Military Simulation - The Indo-Pak conflict - A hyperbole

[LeGenD]

your comparing Israel to pakistan
is that serious,
do you understand they have the best equipped and trained military in the.world bar usa,... and unlimited,supply of Intel.and war material from usa .
you fight israel you fight usa period
their traing western mentality you can never match neither can India.
poor defence

An Facepalm moment...

The man you are responding to is a Professional. Do you think he does not know about Israel and others? You completely missed his point as well.

What do your take of the term strategic depth in military terms?

IDF is a powerful (well-equipped) Force no doubt but Sir @PanzerKiel is 100% correct in pointing out that Israel is lacking in strategic depth.

Pakistan does have strategic depth however. This is smoking gun pointer for you in fact.

 

[CrazyZ]

Whole scenario ignores that Pakistan has tactical nuclear weapons at its disposable and will not hesitate to use them if the front lines crack. As for the navel and air assessments.....massively underestimates how many losses India will take, IMO.

 

[313ghazi]

It's utterly ridiculous.

1. It creates a fake tribal mountain entity to weaken Pakistan.

2. It assumes that Americans will die for someone else. Americans only die for oil.

3. It completely ignores Gwadar.

4. It completely ignores the fact we will have a much bigger submarine force than the Indians.

5. It ignores the fact we have cruise missiles mounted on ships, subs, planes and ground based to keep the Indian navy at bay.

6. It ignores the fact we have a huge amount of missiles ready to decimate Indian airbase as well as tactical nukes to be used on advancing forces.

7. It ignores the fact we have a huge jihadi population armed to the teeth willing to use AK's in traffic disputes. We won't be sat quietly during a war.

 

[CrazyZ]

It's utterly ridiculous.

1. It creates a fake tribal mountain entity to weaken Pakistan.

2. It assumes that Americans will die for someone else. Americans only die for oil.

3. It completely ignores Gwadar.

4. It completely ignores the fact we will have a much bigger submarine force than the Indians.

5. It ignores the fact we have cruise missiles mounted on ships, subs, planes and ground based to keep the Indian navy at bay.

6. It ignores the fact we have a huge amount of missiles ready to decimate Indian airbase as well as tactical nukes to be used on advancing forces.

7. It ignores the fact we have a huge jihadi population armed to the teeth willing to use AK's in traffic disputes. We won't be sat quietly during a war.

Not sure who ran the sim....but it probably uses outdated assessments of the forces. Maybe from 20 years ago.

 

[Arsalan345]

I believe we can Destroy entire india. we can destroy them even after full destruction of pakistan. how we can do this? it's pretty simple. people call me crazy but this is how they should think. Disperse! Annex! infiltrate!

Whole scenario is reality! we can't win without excellent air support of friends. Air domination is key but if friends join, others join enemy camp and that's it. Pakistan should think about new methods. Above is a slight hint of what Pakistan can do even after total destruction of Pakistan itself.

 

[CrazyZ]

I believe we can Destroy entire india. we can destroy them even after full destruction of pakistan. how we can do this? it's pretty simple. people call me crazy but this is how they should think. Disperse! Annex! infiltrate!

Whole scenario is reality! we can't win without excellent air support of friends. Air domination is key but if friends join, others join enemy camp and that's it. Pakistan should think about new methods. Above is a slight hint of what Pakistan can do even after total destruction of Pakistan itself.

Bio weapons....look how vulnerable they are.

 

[Genghis khan1]

Few points:

#1. Pakistan is not stupid to attack another country specially US when already in a conflict.

- US military will lose significant advantage once it’s satellites are down, infact it will be deadly and unwise for US to continue a war so far from US mainland.

#2. No mention or use of tactical nukes. (Wich means, there won’t be Indian victory in phase I)

#3. Pakistan will not wait that long (outskirts of Islamabad) to launch a nuclear strike. I think once major city like Lahore or Karachi is compromised, Nukes will start flying.

#4. Chinese are not fighting Pakistan’s war, nor is US fighting war for India.

#5. Russia will supply India, China will supply Pakistan.

#6. Mountain Alliance is some wishful horse-shit. Although Pakistan use this a warning and keep an eye on group like PTM.

#7. Muslims countries may support Pakistan in limited way, no one is fighting war for Pakistan. Some countries will also support India.

#8. Pakistan will be at disadvantage due to weak purchasing power. It will be hard for Pakistan to sustain a conflict longer than few months.

#9. Subs are no that easier to track and destroy, plus I wouldn’t be surprised if Pakistan is storing Nukes on Sub or another friendly country.

 

[SQ8]

Not sure who ran the sim....but it probably uses outdated assessments of the forces. Maybe from 20 years ago.

No those are fairly accurate - but put in handicaps like some mass defections and insurgency and any scenario will make Pakistan fail.

An Facepalm moment...

The man you are responding to is a Professional. Do you think he does not know about Israel and others? You completely missed his point as well.

What do your take of the term strategic depth in military terms?

