Mian Atif, PTI and Oriya Maqbol Jaan..

[A.A. Khan]

@pzfz

Please google Mormon discrimination they are to this day discriminated and mocked by other Americans. They are denied housing and not allwoed to take part in major inter-church programs.
Mormons gained acceptance with the US govt. after they moved to the present-day state of Utah which was under Mexico at that time. The church had to change its name to avoid detection. The members faced pillaging, massacre, arson. Communities throw them out. They actually founded and built Salt Lake City where they have headquarters. There temple estate is in faraway pockets. Unlike Ahmadis Mormons did'nt have Govt. patronage. British patronage for Ahmadiyya was to weaken political organization among Muslims and keep them out of mainstream.

Pakistan is an Islamic Republic. And its first and foremost purpose is to safeguard the interests of South Asian Muslims, their beliefs and way of life.

 

[TMA]

It is wrong because there is absolutely no material/physical harm or threat of harm to the citizens of the State, were the State to stop declaring Ahmadi's 'non-Muslim' and allow them to call themselves whatever they want.

So why should only material or physical harm be considered harm by the State?
Libel and slander are not material or physical...

@pzfz

Please google Mormon discrimination they are to this day discriminated and mocked by other Americans. They are denied housing and not allwoed to take part in major inter-church programs.
Mormons gained acceptance with the US govt. after they moved to the present-day state of Utah which was under Mexico at that time. The church had to change its name to avoid detection. The members faced pillaging, massacre, arson. Communities throw them out. They actually founded and built Salt Lake City where they have headquarters. There temple estate is in faraway pockets. Unlike Ahmadis Mormons did'nt have Govt. patronage. British patronage for Ahmadiyya was to weaken political organization among Muslims and keep them out of mainstream.

Pakistan is an Islamic Republic. And its first and foremost purpose is to safeguard the interests of South Asian Muslims, their beliefs and way of life.

I would add to safeguard the interests of Pakistani and Occupied Kashmiri Muslims...South Asia is quite big.

 

[A.A. Khan]

@TMA

Term South Asia is used for this geographic region shown below

 

[TMA]

@TMA

Term South Asia is used for this geographic region shown below

View attachment 497350

Yeah I know bruv.
And Pakistan is a relatively small part of it. Like about 30 percent.

 

[Shane]

@django @Burhan Wani @tps77 @Iqbal Ali @DESERT FIGHTER

@Burhan Wani @Windjammer @Areesh @DESERT FIGHTER

Yaar I.K kuch tu khayal karo….

unfortunately i don't know much about qadyanis or what their beliefs are, i have only ever meet 1 qadyani in my life and that too in Australia. All i know about them is that they are declared non-muslims in Pakistan. So i can't answer your question. I was raising my voice for this guy to give our minorities a fair chance to serve their country. Thats it.

One has to be very clear about the actual principle of why Qadyani's are different from other respected Pakistani minorities like Parsis, Christians, Sikhs and Hindus.

Qadyanis always portray themselves as Muslim instead of a non Muslim minority. It is only the people of Pakistan, its constitution and the law of the land that holds them to this fact of being a minority and not the Qadyanis themselves.

If only the Qadyanis acknowledge their own status of a Non-Muslim minority as per the constitution of Pakistan and Islamic jurisprudence that does not recognize them as anywhere close to being Muslims as per Eman of Muslims on Khatm-e-Nabowat of Mohammad-e-Mustafa SAW... If indeed they accept the reality of being non muslims...then it becomes a different matter.

...If Qadyanis call themselves as Non-Muslim, only then they should be accepted in any Governmental position as entitled to them as equal Pakistani and belonging to Pakistani minorities that have full recognition and rights as such but not before and never as Muslims.

That's the reason and the principle that was probably explained to Imran Khan for taking back his appointment of a Qadyani Pakistani - again, The state recognizes them but they don't recognize themselves as Non Muslims.

