MIG 29 deployment near Pakistan border Is PAF ready for the threat ?

[emotionless_teenage]

i see someone mentioned about "surgical strike +MiG-29"

MiG-29,at it's early form,is designed to be an air superiority fighter with limited air-to-ground capability(i doubt they can carry anything other than unguided bombs)

unless indian's fulcrum being upgraded to SMT version i doubt they can carry such operation with their fulcrum

 

[raveolution]

i see someone mentioned about "surgical strike +MiG-29"

MiG-29,at it's early form,is designed to be an air superiority fighter with limited air-to-ground capability(i doubt they can carry anything other than unguided bombs)

unless indian's fulcrum being upgraded to SMT version i doubt they can carry such operation with their fulcrum

I don't think that the Mig 29's have been placed at Adampur AFB to carry out surgical strikes. There were already 2 squadrons already there and a third is being stationed there to increase response time and beef up defence.

Although the Mig29 is usually used by the IAF as an Air Defence fighter, it does have AtoG capability as well. The original MiG-29B could carry only general-purpose bombs and unguided rocket pods, but not precision-guided munitions. Later models, which are with the IAF, have a provision for laser-guided and electro-optical bombs, as well as air-to-surface missiles, although the same may not have been deployed by the IAF.

All 62 MiG-29S to be upgraded to "SMT" standard.Service life of MiG-29s aircraft will be extended from 25 to 40 years,first deliveries in early 2011 and program to be completed by 2014. Major changes will be a 2D TVC engine, more powerful radar, etc.

 

[Goodperson]

Good person the Article in question is another Bollywood story the guy who wrote it has no idea what he is talking about. If the Indians say that your EX-PAF officers wrote the same thing that was wrong too some retired PAF officers who took early retirement because they didn't get promoted were pissed and started to write articles against PAF.

1) The threat threat of attacks from terrorist is real it has been warned by international credible sources.
2) The Mig -29 deployment is real.
3) Its true that during Kargil Mig 29's were acting as escorts to Mirage 2000's and they had R77 BVR missiles. Pakistan did not have BVR's hence MIG 29 locking F-16 is more credible.


Bollywood Oh! you mean a movie or a dream then don't get disturbed sleep peacefully.

Pakistan Air Force made sure that they stay out side the ring WHY? if PAF would have taken out a fighter it would cause a chain reaction which meant war on all fronts.

What chain reaction ? Pakistan was very short sighted to attack Kargil. No countries air-force will keep quite when its army is bombarded with artillery and aircraft.

When PAF got slammed by Uncle Sam it didn't make much difference, PAF got the spear parts from a EU country who bought spares from Turkey and Israel and sold it to GOP the only drawback was a part which was for $500 GOP had to pay 5 times more. PAF was never compromised due to lack of spare parts. There flying hours were met according to what PAF wanted Appox 230 hr a month for every SQD.

IAF not even once locked on to our fighters IAF was out for blood because they lost fighters and helicopters. If they had F-16 or any other fighter they would have taken it out. When IAF fighters got shot down by Air defence they decided not to send in SU so they opted for Mirage2000 and they did high level bombing just to keep them selves out of harms way.

Its apparent that you do not know the operations of IAF. The low flying Mig 27 had engine burnout or shot by stingers by Militants.

 

[Goodperson]

I don't think that the Mig 29's have been placed at Adampur AFB to carry out surgical strikes. There were already 2 squadrons already there and a third is being stationed there to increase response time and beef up defence.

Although the Mig29 is usually used by the IAF as an Air Defence fighter, it does have AtoG capability as well. The original MiG-29B could carry only general-purpose bombs and unguided rocket pods, but not precision-guided munitions. Later models, which are with the IAF, have a provision for laser-guided and electro-optical bombs, as well as air-to-surface missiles, although the same may not have been deployed by the IAF.

All 62 MiG-29S to be upgraded to "SMT" standard.Service life of MiG-29s aircraft will be extended from 25 to 40 years,first deliveries in early 2011 and program to be completed by 2014. Major changes will be a 2D TVC engine, more powerful radar, etc.

Mig 29 air superiority fighter possibly Mirage 2000 will be used for surgical strikes if required.

