Military formations in Mahabharata

[Gen Padmanabhan]

Bharata is nation who follows Hindusim.

Salah is even a type of Yoga , I noticed this when International Yoga Festival was observed in New Delhi.

Bharat is now a nation?

 

[Hindustani78]

Bharat is now a nation?

In South , Bharateeyudu term is use for Indians and in Hindi its Bharati.

And this term comes from Sanskrit and its easily for South Indians to learn Sanskrit fast.

Why in Bhagwat Gita , Mahabharat term is mentioned ??

यदा यदा हि धर्मस्य ग्लानिर्भवति भारत ।
अभ्युत्थानमधर्मस्य तदात्मानं सृजाम्यहम् ॥४-७॥
परित्राणाय साधूनां विनाशाय च दुष्कृताम् ।
धर्मसंस्थापनार्थाय सम्भवामि युगे युगे ॥४-८॥

Yada yada hi dharmasya glanirbhavati bharata
Abhythanamadharmasya tadatmanam srijamyaham
Paritranaya sadhunang vinashay cha dushkritam
Dharmasangsthapanarthay sambhabami yuge yuge

The meaning of these two slokas is—[1]
Whenever there is decay of righteousness, O Bharata,
And there is exaltation of unrighteousness, then I Myself come forth ;

For the protection of the good, for the destruction of evil-doers,
For the sake of firmly establishing righteousness, I am born from age to age.

 

[Hindustani78]

another pathetic bangladeshi with his tall fake and idiotic claim.....keep away from things which your puny mind cant understand....anyway i am fed up with bangladeshi bullshit

Indians are Indians wherever they go but the trend to term Indians because of thier religion as Bangladeshis is not good for the nation.Enemies want to divide the nation and create internal problems.

There have been times when even Ex President of Republic of India APJ Abdul Kalam was called infront of me aboard as Bangladeshi

 

[knight11]

Well I completely agree with Gen Padmanabhan that there is no reference to Hinduism in Vedas or the important religious books, why because it was never that important. Why should it be ?

Its the way of life, and the Hinduism is the all the culture, heritage that dwells in the Indian Subcontinent aks Bharat Varsha are hindus. The western culture actualy popularized the hinduism and gave various theory stuffed like Aryan Invasion Theory.

 

[knight11]

you might be a false flagger but one thing u need to understand......these ancient books written thousands of year before reflects what people believe back then which may not be true in todays time or may even sound ridiculous but then you should be able to grasp the inner meaning of texts rather than taking it literally........
if u reside in india then u are privileged enough airing ur views on those texts otherwise in other countries u say against majorities' religion then may god save ur pathetic a**.

In my earlier post I explain with one true story about the Chinese Paper currency. If you keep you mind set and don't want to see through different percepective, than this tends to happens. People at that time laugh to the idea of using the paper currency, but now see its such a common practice.

How much long is the history of the human, and how can someone say that the modern world is the most modern of the all, The weapons mentioned in the Mahabharata was not done after WW2, rather, it was explained thousands of years ago before that. So their imagination must be very high to imagine what the humans are going to do in year 1945.
Some of the one tends to make fun of the vedic knowledge, but certainly we need to find out how they have the knowledge of the atoms, way before the inventions of the microscope.

 

[knight11]

So the Dwapar Yuga ended after the war mahabharata. There are other's military formation also like Roman tactics and war formation, will post tomorrow. But first some formation, defined during the Mauryan dynasty by the Chankaya

The formations I will discuss are NOT, however, mythological. Rather, they are actual formations used by ancient Indian armies during the Maurya Empire, as described by Chanakya in his masterpiece Arthashastra.

Chanakya describes four basic varieties of formations:
1. Danda - the staff-like array
2. Bhoga - the snake-like array
3. Mandala - the circle-like array
4. Asamhata - the detached order

Each of these four varieties, in turn, has its own variations. I will try to describe as many of these variations as possible, using direct information from the Arthashastra.

I will also provide illustrations to better depict these formations. All images are my own work (hence the low-quality, LOL)
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First, let us discuss the danda, or "staff-like array". According to Chankaya, this is a formation in which all the constituents of the army stand abreast. This would make it the most simple type of array.

The pradara is a variant of the danda. The purpose of this formation is to break the enemy's formation. To achieve this, the flanks are made to project forward, and generally consist of "shock" units such as war elephants, heavy chariots, and armored cavalry.

