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Military Coup in Iran ?

Longbrained,

How do you think Iran can come out of top with sanctions or possibility of war, when even China is trying to profit from situation to get lower oil prices, and cutting its oil imports ? I can see how Iran might survive, but how can it thrive in isolation ? Maybe the regime can stay in power for another 10 years, but at the expense of Iran looking increasingly like Cuba or North Korea.

I am no sage, but I predict Iran will be much better 10 years from now and will never become North Korea or Cuba. In North Korea, there is no dissent at all, the leader is accepted as a kind of god. Cuba is an island with not much resources. It is wrong to compare Iran to them. In Iran you can have dissent of sorts as long as you accept Iran as an Islamic republic and its constitution. Not an unreasonable demand, since all countries have such restrictions. In Germany you can not criticize your government to the point of making it Nazi again, despite Nazi sympathizers already being present in enough numbers. So Iran is not that bad.

As for the advancement, I believe, the eastern cultures unfortunately unless they are not under huge pressures do not perform well. Iran infact needs some push from sanctions and like to push it to develop its own industries and become more productive. It is not only at governmental level, even at an eastern home, children are pushed to perform. You can say we are lazy, I say that is our culture. But it is a reality. Iran in 1979 had electricity generation capacity of 7000 MW, with a population of 30 million. Today it has a capacity of 65000 MW with a population of 75 million. This capacity is the most important indicator of industrialization. The other indicator is the amount of steel produced in a country which Iran is producing plenty of and dozens of times more than before revolution. So things are improving, it is not like Iran is becoming a sub-Saharan country.

There are issues as I said, but they can be solved, internally and non-violently. For example I had earlier said in another post in this forum that I expect in the next ten years, I predict, Iranian constitution to be amended and there is a good possibility that the seat of supreme leader to get a tenure, which would make Iran 100% democratic and all objections to it void. For example they can say, only an Ayatullah can become a supreme leader indirectly elected by assembly of experts much like prime ministers are indirectly elected in western countries. And the supreme leader is going to have a tenure of let's say 8 years in office and after that, assembly of experts is going to vote again on it. Also they can say, no Ayatullah can become a supreme leader for more than two times. So the possibility of change is there. But this change can not be done now due to various factors, it is a long term plan.

As for Iranian economy and sanctions, I guess, there is alot of propaganda. Sanctions have effect but the real cause of Iranian economical problems are the inefficient structure of economy which badly needs a structural reform. Now this might sound like IMF but this is the truth. I like Ahmadinejad for this same reason since he is so much pro-structural reform. Whether subsidies or other areas. Actually the original Ahmadinejad called for reform and complete revamp of 6 areas of which subsidies is just one of them. But as you can see, there are powerful economical players in Iran which do not like this structural reforms and are resisting full force. The most powerful element being traditional Bazar which I have heard is so powerful that no Shah, or Ayatullah has ever messed with it. The problem with Bazar is that it thinks in old terms of doing business with no innovation and all its dealings are based on non-productive quick profit type, which is keeping Iran back. According to IMF there is 400 billion dollar of excess money in this Bazar which is just roaming around and instead of turning to invest in innovation and technology production is causing hyper inflation by making bubbles after bubbles in commodity markets such as gold, dollar, housing etc etc.

Anyways one other area of Ahmadinejad structural reform was in customs. Basically he wanted to have complete control over the borders and kill all corruption by using ASYCUDA smart software. Not sure if he has been able to implement it yet. Since again there must be opposition there as well, from all kinds of smugglers, vested interests and Bazar itself.

Anyways this opposition exists in every country and structural reforms are huge gambles and very difficult to do without any opposition in any country. May be if Iran was North Korea it would have been easier, but in Iran there are too many factions and groups. And to actually read some neutral scientific analysis about Iranian economy Please see this site which is written by an American Economist who actually knows about Iran and has access to real data since most of the popular media is not doing a technical analysis of Iranian economy and is simply propaganda: Tyranny of numbers
 
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I actually found some ASYCUDA data for Iran and it seem that have chosen the W version of the software, though there is nothing about when they are about to implement it: ASYCUDA
 
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Longbrained, at least you have attempted to answer the question without getting into personal attacks or put downs. Some of the Iranian members can learn from you ;)
 
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If you cant' answer the question ... you have admitted that Iran has no chances to win this, and the Iranian government strategy has not worked and it will lead Iran to a sharp decline, yet you like that for some reason ... somehow, you have some vested interest not in Iran's welfare but in something else.