 

[emotionless_teenage]

I don't think that the Mig 29's have been placed at Adampur AFB to carry out surgical strikes. There were already 2 squadrons already there and a third is being stationed there to increase response time and beef up defence.

Although the Mig29 is usually used by the IAF as an Air Defence fighter, it does have AtoG capability as well. The original MiG-29B could carry only general-purpose bombs and unguided rocket pods, but not precision-guided munitions. Later models, which are with the IAF, have a provision for laser-guided and electro-optical bombs, as well as air-to-surface missiles, although the same may not have been deployed by the IAF.

All 62 MiG-29S to be upgraded to "SMT" standard.Service life of MiG-29s aircraft will be extended from 25 to 40 years,first deliveries in early 2011 and program to be completed by 2014. Major changes will be a 2D TVC engine, more powerful radar, etc.

cool

any further reading about that?
(afaik MiG-29 SMT is only being operated by syria,,yemen and russia,obviously)

thanks in advance

 

[Goodperson]

cool

any further reading about that?
(afaik MiG-29 SMT is only being operated by syria,,yemen and russia,obviously)

thanks in advance

All the Mig 29's will be based in Adampur and all are in process of up gradation
Batch of Six will be upgraded by next year.

IAF to induct upgraded MiGs next year.

 

[Kompromat]

You're right that the whole world would probably laugh at both countries in the event of an all out war.

Any air attacks would lead to losses due to SAM's and interceptors, whether it is the IAF over *** or PAF over the more heavily defended Mumbai (S-300, Spyder). PAF does have an ability to defend its airspace and has many kills to its record but so does the IAF historically. However as mentioned in my post in another thread, the gap between the two air-forces have widened both in quantity and quality whether in the current scenario or in 2015.

If you add up the numbers, at the moment its 34 F-16's (not MLU'd), 100 Mirage 3/5, 60 Mirage 3/5 ROSE, 100 F-7's (old), 40 F-7 PG's VS 120 SU30 MKI, 60 MIG29, 50 Mirage 2000, 125 Mig 21 Bison, 100 Mig 27's and 140 Jaguars, with most aircraft either going for upgrades or already have been upgraded.

Also the Navy. I dont believe 6 PN submarines (although a potent force) and 10 odd surface vessels would stand upto IN's 12 subs and 35 surface combatants.

I'm not trying to boast about the Indian Armed Forces strength. I am trying to say that Pakistan needs to go in for a substantial acquisition programs of both foreign and chinese origin to close the conventional gap so that it does have some options on the table, and considering the nuclear option is further up the ladder.

Feel free to disagree and also if my numbers are off the mark. Cheers

I always have agreed with no war options!

We have a programme in place Called Armed forces develoment programe 2019.

By 2015:

PAF's expected Inventory.

F-16's : 43 A/B All MLU upgraded by 2015
F16's Block 52+: 18 to be delivered by 2011 18 more on Option.
61 in total.
JF 17: 300 Block 1 & Block II ( Meant to be on par with Block 52+)
FC-20/ J10/B: 36 by 2014 with 36 more on option.
Mirage ROSE: 70
Indian MRCA compatator: ????? ( PAF waiting for India to decide and
then PAF will Aquire something Matching)
Current estimation: 467 Fighter Jets same as 2009

But PAF is Looking forward to Induct more Squardons , so we may expect to have 550 + by 2015 as i said before we are waiting for IAF to pick its bird & then we will pick ours to match it.
Regards:

 

[Kompromat]

Must watch Dogfight between MIG29 & F/A 18

 

[ice_man]

You're right that the whole world would probably laugh at both countries in the event of an all out war.

Any air attacks would lead to losses due to SAM's and interceptors, whether it is the IAF over *** or PAF over the more heavily defended Mumbai (S-300, Spyder). PAF does have an ability to defend its airspace and has many kills to its record but so does the IAF historically. However as mentioned in my post in another thread, the gap between the two air-forces have widened both in quantity and quality whether in the current scenario or in 2015.