IDF is a powerful (well-equipped) Force no doubt but Sir @PanzerKiel is 100% correct in pointing out that Israel is lacking in strategic depth.

Pakistan does have strategic depth however. This is smoking gun pointer for you in fact.

You’re going to burn out yourself before his copy pasting of usual troll points finishes off. His entire purpose is to post fantasies and derail threads for his own enjoyment - I don’t want this bhakt dungster on this thread.

 

[CrazyZ]

No those are fairly accurate - but put in handicaps like some mass defections and insurgency and any scenario will make Pakistan fail.

You’re going to burn out yourself before his copy pasting of usual troll points finishes off. His entire purpose is to post fantasies and derail threads for his own enjoyment - I don’t want this bhakt dungster on this thread.

This war game is useful in understanding the potential thinking of an opposing force. In general, Americans have over estimated India over the last 20 years. Pakistan was in worse shape 20 years ago...today India's advantage is still their....but not as big many Westerners think.

On the economics side, conventional economics will go out the door in a big war. Command economics does best when fighting in a big war. You think USSR and Germany stopped to consider exchange reserves in 1943?

 

[LeGenD]

- US military will lose significant advantage once it’s satellites are down, infact it will be deadly and unwise for US to continue a war so far from US mainland.

This is overreaching on your part. American military-purpose satellites are neither easy to jam and nor easy to destroy due to different factors. Kinetic ASAT attempts are tempting in theory but resulting debris can jeopardize additional satellites in the mix; debris does not differentiates between Friend and Foe. I can expand a lot on this theme but this discussion shall remain on track.

#4. Chinese are not fighting Pakistan’s war, nor is US fighting war for India.

This is more like it.

WE can expect China to provide satellite feeds to Pakistan, and USA to provide satellite feeds to India at minimum. China might do cyber attacks in India as well. USA might decide to deter China from taking significant steps of its own subject to how valuable India is in American calculus.

Typical reaction of the international community to Indo-Pak escalation(s) is to diffuse tensions between both sides. This happened not long ago.

 

[Genghis khan1]

This is overreaching on your part. American military-purpose satellites are neither easy to jam and nor easy to destroy due to different factors. Kinetic ASAT attempts are tempting in theory but resulting debris can jeopardize additional satellites in the mix; debris does not differentiates between Friend and Foe. I can expand a lot on this theme but this discussion shall remain on track.

I kept it simple. Yap, there will be space Debris. Satellite may have defense Mechanisms build into them. But in all out war, they are going down. Now US has thousands of additional (commercial) satellite in space, so who ever wants to start this game, Better have several thousand ASAT weapons. US most probably has a contingency plan to operate without Satellite.

This is more like it.

WE can expect China to provide satellite feeds to Pakistan, and USA to provide satellite feeds to India at minimum. China might do cyber attacks in India as well. USA might decide to deter China from taking significant steps of its own subject to how valuable India is in American calculus.

Typical reaction of the international community to Indo-Pak escalation(s) is to diffuse tensions between both sides. This happened not long ago.

Why are we discounting Russian involvement? Unless Indians are willing and ready to launch attack onto Chinese mainland, I don’t see US providing India with anything expect for support for already sold items. Only exception could be naval intel on Chinese boats in the area.

 

[vishwambhar]

You'll have a bigger submarine force than Indian navy? Can you provide sources to prove this claim?
Bydway huge jihadi population?

They have only 3 modern Agosta 90 Bs and 2 very old Agosta 70 versions.... With 8 modern AIP equipped Chinese submarines joining by 2028.... Even if they don't retire two old Agosta 70 by 2028 then also they will have 13 submarines against

4 HDW (I'm assuming they also remains in service till the end of this decade)

8 kilos

6 scorpeans

1 Akula or maybe 2

3 Arihant class

 

[SQ8]

You'll have a bigger submarine force than Indian navy? Can you provide sources to prove this claim?
Bydway huge jihadi population?

He is actually not wrong - because these snakes exist for such battles. If there is none then they like juiced up drug addicts need violence which they enact on their own countrymen.

Unfortunately, this phenomenon now is beyond the control of the state as such.

 

[313ghazi]

He is actually not wrong - because these snakes exist for such battles. If there is none then they like juiced up drug addicts need violence which they enact on their own countrymen.

Unfortunately, this phenomenon now is beyond the control of the state as such.

Forget just the jihadi typical awam is armed to the teeth. My uncle has an AK for every man in our household. It's the AJK version of a house alarm.

 

[313ghazi]

Also India will only keep 3 of the kilo class the rest are being scrapped. You're only getting in scorpene. Only 2 of the old German subs will be upgraded. The Ahrint class is being trialled.

6 + 3 +2 = 11

You have 1 akula on lease, the lease ends next year.

India to retire first Kilo-class submarine this year

But its submarine woes are unlikely to end soon as it stares at a lost decade of its underwater arm

www.indiatoday.in

We will have 13 subs, indian calculations didn't include didn't include our midget submarines either.