Mirage, F-7PG and other combat aircrafts

[Beast]

The PAF F-7PG were build in the late 90s to early 2000. Their airframe is newer compare to Indian Bison.

Crank delta wing to improve low speed handling, better turn plus improved fuel capacity. Radar modernized. Glass cockpit. More powerful engine with better lifespan They are not the same as those Mig-21 in the 60s and 70s.

 

[weqi]

Rose upgraded mirages will be dedicated to PN. PG's will remain in service till 2020 as they r inducted in 2002. And simple F7 air guards wil b gifted to bangladesh .

you r saying gits ...........to ...................bAnGlaDeshi

why?

better to establish engineering institute and gift them all

 

[khanasifm]

USAF Eval of MiG-21

 

[nomi007]

 

[syed_yusuf]

The PAF F-7PG were build in the late 90s to early 2000. Their airframe is newer compare to Indian Bison.

Crank delta wing to improve low speed handling, better turn plus improved fuel capacity. Radar modernized. Glass cockpit. More powerful engine with better lifespan They are not the same as those Mig-21 in the 60s and 70s.

Forget to add strengthen air frame with new generation technology to produce crank delta wings. a technology similar to that of Mig29

 

[JohnWick]

Simply just wow!

are they are same jets

View attachment 17133

343 F-7PG when did its happen ?

Three years no one told ...the Answer....

 

[syed_yusuf]

F-7PG i snot same as F-7P/MP. there is a market technological difference in construction, engine, avionics and performance. newer wings, and better maneuverability, over all it is 83% better than F-7B.

PAF bought 57 of these birds in 2000-2003. arming 3 squadrons. armed with aim9 L/M8/9 and Grifo-7PG Mk2 radar among other avionics.

comparing them to Bison is not fair. mig-21 bison is basically Bis design build initially in 70's. and then upgraded in 2000's to bison with updated cockpit and avionics. in last 18 years PAF lost 4-6 F-7 PG. a very healthy track record.

PAF also bough FT-7PG. these a base vanila FT-7P with updated avionics. these are the one have crashed more than single seat F-7PG, which was build with modern construction techniques and skills. Its wings are from mig-29 technological base and material. I had alwasy argued as to why PAF F-7PG are not armed with ingle SD-10 under belly for AA missions. with rabta system, it should have really add a force to patrol.

 

[GriffinsRule]

I think we have lost around 12 single-seat PGs. And while it is a marked improvement over the baseline F-7M/P, and has a niche role to play in the air interdiction role, its not capable enough in the coming decade due to electronic obsolescence. Mind you, its upgraded but with technology that is still 30 years old.
PAF produced the first Grifo set in KARF in October 2000. The radar development started all the way back in 1990.

http://babriet.tripod.com/airforce/stat/statgrifo.htm

I googled and my decades old site came up in the results haha

 

[Keysersoze]

I think we have lost around 12 single-seat PGs. And while it is a marked improvement over the baseline F-7M/P, and has a niche role to play in the air interdiction role, its not capable enough in the coming decade due to electronic obsolescence. Mind you, its upgraded but with technology that is still 30 years old.
PAF produced the first Grifo set in KARF in October 2000. The radar development started all the way back in 1990.

http://babriet.tripod.com/airforce/stat/statgrifo.htm

I googled and my decades old site came up in the results haha

People (Especially on websites like these) need to widen their vision when thinking about aircraft like the F7. Typically there is a tendency to say "why are we flying these? We need to get super dooper new shiny thing to replace it"

The F7's have useful airframes. They can run point defence freeing up F16's and JF17's to attack. A F7 can shoot down aircraft if you use the right tactics. It has small rcs, has a radar of reasonable range for targeting and can be guided in by AWACS with it's nose cold.
It can in a pinch be used to attack ground targets. (Imagine all the super dooper planes are busy and you need to support ground troops in a hurry....)