The pradara can be countered by means of the dridhaka.

The dridhaka (which means "firm") is a defensive variant of the danda, and is meant as a counter to the pradara. The flanks and wings are stretched back, and are designed to absorb the blow of a frontal attack. The dridhaka typically consists of sturdy mail- and plate-armored infantry.

The dridhaka can be countered by the asayha.

The next variant is the "irresistible" formation, or asayha. It conists of elongated wings designed to envelop the enemy. The wings usually conist of fast and maneuverable units like light and medium cavalry (and sometimes chariots or elephants). It is most useful against compact formations like the dridhaka.

The asayha can be countered by means of the Syena vyuha.

The Syena vyuha ("eagle formation") of Mahabharat lore can be dscribed as a variant of the danda as well as the asayha. The Syena vyuha consists of a projected front in addition to elongated wings. It is designed for a "comprehensive attack" by all constituents of the army; it can shatter the enemy's center while simultaneously conducting an enveloping attack on its flanks and rear. As with the asayha, it is most useful against compact formations.

The Syena vyuha can be countered by means of the sanjaya formation.

source Ancient Mythological War Formations

thats some impressive work but u cant persuade " lakeer k fakeer " type of mindset ......my point being whether u believe or not, respect each other's beliefs.

Those question was for those who wants to make fun of the Mahabharata, so that they could answer those question first, then say anything on the subject. Well my original threads post is only meant for the military formation only, there is nothing religious at all here.

 

[knight11]

Here is one interesting answer i found for the Chakravyouh

Jon Davis, Writer and Blogger on Military, Veterans, and Middle Eastern Affairs.
31.9k Views

This question got my imagination going. After seeing it, I started to research the issue. I wanted to take a chance to share the information I discovered with western readers.

The context of this was based on various accounts from the Kurukshetra War. The Kurukshetra War was a war that would best be compared to the Trojan War for Western civilizations. The truth is that much of what we know today about the war is legendary in nature, however, archaeological evidence is turning up more evidence that much of the war actually did take place, in the same way the Trojan War did as well. Many accounts place the war around 3000 years ago in the Indus Valley around where Pakistan and India meet today.

In that spirit, I believe that there may actually be quite a bit of truth to this formation that seems to be quite fictious in nature. The usage of such as a formation could be quite advantageous against the armies and technologies used of that era.

Using a Western perspective I will try and see if I can give a rational explanation for why the Padmavyuha would have actually existed, how I would have used it and how I would attempt to defeat it.

Why the Padmavyuha likely existed:
I think that the important thing to know has already been made very clear by my associates, Navin Pai, Amar Prabhu. The Padmavyuha is a spinning death machine on the battlefield. It has the capability to maintain its form while slowly engulfing enemy soldiers into it where they are surely doomed to fall to an endless alley of soldiers stabbing at them from every direction. It is truly a fascinating battle tactic to study.

What I don't think is being mentioned is that I don't think this formation was ever intended to be used against a single soldier, or that a single soldier was ever intended to try and defeat it. It just isn't rational to take on a formation like that, nor is it rational to use that formation for the purpose of defeating a single person either. What I believe the formation was used for was to saw into enemy formations and eventually break them, allowing more soldiers to break through.

Let's take a look at warfare circa 1000 BCE. This was during the Indian Iron Age. During this time warfare was mainly fought by massive armies pushing at one another until one side died more often than the other. Strategy was less sophisticated and the most important elements were who had the most men. Individual training was stressed as one of the few things an army could do to win in a battle. What many people don't understand is that this period pitted thousands and perhaps hundreds of thousands of warriors against eachother, usually armed very lightly on both sides, cutting eachother down in droves. Very few people had a significant advantage. There were no professional soldiers during this period, only conscripted warriors who fought during the war season. Even the warrior class had jobs during the "off season". Only the extraordinarily rich had significantly better armor or weapons. What happened in reality was that people with poor armor and training would push each other for a very long time until one eventually ran into a spear. There was also a lot of pushing. The truth is that the back of a formation would push heavily on the front and eventually the army that out-pushed the other would win. They would do this by pushing the other into a place where they couldn't push back, into rivers, off of cliffs, into forests where their formations would break up and the losing side would route or be wiped out. It would look a lot like this.