If you add up the numbers, at the moment its 34 F-16's (not MLU'd), 100 Mirage 3/5, 60 Mirage 3/5 ROSE, 100 F-7's (old), 40 F-7 PG's VS 120 SU30 MKI, 60 MIG29, 50 Mirage 2000, 125 Mig 21 Bison, 100 Mig 27's and 140 Jaguars, with most aircraft either going for upgrades or already have been upgraded.

Also the Navy. I dont believe 6 PN submarines (although a potent force) and 10 odd surface vessels would stand upto IN's 12 subs and 35 surface combatants.

I'm not trying to boast about the Indian Armed Forces strength. I am trying to say that Pakistan needs to go in for a substantial acquisition programs of both foreign and chinese origin to close the conventional gap so that it does have some options on the table, and considering the nuclear option is further up the ladder.

Feel free to disagree and also if my numbers are off the mark. Cheers

your numbers might be correct but then again this is all on PAPER...practicality luck plays a big role so does skill of the people involved....now in the 60's Pakistan had a clear edge over the indians this edge existed till the end of soviet war in afghanistan....however since then the indians have been catching up in terms of machine and tactics....and in some cases have even moved ahead....

but then again in an indo pak war Pakistan doesn't expect realistically to occupy india all the way to calcutta and make indians sign a treaty of Versailles....our aim would be to make india pay and have huge losses....losses so big that india wouldn't want to fight anymore!!

but having said that india pak war if it happens will be a very limited skirmish affair anything beyond that would mean a full scale nuclear war something that no one wants to do on both sides of the border!!


@ GUBBI good read about how possibly a PAF F7 can lock onto a MiG...and so on.....but the last line as to why PAF didn't fire at the MiG is simple strict ROE!! we fire they fire and we escalate!!!

 

[raveolution]

I always have agreed with no war options!

We have a programme in place Called Armed forces develoment programe 2019.

By 2015:

PAF's expected Inventory.

F-16's : 43 A/B All MLU upgraded by 2015
F16's Block 52+: 18 to be delivered by 2011 18 more on Option.
61 in total.
JF 17: 300 Block 1 & Block II ( Meant to be on par with Block 52+)
FC-20/ J10/B: 36 by 2014 with 36 more on option.
Mirage ROSE: 70
Indian MRCA compatator: ????? ( PAF waiting for India to decide and
then PAF will Aquire something Matching)
Current estimation: 467 Fighter Jets same as 2009

But PAF is Looking forward to Induct more Squardons , so we may expect to have 550 + by 2015 as i said before we are waiting for IAF to pick its bird & then we will pick ours to match it.
Regards:

What I had posted in another thread :

"I fully agree with Coolyo on the dogfights bit in modern warfare. His point that JF17's in large numbers are an effective force is also true but in relativity. What would the PAF be against if a war was to be fought around 2015? (considering that is the time line by when the PAF would be flying JF-17's in large numbers), is a very valid point.

At that time both countries inventories would be like this:

PAF - 60 F16 Blk 52, 36 J10B, 120 JF17 Blk 2,3 (assuming 25 fighters built a year from now on), 65 Mirage Rose and 50 F7PG. I'm assuming the balance older Mirages and F7's will be replaced by JF's.

IAF - 280 SU30 MKI Blk 1&2, 100 MRCA (Assuming decision made by 2011-12 which is a reasonable timeline), 60 Mig29 SMT, 50 Mirage 2000-5, 125 Mig 21 Bison, 100 Mig27 upgraded, 150 Jaguar DarinIII and 50 LCA (Maybe, since everyone here is not sure of its FOC)."

The numbers are more or less similar. Where I would differ would be that I think the eventual requirement of JF 17 has been capped at 250. However its unlikely that this number would be reached by 2015, which means producing 50 aircraft a year. More likely it would be closer to 150 by 2015 which is the total in the initial order.

I do not think that Pakistan would exercise its option on 18 more F16's. That is the general view i get from reading the threads on this forum. However reality may be different. Would also like if you could give me a link which says that the PAF is looking to acquire a western MRCA and is waiting for an Indian decision,purely for my interest.