Because the same Qadyanis don't call themselves non Muslims then it goes completely against the very constitution of Pakistan and the law of the land and the reason why they should not hold a constitutional advisory post created by the constitutionally elected PM of Pakistan.

 

[pzfz]

@pzfz

Please google Mormon discrimination they are to this day discriminated and mocked by other Americans. They are denied housing and not allwoed to take part in major inter-church programs.
Mormons gained acceptance with the US govt. after they moved to the present-day state of Utah which was under Mexico at that time. The church had to change its name to avoid detection. The members faced pillaging, massacre, arson. Communities throw them out. They actually founded and built Salt Lake City where they have headquarters. There temple estate is in faraway pockets. Unlike Ahmadis Mormons did'nt have Govt. patronage. British patronage for Ahmadiyya was to weaken political organization among Muslims and keep them out of mainstream.

Pakistan is an Islamic Republic. And its first and foremost purpose is to safeguard the interests of South Asian Muslims, their beliefs and way of life.

I've grown up with mormons. Also took bible classes in high school. Don't need google experts to tell the facts from fiction. Mormons ARE NOT discriminated against. They haven't been killed, boycotted, and thrown out of their country. There are no laws against them holding jobs in any capacity. The violence over 300 years ago still didn't make the state discriminate against them. Are you justifying majoritarian terrorism?

Pray tell how an economic advisor was going to hurt what you call the interests and way of life of South Asian Muslims.

One has to be very clear about the actual principle of why Qadyani's are different from other respected Pakistani minorities like Parsis, Christians, Sikhs and Hindus.

Qadyanis always portray themselves as Muslim instead of a non Muslim minority. It is only the people of Pakistan, its constitution and the law of the land that holds them to this fact of being a minority and not the Qadyanis themselves.

If only the Qadyanis acknowledge their own status of a Non-Muslim minority as per the constitution of Pakistan and Islamic jurisprudence that does not recognize them as anywhere close to being Muslims as per Eman of Muslims on Khatm-e-Nabowat of Mohammad-e-Mustafa SAW... If indeed they accept the reality of being non muslims...then it becomes a different matter.

...If Qadyanis call themselves as Non-Muslim, only then they should be accepted in any Governmental position as entitled to them as equal Pakistani and belonging to Pakistani minorities that have full recognition and rights as such but not before and never as Muslims.

That's the reason and the principle that was probably explained to Imran Khan for taking back his appointment of a Qadyani Pakistani - again, The state recognizes them but they don't recognize themselves as Non Muslims.

Because the same Qadyanis don't call themselves non Muslims then it goes completely against the very constitution of Pakistan and the law of the land and the reason why they should not hold a constitutional advisory post created by the constitutionally elected PM of Pakistan.

Fascism. You can't tell and constitute what a person believes. Besides the ahmadis aren't begging for you to change what you think of them or what the constitution says (which is incidentally a man-made recent phenomenon). He was one of (the best economist) in a council that has no law-making ability nor does a council which had nothing to do with the issue narrow-minded people keep blabbering about.

 

[Shane]

I've grown up with mormons. Also took bible classes in high school. Don't need google experts to tell the facts from fiction. Mormons ARE NOT discriminated against. They haven't been killed, boycotted, and thrown out of their country. There are no laws against them holding jobs in any capacity. The violence over 300 years ago still didn't make the state discriminate against them. Are you justifying majoritarian terrorism?

Pray tell how an economic advisor was going to hurt what you call the interests and way of life of South Asian Muslims.



Fascism. You can't tell and constitute what a person believes. Besides the ahmadis aren't begging for you to change what you think of them or what the constitution says (which is incidentally a man-made recent phenomenon). He was one of (the best economist) in a council that has no law-making ability nor does a council which had nothing to do with the issue narrow-minded people keep blabbering about.

You can't tell and constitute what a person believes??? Genius!
(even if you mean "dictate", lol, then nobody is dictating them anything but as defined in constitution that a Muslim is La Ilaha IlAllah, Muhammadur Rasool Allah and that there is no Prophet after Muhammad SAW. Since Qadyanis don't believe that then they are not Muslims.)