 

[GriffinsRule]

People (Especially on websites like these) need to widen their vision when thinking about aircraft like the F7. Typically there is a tendency to say "why are we flying these? We need to get super dooper new shiny thing to replace it"

The F7's have useful airframes. They can run point defence freeing up F16's and JF17's to attack. A F7 can shoot down aircraft if you use the right tactics. It has small rcs, has a radar of reasonable range for targeting and can be guided in by AWACS with it's nose cold.
It can in a pinch be used to attack ground targets. (Imagine all the super dooper planes are busy and you need to support ground troops in a hurry....)

Yes I agree. Chaadar dekh kar pao phalanay wali baat. It is useful in the context of what PAF can afford, or rather not afford to discard, while keeping in mind IAF capabilities. We will always have to contend with technology as well as a numbers game. However, as IAF modernizes in the coming decade, these aircraft become a liability in terms of resource-effectiveness ratio. Everything that go into training, maintenance etc has a cost associated with it which at some point starts to overtake the benefit of keeping legacy aircraft around.
In the coming decade, we will see them soldier on just because there is a cost-benefit associated with having this platform but it is not the ideal solution. If Pakistan has say a 100B in its accounts, we would not be seeing this plane in PAF service. We make do with what we have and what we can afford and use them to the best of our abilities.

 

[Keysersoze]

Yes I agree. Chaadar dekh kar pao phalanay wali baat. It is useful in the context of what PAF can afford, or rather not afford to discard, while keeping in mind IAF capabilities. We will always have to contend with technology as well as a numbers game. However, as IAF modernizes in the coming decade, these aircraft become a liability in terms of resource-effectiveness ratio. Everything that go into training, maintenance etc has a cost associated with it which at some point starts to overtake the benefit of keeping legacy aircraft around.
In the coming decade, we will see them soldier on just because there is a cost-benefit associated with having this platform but it is not the ideal solution. If Pakistan has say a 100B in its accounts, we would not be seeing this plane in PAF service. We make do with what we have and what we can afford and use them to the best of our abilities.

Yes agreed. But the decade or so that these aircraft fly will reduce flight hours on better platforms. The IAF modernisation is still a mess. The PAF is managing it better and replaced the A5's and is getting rid of the F7P's faster than the opposition is getting rid of their MIG's. The PAF will have AESA platforms very soon and in greater numbers. And the IAF sanctioned sqaudron strength is down 10-12 below strength which will take decades to replace and they keep crashing aircraft (At least 30) AZM will be the game changer depending on how quickly it becomes usable. If past experience is to be taken into consideration then they will be probably go with an project already in existence.

 

[Armchair]

It could be interesting if PAF bought 50 F-7PGs second hand from China (China is retiring these in large numbers), had them rebuilt, with an AESA radar in the nose and modern avionics. Armed with two SD-10s and 2 PL-10s, they could serve as deadly point defense fighters, and act as close air support for the army.

100 such aircraft as the second line fighters for PAF would not be bad at all.

 

[Khafee]

343 F-7PG when did its happen ?

Simply just wow!



Three years no one told ...the Answer....

Guess the city and you will have your answer

 

[Imran Khan]

Guess the city and you will have your answer
View attachment 566537

i know this is UAE sir my question was 343 f-7PG sir . we dont have total even 180 of them combine p and PG .

 

[Armchair]

I think we have lost around 12 single-seat PGs. And while it is a marked improvement over the baseline F-7M/P, and has a niche role to play in the air interdiction role, its not capable enough in the coming decade due to electronic obsolescence. Mind you, its upgraded but with technology that is still 30 years old.
PAF produced the first Grifo set in KARF in October 2000. The radar development started all the way back in 1990.

http://babriet.tripod.com/airforce/stat/statgrifo.htm

I googled and my decades old site came up in the results haha

If electronics is the problem with the PGs, one could easily upgrade them. Granted, the biggest problem is the small nosecone is not suitable for a meaningfully sized radar, but this problem is solved thanks to new AESA GaN technology which is powerful even when compact.