Middleman Michel had commission pact with Dassault as well for IAF’s Mirage

[Abingdonboy]

A few days back you were quoting Prasun and going bonkers on how dumb the Indian jurnos were and there were was no hanky panky involved.Well who knows maybe someone got their share in the MMRCA too.

Yes nothing has changed in my outlook. I still am confident this is all BS.


Your comment on the MMRCA is nonsense mate.

 

[anant_s]

The Indian media is owing up non-issues and jumping to wrong conclusions. Just today it seems that he former ACM Tyangi is clean despite all the BS the media has stated.


These stupid effers don't have a clue what they are reporting on and are jumping up and down over nothing.


It is infuriating. If even the most basic journalistic practices were followed none of this would have become a storey and now the stupid politicians are going to run with this and disrupt a key parliamentary session that has huge significance for India and its economy. The likes of Burka Dutt and that loud mouth on Times now who are held up as the best journalists in India are only adding to the sensationalism on this topic and not doing any research or applying critical thinking.


It is literally criminal what these journos are doing.

Yellow Journalism

 

[anant_s]

The most frustrated person right now would be ACM Browne.
MMRCA has been conducted in most transparent and exhaustive manner, costly and time taking field trials done and report submitted. In the end righful winner emerged and even though we are fanboys here, there are genuine reasons to be happy.
Now somebody comes and speculates based on a entirely unrelated deal that MMRCA is rigged/bribes involved and what not.
I mean right now even commercial negotiations are not completed and hence the final value of deal is also not known, where is the question of kickbacks. and God forbid if this nonsense leads to delay or cancellation (i'm certain it won't) the only one who suffers is IAF. Remember in case of war, its IAF that will protect us not our Holier than Thou attitude media.

 

[Abingdonboy]

The most frustrated person right now would be ACM Browne.
MMRCA has been conducted in most transparent and exhaustive manner, costly and time taking field trials done and report submitted. In the end righful winner emerged and even though we are fanboys here, there are genuine reasons to be happy.
Now somebody comes and speculates based on a entirely unrelated deal that MMRCA is rigged/bribes involved and what not.
I mean right now even commercial negotiations are not completed and hence the final value of deal is also not known, where is the question of kickbacks. and God forbid if this nonsense leads to delay or cancellation (i'm certain it won't) the only one who suffers is IAF. Remember in case of war, its IAF that will protect us not our Holier than Thou attitude media.

100% Agree mate!

 

[Norboo]

Damn!!!

 

[anant_s]

Damn!!!

I wish there was a diagree button for the person who drew the sketch.

BTW seriously is somebody paying our media (sorry for choice of words) to scuttle the Rafale deal.

 

[Abingdonboy]

I wish there was a diagree button for the person who drew the sketch.

BTW seriously is somebody paying our media (sorry for choice of words) to scuttle the Rafale deal.

I agree with the sentiment. All this BS is looking like a coordinated campaign. The media failed last year in getting what they wanted with the AW deal and now they are trying again?!!

It is classic Indian media- one outlet reports on somthing them all te other outlets pick up the story and repeat it verbatim but add their own twist and take and down their the story goes until you reach a point where everyone is believing the story is now a fact and no one is even investigating the validity of the initial claim.

 

[arp2041]

A few days back you were quoting Prasun and going bonkers on how dumb the Indian jurnos were and there were was no hanky panky involved.Well who knows maybe someone got their share in the MMRCA too.

Even If someone do got kickbacks, why is it a big deal so much so that we are cancelling contracts & threatening our security??

@ Indians, let's be practical here, Bofors scandal was all over news in India & the GOI suffered because of it, but no one doubts that those guns were the ones which won us Kargil & it was only idiotic on our part to not go for more orders & in the end, Army did not induct a single howitzer even after 25 years & ultimately our SECURITY is threatened.

Again Augusta Choppers in my opinion were among the very best & IAF would have been proud of there inductions, purely seeing on tech. grounds. I am sure @sancho & @Abingdonboy would agree with me on this one.

The noises over changes in the requirement from 18000 ft ceiling to 15000 ft was purely on tech. grounds & to make the tender more open as none of the competitors were fulfilling this requirement. Again this contract is on the verge of cancellation & once again IAF's capabilities & our SECURITY is being threatened.

+ Now since the noises have already started over Rafale deal involved in corruption, let me ask any one, wasn't Rafale the BEST choice for IAF & India??? Wasn't Rafale the need of the hour??

By again raising voices over Rafale, we will again threaten our security as IAF is in serious requirement of nos. & capabilities as LCA & FGFA are still years away from induction.

Now when we are inducting the best weapons in our forces, why the question arises of kickbacks, even after offering the best products if someone is offering us bribe, than i can only say that he is the biggest FOOL in the world.

In the End, i only want to say that i am not justifying CORRUPTION, but if given the choice b/w massive corruption & SECURITY OF INDIA, i will choose the LATTER any day. PERIOD.