I was under the impression that the PAF was looking to induct only Chinese systems as they were not ready to induct weapons platforms which are prone to sanctions. Also I believe that the Rafale was rejected due to the cost factor. This is a big consideration since it takes a lot of money to buy and maintain western fighters which may not be in PAF's or GoP's agenda for now.

 

[nightrider_saulat]

I always have agreed with no war options!

We have a programme in place Called Armed forces develoment programe 2019.

By 2015:

PAF's expected Inventory.

F-16's : 43 A/B All MLU upgraded by 2015
F16's Block 52+: 18 to be delivered by 2011 18 more on Option.
61 in total.
JF 17: 300 Block 1 & Block II ( Meant to be on par with Block 52+)
FC-20/ J10/B: 36 by 2014 with 36 more on option.
Mirage ROSE: 70
Indian MRCA compatator: ????? ( PAF waiting for India to decide and
then PAF will Aquire something Matching)
Current estimation: 467 Fighter Jets same as 2009

But PAF is Looking forward to Induct more Squardons , so we may expect to have 550 + by 2015 as i said before we are waiting for IAF to pick its bird & then we will pick ours to match it.
Regards:

brother rose mirages are for stop age gap they all will be replace by first initial 150 thunders
these thunders will also replace all F-5 and F-7

 

[asq]

Asq.....

There is no moral high ground in war.....

And lets not talk about atrocities......The way you criticize our nation for atrocities, your nation is also equally responsible for the same when they help sponsor terrorists who kill innocent civilians, or supporting the Taliban in Afghanistan which itself has directly resulted in the destruction of a nation and its people......So your nations hands are soaked in the same blood!!!

We as Indians are doing our duty to protect our motherland......that includes Kashmir!!!

Also, I have respect for Pakistani's in general as I have close relationships with many from your nation.....But I will not take an insult about my nation, its people and armed forces from the same....

Lets leave it at that....

Yes there are moral high grounds, the fact is that we were force to get involved as 4 million Afghan refugees wanted us to save their land. and requested by Muslim brothers to help them in ridding of infidels.

Than came 9/11 and we were forced to side with one side as at the time we were being threatened to be bombed to stone ages. Pakistani leaders at the time could have promised to help catch the culprits which we have done many times before as in the case of Kanji or manji who killed three CIA member in Washington U.S. And even before we have captured and handed wanted fugitive by U.S

It should have been that Pakistani leadership at the time should have promised to catch and hand over those who committed the crime as long as it was proved in court of Law naming those who did the crime. As I said we have done it many times for U.S. and we could have done it again and would have saved thousands of innocent life's

But nevertheless we got involved in Afghanistan at the request of our brothers who believed that Russian the infidels must be stopped, and as they left defeated, some bad and self serving adversaries starting scheming and turned Afghanistan into a catastrophe by aiding and abating despicable elements to make trouble.

We still have large population of Afghans in Pakistan, many of them have settled in big cities and are involved in big businesses and are doing very good.

So dude you only represent doom and gloom because you are our adversary and you keep trying to make trouble, but we as Muslims believe in truth and goodness and this will be successfully proves in near future.

AND THAT IS WHY WE HAVE MORAL HIGH GROUND.

Dude

 

[raveolution]

brother rose mirages are for stop age gap they all will be replace by first initial 150 thunders
these thunders will also replace all F-5 and F-7

The JF17 will initially only replace the older Mirage 3/5's and F7's. Out of PAF's inventory of these aircraft, 70 Mirages were upgraded to ROSE standards and only the F7PG will be retained until such JF17 reaches its mark of 150 and J10 starts induction as well,so that squadron strenghts are not depleted. ie- 2015

 

[nightrider_saulat]

The JF17 will initially only replace the older Mirage 3/5's and F7's. Out of PAF's inventory of these aircraft, 70 Mirages were upgraded to ROSE standards and only the F7PG will be retained until such JF17 reaches its mark of 150 and J10 starts induction as well,so that squadron strenghts are not depleted. ie- 2015

that's what i am saying even all ROSE mirages would be phased out of our inventory after the arrival of first 150 thunders within 2014-15 only PG's will be remain till that time​

 

[Spring Onion]

hmmm whats India is up too?

One surgical strike if they are day dreaming will open up legal front for us to go to India whatever way we want