Besides the ahmadis aren't begging for you to change what you think of them or what the constitution says (which is incidentally a man-made recent phenomenon) ??? Says Who? That's exactly what they want dear, a change in both, lol.

A constitutionally elected PM has the right to dismiss or withdraw a nomination of someone who does not believe in the constitution of Pakistan. LOL . Its that simple dear, get over it already instead of your illogical rant and calling my factual and constitutional position as fascism, lol.

If Qadyanis don't recognize what Pakistan's constitution has ordained for them then they have themselves to blame. Simply, due to their own choice of going against the constitution of Pakistan, they cannot be allowed to hold any constitutional or Governmental positions - and I'm only referring to Constitutional or Government positions. Period.

 

[pzfz]

You can't tell and constitute what a person believes??? Genius!
(even if you mean "dictate", lol, then nobody is dictating them anything but as defined in constitution that a Muslim is La Ilaha IlAllah, Muhammadur Rasool Allah and that there is no Prophet after Muhammad SAW. Since Qadyanis don't believe that then they are not Muslims.)

Besides the ahmadis aren't begging for you to change what you think of them or what the constitution says (which is incidentally a man-made recent phenomenon) ??? Says Who? That's exactly what they want dear, a change in both, lol.

A constitutionally elected PM has the right to dismiss or withdraw a nomination of someone who does not believe in the constitution of Pakistan. LOL . Its that simple dear, get over it already instead of your illogical rant and calling my factual and constitutional position as fascism, lol.

If Qadyanis don't recognize what Pakistan's constitution has ordained for them then they have themselves to blame. Simply, due to their own choice of going against the constitution of Pakistan, they cannot be allowed to hold any constitutional or Governmental positions - and I'm only referring to Constitutional or Government positions. Period.

Dear respected constitutional Muslim, I know you probably think in your tiny brain that you're making sense and being logical and you're welcome to continue to be full of hot air. Like I said, can't help stupid. Maybe more emojis can help with your infantile bile?

 

[A.A. Khan]

@pzfz
Rofl
Please visit a place called Rabwah located in Punjab, Pakistan which is also called Chenab Nagar, which has the biggest community population than any other place. Your stupid opinion is a farce as they are neither boycotted, nor they have been told to leave the country. They study and live major part of their lives in Pakistan, they conceal their identity and use stupid people like you to take asylum in Western countries. Nobody given an f about them.


That Conman Joseph Smith [as called by US atheist TV host Bill Maher] started the restorationaist church in New York State in early 1800s around 1820. And his successor Brigham Young moved the followers to new territory now Utah in 1840s. Please read history they were thrown out from New England area.
You should've also taken Math classes it mite've helped you more as the Mormon church is not much older than 200+ years. IF you really live there can you tell me do Mormons allowed to attend any inter-church programs? Mormons are made a joke by both left and right and their LDS church is grilled on channels more than any other faith. They themselves allow some of it by doing polygamy and have had racist laws in their institutions.

 

[M. Sarmad]

No my friend it's a case where a minority is hell bent on calling themselves something which they are not, without any reasonable grounds, evidence and rationale. Stubbornness to accept it in public and let everyone live in peace. They themselves can't leave it to ALLAH but want other party to leave it to ALLAH.

I had mentioned to my dear friend that we don't want to put our Qadiyani friends in difficult situation(s), they don't have answers to the right questions. For example (this also relates to blasphemy debates we had)

(33:6) "Surely the Nabi has a greater claim over the believers than they have over each other .................. "

[33:6] "The Nabi is closer to the believers than they are to each other,.............."

Who is superior in eyes of our Qadiyani friends. The Messenger Muhammad Peace be upon Him, His Caliphs and companions .... OR ..... Their Messiah Mr Ghulam Ahmed Mirza, and his caliphs and companions?