By Portraying ourselves intolerant towards any type of corruption even at the cost of our national security, we are only playing into the hands of our enemies who are having the last laugh.

 

[acetophenol]

I will kill antony if he does anything with the Mirage upgrade deal. Just fish out the culprits,but the deal must go on

 

[KRAIT]

@arp2041 What's big deal ? Defense is priority. But Corruption even in National Security ? That should be tried for treason.

 

[arp2041]

@arp2041 What's big deal ? Defense is priority. But Corruption even in National Security ? That should be tried for treason.

Mate, I am saying this again, don't get me wrong, I AM NOT JUSTIFYING CORRUPTION, but Security of India is of UTMOST IMPORTANCE for me.

I ask you three questions......

1.) Assuming that there was 0 corruption in Bofors, wasn't those guns the logical choice for IA??? & the best choice as well??
2.) Assuming that there is no corruption in AW choppers, wasn't they tech. best suited for Indian requirements??
3.) Assuming that Rafale deal is 100% corruption free & transparent, aren't they the best choice???

One has to indulge in corruption only when they are offering a sub standard products, which is never the case here.

as @acetophenol said, punish whoever is the corrupt but don't cancel any deal, it must go on.....

 

[KRAIT]

Mate, I am saying this again, don't get me wrong, I AM NOT JUSTIFYING CORRUPTION, but Security of India is of UTMOST IMPORTANCE for me.
I ask you three questions......
1.) Assuming that there was 0 corruption in Bofors, wasn't those guns the logical choice for IA??? & the best choice as well??2.) Assuming that there is no corruption in AW choppers, wasn't they tech. best suited for Indian requirements??3.) Assuming that Rafale deal is 100% corruption free & transparent, aren't they the best choice???One has to indulge in corruption only when they are offering a sub standard products, which is never the case here.as @acetophenol said, punish whoever is the corrupt but don't cancel any deal, it must go on.....

So every money wasted in Kick backs even selecting best option, means that we have less money for other purpose. How about night vision to so man soldiers. Thousands of Best available Bullet proof jackets to soldiers at high tense regions. 200 crore is a BIG amount.

Problem is we accept it as a part of our culture.

Forget weapons just invest in Psychological Counseling of Soldiers, PTSD is a common phenomenon and it has led to War Crimes in Kashmir.

Does all this give good image to world ?

No matter what, making profit n jeopardizing soldier's life.

You talk of Bofors in Kargil, Indian soldiers didn't have proper boots and clothings.

We have limited budget and we can't afford this Corruption as it affects Security.

I can live with 2G scam, not this.

 

[Abingdonboy]

@arp2041 agree wholeheartedly. There is little doubt in my mind that the AW-101 was the best candidate on offer. A lot is being made by the watering down of ASRs especially wrt the decrease in ability to land at certain heights. But since when is it a crime to review and refine ASRs? Especially when doing so opens the door to more contenders entering the fray and negates the possiblity of a single vendor process which itself is a risky situation wrt corruption. And does anyone really think it was realistic in the first place to have the ASR calling for the ability to land at 18,000 ft?!!! When is the last time ANY VVIP went through the MANDATORY 7-10 day aclimitization period in order to travel to such heights?!!

And the fact is look at the damage and outcry these ALLEGATIONS have caused.


They remain unsubstantiated BS IMHO. When the truth comes out is the media going to apologise for their hand in sensationalising this story? For not doing the most basic research?

I agree with arp2041 these a-holes are hurting India's national security. The precedent has been set in the last but has been confirmed now- if you are competitor in a defence deal with India and the final decision doesn't go your way all you have to do is make weak and baseless allegations of wrongdoing and the entire process screeches to a halt and there is the very real possiblity you may get another shot when/if the MoD re-tenders.

India needs to get a grip on this as this is going to start happening more and more mark my words. We have already seen an increase in the number of MoD investigations into defence deals. Just look at the most recent manor defence deals all are plagued with unfounded allegations of wrongdoing that have led to months of delays.

 

[arp2041]

So every money wasted in Kick backs even selecting best option, means that we have less money for other purpose.

Kickbacks means that the firm pitching it's product had to pay some money to Indian officials, it's not the other way round as you are thinking, i m saying this the second time:

KILL THE CULPRIT, DON'T KILL THE DEAL.

 

[KRAIT]

Kickbacks means that the firm pitching it's product had to pay some money to Indian officials, it's not the other way round as you are thinking, i m saying this the second time:

KILL THE CULPRIT, DON'T KILL THE DEAL.

I meant in Corruption as whole.

@Abingdonboy Why don't we set an example to stop these kick backs.

If Bofors scandal resulted into some serious actions and convictions of higher echelon of Govt. , this wouldn't have happened at all. May be we had much better scrutiny process.

If you give a free card and no Punishment at all to a criminal and he commits the crime again, the fault is on you too.

I said don't cancel the deal. But build and give Strictest punishment with changes in our policies to scrutiny everything.

If this deal cancels, it will be because of scandals like Bofors which indeed was a best weapon but we won't get best Heli.