Mechanised Divisions Pakistan Army

[PanzerKiel]

my question was something else , images were attached to post before i deleted that , but i showed 16 x M109s + 3 M113/Talha Command APCs at some garrisson , so i was wondering if 2 M109s were missing ,
The indians also follow same amount of Arty , 18 K-9s per regiment as shown in a sat image.

Generally. two to three pieces are missing in every Regiment due to regular maintenance or overhaul.... Otherwise, tables of organization and equipment for both armies are ALMOST equal.

 

[farooqbhai007]

Generally. two to three pieces are missing in every Regiment due to regular maintenance or overhaul.... Otherwise, tables of organization and equipment for both armies are ALMOST equal.

ahh i see

 

[Signalian]

my question was something else , images were attached to post before i deleted that , but i showed 16 x M109s + 3 M113/Talha Command APCs at some garrisson , so i was wondering if 2 M109s were missing ,
The indians also follow same amount of Arty , 18 K-9s per regiment as shown in a sat image.

I saw what you posted and went a step ahead of your question to answer you. Its at commander's discretion how many pieces of equipment he allots to a certain force.

The first pic you posted had 3 x batteries of 6 x M-109 each, totaling 18 x M-109.
The second pic you posted had 16 x M-109. Regarding this pic, maybe you took that from OSINT sources. These 16 were standing under the sun. What if other 2 ended up in EME workshop ? or HIT ? or were sent for any demonstration ? or standing under a covered shed somewhere ?

 

[farooqbhai007]

I saw what you posted and went a step ahead of your question to answer you. Its at commander's discretion how many pieces of equipment he allots to a certain force.

The first pic you posted had 3 x batteries of 6 x M-109 each, totaling 18 x M-109.
The second pic you posted had 16 x M-109. Regarding this pic, maybe you took that from OSINT sources. These 16 were standing under the sun. What if other 2 ended up in EME workshop ? or HIT ? or were sent for any demonstration ? or standing under a covered shed somewhere ?

Ah i see , PanzerKiel answered already but thanks for replying,
Also the 18 SPH pic was of K-9 Vajras of ze 31st armoured division's Artillery brigade of Indian Army.
While the 16 M109 was from M109 compound in a garrison , so probably the arty would have been in Shed or at maintenance.

 

[Sine Nomine]

Either PA takes Kashmir or let the Kashmir/LOC drama drag on for another century. Lose 50 soldiers annually for PA and 100 soldiers annually for IA on LOC. Drag on Siachen issue side by side also. Keep buying weapons like 5th gen aircraft and 4th gen tanks and nuclear submarines while universities and hospitals can be built and money can be thrown in research. A utopian view of Pakistan as a welfare state could be thought of eventually, which is impossible to even think right now.

I suppose signalian i.d hasn't been hacked by some rough person.

 

[Signalian]

I suppose signalian i.d hasn't been hacked by some rough person.

Extremely rough, in fact a rogue person

If i have offended you through my post then i apologize to you, if you had to bear my words generally then i am thankful to you.

Its the kashmiris who are supposed to be the deciding factor, do they really want to be a part of Pakistan ? do they want independence from India and also dont want to join Pakistan rather want an independent country for themselves ?

My concern is that Pakistani military has to solve this issue of LOC ASAP but unfortunately military doesn't have strength in numbers neither is equipped perfectly for a war that can end in any direction, even a nuclear outcome is possible.

So buy all the VT-4s or M-113s or churn out AK-IIs from HIT (whenever) but which one of these can PA really deploy in J&K mountains ?

 

[Sine Nomine]

Extremely rough, in fact a rogue person

If i have offended you through my post then i apologize to you, if you had to bear my words generally then i am thankful to you.

Its the kashmiris who are supposed to be the deciding factor, do they really want to be a part of Pakistan ? do they want independence from India and also dont want to join Pakistan rather want an independent country for themselves ?