At worst they are non Muslims, at best they are a sect ........ If Mr Ghulam Ahmed Mirza is not considered a prophet by them, even then he is guilty of division amongst Muslims in times when they needed unity. We call such people who are responsible for division as Khariji (the ones who exit the unity) and punishment for such people would have been .........

Well, my dear friend, there is not and cannot be any reasonable ground, evidence and rationale behind declaring someone a Non Muslim when he insists that he is a Muslim ...

There is no "definition of Islam" agreed upon by all sects. Varying/different human interpretations of the (same) divine revelation essentially tend to be contradictory in nature ... This was pointed out by the honorable Supreme Court of Pakistan in 1953/54 ... Mullahs belonging to different sects couldn't agree upon any definition of Islam (accepted by all) when the court asked them to define "Muslim". .... For details see "Munir's Report of 1954". The honorable judges observed:

Keeping in view the several definitions given by the ulama, need we make any comment except that no two learned divines are agreed on this fundamental? If we attempt our own definition, as each learned divine has done, and that definition differs from that given by all others, we unanimously go out of the fold of Islam. And if we adopt the definition given by any one of the ulama, we remain Muslims according to the view of that alim, but kafirs according to the definition of everyone else.


Your only argument is that they are Non Muslims because the majority of Pakistani Muslims believe so !! ... We need mechanisms to prevent "Tyranny of the Majority" in any democratic government, but unfortunately in Pakistan we have no effective mechanism (or even a will) to prevent legal tyranny and constitutional discrimination against the minorities or minority sects.

 

[El Sidd]

Dear respected constitutional Muslim, I know you probably think in your tiny brain that you're making sense and being logical and you're welcome to continue to be full of hot air. Like I said, can't help stupid. Maybe more emojis can help with your infantile bile?

Constitutional Indian Muslim follow deen i ilahist ideology

 

[Musafir117]

As per Allah and Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) the one who say kalima is muslim:
There is none worthy of worship and muhammad (pbuh) is his messenger

Its pakistan's ulemas creation and in their fancy world they defeated Ahmadis. If its so obvious get all muslim countries to make it a law. When you talk to arabs about this law in Pakistan, some of them clearly say its wrong and no one has right to say anyone else is not muslim when that persobs says I am muslim.

Theere molvi made a new kslima for them
And these jahils believe in it. This there Kalima now according to them to be a Muslim.

La Ilaha Ill Allah Muhammad Khatamul Rasool Allah.

And what we believe is


La Ilaha Ill Allah Muhammadur Rasool Allah.

 

[El Sidd]

Theere molvi made a new kslima for them
And these jahils believe in it. This there Kalima now according to them to be a Muslim.

La Ilaha Ill Allah Muhammad Khatamul Rasool Allah.

And what we believe is


La Ilaha Ill Allah Muhammadur Rasool Allah.

So what is your opinion if someone claims prophethood right now, proclaims his writings are divinely guided, considers himself the Messiah to all Muslims and wants to be called the caliph?

 

[Musafir117]

So what is your opinion if someone claims prophethood right now, proclaims his writings are divinely guided, considers himself the Messiah to all Muslims and wants to be called the caliph?

It’s gonna be long a long useless discussion which I been though couple of time don’t wanna jump in it again and again. Check my post history if you have time.
My above post is about how a person become a Muslim and what to do. Kalima and firm believe on basic pillars of Islam.

And BTW second coming of Hadrat Esa ES how you call him an ex nabi or nothing? What would be his status? A Reformer? No no coz Hadrat Imam Mehdi will be a reformer so what Hadrat Esa ES do?

 

[El Sidd]

It’s gonna be long a long useless discussion which I been though couple of time don’t wanna jump in it again and again. Check my post history if you have time.
My above post is about how a person become a Muslim and what to do. Kalima and firm believe on basic pillars of Islam.

I am a one line man. Its a legend by now.

second coming of Hadrat Esa ES

If anyone claims to be it will be major News as much now as back 100 years ago.

You have a weird concept of Time.