Here you see two forces, presumed identical, lined across from one another. When the battle starts, assuming no other advantage, the two armies will annihilate eachother and neither will be victorious. Neither would win in this case by reaching the enemy general. Sun Tzu references this type of warfare, one in which relies on the individual training of soldiers, and having more men as wasteful and inefficient. During the Iron and Bronze Ages, most warfare though was just like this. Unit tactics were just starting to come out that would help fix this and make it to where fewer soldiers could win in a large battle like the ones described in the Kurukshetra War. In Greece the Phalanx was still in it's infancy and it doesn't surprise me that other parts of the world would be experimenting with similarly ingenious tactics as well.

How I would have used the Padmavyuha:
Now the Padmavyuha as I have mentioned would likely be one of these early evolutions of unit tactics. We must remember that the formation itself is made up of very strong, well trained and well equipped units that would survive much better than the average warriors on the battlefield. Also remember that the formation had one entrance that stuck out from a circular pattern while the whole formation spun. What I think it was used for can be summed up as a saw with only a single tooth. The saw would be able to scoop up small chunks of the enemy formation as it actually pushed into the saw.

As it is mentioned this was a defensive tactic which means that it absorbs the energy of the enemy pushing into it.

As the battle continues the only part of the field that will experience a significant drop will be the center of the enemy formation across from the Padmavyuha. The men that get scooped into it will be killed and ones from behind will be pushed toward the front. This will eventually lead toward a weak spot.

At the point when the Padmavyuha would break through the formation it would then dissolve as hordes of warriors gushed through the gap and claimed the enemy general.

So that is how I would have used this legendary technique and since it was mentioned to exist in many accounts, this is how I would probably guess it was used as well.

 

[knight11]

How would I defeat the Padmavyuha?
This is where I think large unit structuring on the battlefield would come into play. What is important is that you play the units strengths against itself. In this case the fact that formation is capable of spinning, which powered its scoop, is also its greatest weakness.

This is the formation I would line up against an army with a Padmavyuha.

At the point when the two front rows surround the formation is when you begin to execute the maneuver.

At this point the second row on the right as the diagram would charge the formation.

What some of the answers above show is a precision movement by a single soldier essentially keyholing a weak point in the formation. I believe that the best way to do this is simply crash one unit formation with another massive unit formation. What also hurts the Padmavyuha is that the part of the formation not being affected by the red troops is actually pushing the rest of the Padmavyuha into their formation. This will cause the formation to flatten out and lose its ability to self correct when one soldier falls. It will lose its purpose in the battle also negating any strategic advantage the Padmavyuha once enjoyed.

In a broader scope this has significantly reshaped the layout of troops on the battlefield.

As you can see, the largest strategic advantage of the blue has been lost and the red is now slightly shifted to one side.This will play and important role as it will define how the two armies begin to flow around one another as the battle continues.

Eventually the field will begin to look much like this. This is envelopment. Where one side begins to wrap around the other you have the internal force at a distinct disadvantage because at the very point of the blue formation you have one person fighting two people. This is never good odds and in a long battle will eventually result in heavy blue casualties if the situation is not corrected. Assuming that things will not however, the field would begin to continue in this manner until the red finish the maneuver and attack the general from the flanks.

Summary:
As I said before this is a war that has many elements that have over centuries reached a legendary status. The truth is that no human can "know" how to get out of a situation like that. Once inside there was surely no good end for the soldier. However I don't imagine that, if this formation ever truly existed, which according to many ancient records it did, that it was ever used against one person. What I do think is that it was a large unit killing machine and that fighting with other large units is the only rational approach. I think that this formation and the war that gave rise to it are a good study in ancient military tradition and execution and that it should not all be dismissed as possible legend and myth, since as in my own culture's history, much of the Trojan myth has been proven true and has given us a great deal of knowledge and understanding of that period of time. Imagining it as legendary battle in which a single soldier would defeat the formation to most would be to easily dismissable. To me the true nature of this is that it was perhaps the first conceived version of tank warfare. In a time around 500 years before the Greeks at Thermopylae had mastered the phalanx and 700 years before Alexander's tactics had conquered the Middle East, India was producing some of the most advanced tactics and battlefield strategies of the era. This and other aspects of ancient wars should be taken very seriously by western historians to give us more clues as to the true fighting nature and capabilities of ancient warriors. I very much think that this formation had a place in the wars of ancient India and would not be surprised at all to find that it was used to defeat very real armies of the day.

