life.

Despite the media hype, most non-Muslim Pakistani citizens are doing just fine and are 100% integrated into mainstream Pakistani society.

In fact, I would go as far as to say that non-Muslims in Pakistan are treated better than the way Muslims are treated in some Western countries. The Pakistani media is not on a constant crusade to stigmatize them, they don't face organized harassment when they try to open a new church or temple, they don't face job discrimination because of their name, and Christian nuns can walk the streets of any major Pakistani city without being harassed.

 

[Tuahaa]

Religion has a surprisingly high correlation with poverty, according to a Gallup survey conducted in more than 100 countries. The more poverty a nation has, the higher the “religiosity” in that nation. In general, richer countries are less religious than poorer ones.
Religiosity Highest in World's Poorest Nations

Then why was the religious Islamic Empire so advanced back in its day? You know, I've spent most of my childhood in a western country... so I see why you'd think this way (the textbooks are bias when it comes to who-invented-what)

For proof,
1001 Inventions - Discover The Muslim Heritage In Our World | 1001 Inventions

---------- Post added at 02:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:57 PM ----------

All other things being equal, Pakistan.

My decision to live in Australia is more about economics, family and quality of life.

Despite the media hype, most non-Muslim Pakistani citizens are doing just fine and are 100% integrated into mainstream Pakistani society.

In fact, I would go as far as to say that non-Muslims in Pakistan are treated better than the way Muslims are treated in some Western countries. The Pakistani media is not on a constant crusade to stigmatize them, they don't face organized harassment when they try to open a new church or temple, they don't face job discrimination because of their name, and Christian nuns can walk the streets of any major Pakistani city without being harassed.

Having lived in Australia for 7 years, I second you

The main factor of why we moved to Dubai was religious freedom. Can't say enough of it- we were doing just fine there; the education was great.

But I am much happier here. I feel like I belong- nobody knew I was Muslim when I took my indonesian classes- some kids talked about Muslims as if we were dirty animals...

 

[Sinnerman108]

Do we have to drag religion into it ?

it's a simple question of administration and government ?

---------- Post added at 10:23 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:22 AM ----------

See if this works