My concern is that Pakistani military has to solve this issue of LOC ASAP but unfortunately military doesn't have strength in numbers neither is equipped perfectly for a war that can end in any direction, even a nuclear outcome is possible.

So buy all the VT-4s or M-113s or churn out AK-IIs from HIT (whenever) but which one of these can PA really deploy in J&K mountains ?

Some time ago when i purposed going ballistic,it was you who said that it's not in our interest to fight a total war.
Our fight in J&K requires almost 30 LID's trained in mountain warfare no less than that,otherwise this issue would drag on.
P.S:-You should probably read about first failed coup of PA(If you haven't)the main character has same thinking,according to him this would drag on.


I don't know if this has been posted already but HIT has started M109A2 rebuilt factory.
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HIT-Products

@Bilal Khan (Quwa)

 

[Raja Porus]

30 LID'

You mean 30 Light infantry divs!!!?. That's greater than the entire PA

 

[Sine Nomine]

You mean 30 Light infantry divs!!!?. That's greater than the entire PA

Mountain Warfare is nasty business,for reaching a point where we can safely flex our muscles when it comes to J&K we almost need a ground force which is triple the size of current one(that's purely my assumption).

 

[Raja Porus]

Mountain Warfare is nasty business,for reaching a point where we can safely flex our muscles when it comes to J&K we almost need a ground force which is triple the size of current one(that's purely my assumption).

That means we should forget taking Kashmir by force

 

[Signalian]

Some time ago when i purposed going ballistic,it was you who said that it's not in our interest to fight a total war.
Our fight in J&K requires almost 30 LID's trained in mountain warfare no less than that,otherwise this issue would drag on.
P.S:-You should probably read about first failed coup of PA(If you haven't)the main character has same thinking,according to him this would drag on.

Any advance in J&K will spread to IB at some point and a total war will begin. PA is getting tanks, APCs and SP Arty etc. These machines are used in plains and desert, maybe hills to some extent.

PA doesnt have required man power to take J&K, not even the resources. So if the conflict is started in Kashmir and J&K cannot be taken while a total war starts, whats the end result ? You dont get J&K, you lose territory somewhere else and risk a nuclear war.

PA and IA both are losing soldiers on LOC and in Siachen. what is to be done ? There is no end in sight.

Regarding your PS:
The threat of CMs, BMs, surgical strikes, retaliatory strikes, proxy war through ongoing insurgency , nuclear war etc was not at that time. This 5th gen warfare is a destructive game.

Mountain Warfare is nasty business,for reaching a point where we can safely flex our muscles when it comes to J&K we almost need a ground force which is triple the size of current one(that's purely my assumption).

If the numbers are not there, then compensation is mobility and fire power. This concept is not new, PA already uses this concept in infantry regiments (LATs).

There could be a way, the helicopter use of Vietnam war era. 100's of transport helicopters, those which can operate at night and in adverse weather in mountain regions at high altitudes. That would require complete cooperation from PAF - to provide air cover, carry mountain strikes and conduct DEAD Ops. There are hardly any air assault formations else than SF. Kargil was a covert Ops till its compromise, and lacked PAF support. This one could be conventional warfare on peaks and covert Ops in urban streets of J&K, both amalgamated into each other.

So this opens the topic of AIrborne and Air assault Ops in PA. Not from SSG like in COIN Ops but a Brigade level or Divisional level Ops from Air Assault Infantry. This would mean raising new formations. 30 LIDs you said ? I don't know. 10, 20 or 30. How much progress can be made before India fires first CM or India assaults on IB or before Uncle SAM starts screaming.

 

[Raja Porus]

Does anyone has new pictures of the VT4s of PA?

 

[Raja Porus]

Seems like 8 inf div, Sialkot. @PanzerKiel is this in service or trials only

 

[PanzerKiel]

View attachment 709359
Seems like 8 inf div, Sialkot. @PanzerKiel is this in service or trials only

I used it somewhere about 8 years ago once it was finally inducted.....

 

[Raja Porus]

I used it somewhere about 8 years ago once it was finally inducted.....

Company level?