 

[Point_4590]

The use of trebuchet goes back t0 500 BC.Buddhist scriptures mentioned is as Maha Shila Kantak which Ajatshatru used against the invasion of Lichhavis.Buddhist sources also mentioned Battering RAM as maha rath muthala.

 

[Indian Patriot]

This is not my first request but pls check the poster @Indian Patriot id and ip-address. I don't have the tools required on the PDF which prooves that he is actually a pakistani, but it is with the moderators who only need is to use them to find the truth. Also please check the person's all the old comments-- only agenda of him is the derailing of the thread and to defame India. The topic of this thread military formation in Mahabharata-- and his one post are mainly to defame hindus or the author of the Mahabharata. No one was here discussing any religion, tipu sultan, or look at him whats his post here means that thy could not stop muslim attack. I only named the name of the weapon which were mentioned in the the mahabharata, and nobody claim Hindu's superiority or the weapon as the ATOMIC BOMB except him.

It is not your job to decide who is false-flagger and who is not. So say in your limits you loser.

@WebMaster @Horus @Oscar @Manticore @Jungibaaz @Slav Defence @waz @Irfan Baloch

This is my humble request to you people to please discourage trolls like knight11 from trolling and trying to defame other posters. As a poster he is here to discuss and debate not to detective work on who is Indian and who is not. This is not his mandate nor does he have any powers to do so. He has been constantly trying to call me a false-flagger in multiple posts and he is taking my silence as a weakness. This is not acceptable and he has to stop.

He has no right to post that signature just as he has no right to make personal comments against other posters. knight11 is consistently breaching the rules and decorum of PDF. It is my request to you sirs to please tell him to behave.

 

[Hindustani78]

In the Mahabharata, Krishna wielded what would today be called a lethal autonomous weapon: the Sudarshana Chakra would track its target to the ends of the earth, eliminate it and return to its owner.

Shree Krishna had the wisdom not to deploy his awesome weapon — at least, not directly. He used it to block out the sun, which tricked opposing warriors into dropping their protective shield. Ancient India had rules of war, just as we do: they required fighting to cease at sunset.

Throughout history, the capacity to wield new technologies — from gunpowder to nuclear weapons to long-range missiles — has changed how wars are fought, and the strategic balance between attack and defence maintaine

 

[MagicMarker]

In South , Bharateeyudu term is use for Indians and in Hindi its Bharati.

And this term comes from Sanskrit and its easily for South Indians to learn Sanskrit fast.

Why in Bhagwat Gita , Mahabharat term is mentioned ??

यदा यदा हि धर्मस्य ग्लानिर्भवति भारत ।
अभ्युत्थानमधर्मस्य तदात्मानं सृजाम्यहम् ॥४-७॥
परित्राणाय साधूनां विनाशाय च दुष्कृताम् ।
धर्मसंस्थापनार्थाय सम्भवामि युगे युगे ॥४-८॥

Yada yada hi dharmasya glanirbhavati bharata
Abhythanamadharmasya tadatmanam srijamyaham
Paritranaya sadhunang vinashay cha dushkritam
Dharmasangsthapanarthay sambhabami yuge yuge

The meaning of these two slokas is—[1]
Whenever there is decay of righteousness, O Bharata,
And there is exaltation of unrighteousness, then I Myself come forth ;

For the protection of the good, for the destruction of evil-doers,
For the sake of firmly establishing righteousness, I am born from age to age.

The Bharata mentioned in this shloka is not the nation "Bharat", but the surname of Arjuna.

Arjuna was from the "Kuru Vamsam" and were direct dependents of the Emperor Bharat After whom the land is called "Bharat varsham" or "land of Emperor Bharat".

In this shloka, krishna is calling Arjuna as "Bharata" i.e. by his surname. It does not mean the land.

Bharat was the first Emperor of India and one of his illustrious descendants Samrat Sudas Paijavana united and expanded his empire from Afghanistan to Bengal.

The detailed family tree is given below as mentioned in the Vedas and Purans.

 

[Vanamali]

The fairness of the cause for which the war is fought is important and not the fairness of how the war is fought.

In entire Mahabharatam, Karn