---------- Post added at 12:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:07 PM ----------

You have not answered the question. FAIL !

Dude...I think you are trying to be too smart or you are pretending that you dont know the ground situation....Your name also sounds pretty funny by your view point....Are you a pakistani/freinds of pakistani or Iranian?

As an Indian, my impression is that Iranian people are fiercely independent and they donot want to get dominated or a client state of any nation in the earth....And of course, they should also feel pride of what they are. Being most ancient civilization of the world and being one of the very few muslim nations who developed inspite of being in sanction and wars for last 30 years....I doubt any other country in this world can not really progress to this extent being so much hardship or sanctions on them....And so it is pretty obvious that they want to translate their determination/spirit/ambiion and influence in the muslim world to the regional power level...That is the reason they want to oppose US....
 
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I think Iranian just need to tweak their political system, that's it.
 
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Once the country is in ruins and ordinary people start rampaging, things might change. That is what the US wants. Why wait until the country is in ruins ? The current rulers will not climb down, and this is going to keep Iran isolated and going downhill for a decade with sanctions and such, if not attacked militarily. How is that a good scenario ? Show me a realistic scenario where Iran ccan come out on top, and I will change my opinion.

If the current government in Iran collapses, you can be sure that whatever replaces it would be far far worse.

Han Han, a famous writer in China noted that revolutions in poor countries usually result in the most brutal of dictators taking office. Happened in France, happened in China several times, happened everywhere except the US, but only because the US was so rich in resources that the promises could be kept.

This is because as the revolution goes on, the percentage of supporters that are lowly educated increases. We see this in both France and China. At first, the revolutions were about high ideals: democracy, equality, freedom... whatever. Then, the revolutions degenerated into straight nationalism. Finally, they turned into "hang the rich and give to the poor". Which isn't necessarily bad, except that the real "rich" have either left the country or are part of the new power elite already, and those hanged are usually the middle class.
 
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I will give you my answer to my own question. How can Iran come on top ... or at least how to avoid a military conflict.

Since Iran is going soon to go under severe sanctions and an oil embargo, Iran has nothing to loose by moving ahead at the speed of light and develop at least a dozen nukes. The question is, can they (do they have enough uranium, and perhaps lots of centrifuges hidden and undexlared).

It won't save the economy but it will prevent military confrontation, that is possible destruction of entire industrial infrastructure of Iran.

In time, the world will have no choice but to accept this fact ... and live with it, just as they did with Pakistan.

It may result in lots of hardship for Iranian people in the next few years, but if there is no other way (change of government) and it saves the country from military destruction, then so be it.
 
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I will give you my answer to my own question. How can Iran come on top ... or at least how to avoid a military conflict.

Since Iran is going soon to go under severe sanctions and an oil embargo, Iran has nothing to loose by moving ahead at the speed of light and develop at least a dozen nukes. The question is, can they (do they have enough uranium, and perhaps lots of centrifuges hidden and undexlared).

It won't save the economy but it will prevent military confrontation, that is possible destruction of entire industrial infrastructure of Iran.

In time, the world will have no choice but to accept this fact ... and live with it, just as they did with Pakistan.

It may result in lots of hardship for Iranian people in the next few years, but if there is no other way (change of government) and it saves the country from military destruction, then so be it.

this was always the only option on the table short of rolling over and dying, but your government kind of made it worse.
 
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what do you mean by making it worse ?
i think what made it worse is that they have taken so long and still not done it.
by the way, it's not my government ;)
this was always the only option on the table short of rolling over and dying, but your government kind of made it worse.
 
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