Mecca Royal Clock Hotel Tower is an insult to Islam and to taste

[Dubious]

Well honestly I don't like the complete idea of it. They should have used some alternative to meet the needs. There is a video posted by Al Hussain in this thread and with all lights it leaves impression of vegas instead of pilgrim place KSA should try to preserve the things in their originals since they have significance and respect in believes.

No it doesnt look that bad!

History is not important than a human being... if i was the King, i will always take decision considering human well being.
This is the teaching of Quran!
Hajjis have to be in Mecca and hotels are already far away... you will know it once you get there!

How will they expand the masjid further (in future) if they keep building the hotels right at the boundary?!

 

[BATMAN]

@Talon we can only try to follow the humbleness and as you do not disagree with the need of hotel but you are not happy with making it expensive... than this is another debate.

How will they expand the masjid further (in future) if they keep building the hotels right at the boundary?!

Well than they need to hire some genius architect, otherwise Mecca was a small valley.
You can find 10-20 years old pictures of Mecca, very easily on web.

 

[Dubious]

@Talon we can only try to follow the humbleness and as you do not disagree with the need of hotel but you are not happy with making it expensive... than this is another debate.

I have no problems with a hotel but I do have a problem with people whining and showing off their wealth...its like daring Qiyamat to come by doing every single sign that was stated in hadith!

And yes I have a problem with wasting wealth...if they have soo much money, build a large simple hotel (affordable to eveyone or atleast having different digree of rooms so to cover different people) and if you still have some surplus... give free umrah and hajj packages instead of wasting it on extravagance! And yes from the pictures it does look like Vegas though when you are there it is not ...Pictures also didnt do it justice!

All I am saying the 1 place which Muslims could say that they go to do pilgrimage is to escape from the worldly affairs and humble their inner animal cant even say that...

Well than they need to hire some genius architect, otherwise Mecca was a small valley.
You can find 10-20 years old pictures of Mecca, very easily on web.

Yes I know...
I am aware of this

 

[BATMAN]

Why not change the 7th century code of Sharia though, that of lashing, stoning, beheading, amputating PUBLICLY?

Codes defined by Quran cannot be changed, but buildings can always be built and the only heritage is Mecca.

 

[Chrome9]

You forgot to address the issue why require a mall where you go to be "humble" does humble have a new definition now...where you show off your wealth and try not to be equal to a normal human being? or maybe you whine about how much you worshiped and want your home right next to the masjid?

Oh all this whistle wearing 2 pieces of white clothes...lovely!

I have no probs with your malls in Jeddah...But my question is an honest one...cant you at least leave luxury while doing Hajj and Umrah?!

Arent we supposed to go for Hajj and Umrah to be humble, closer to ALLAH and also for worshiping plus to clean ourselves of worldly affections? How is that possible while living in a 5 star hotel and shopping in a mall right next to the Kabaa?


I am roughly on the same page as you....I dont see majestic hotels where Hindus go to worship...The same with Buddhist and same with Vatican...you see small hotels squeezed in the space available...expensive yea...but at least they are not lavish...so I get the objection about the lavishness and all...even I object that why couldnt they have just a large piece of block as a building...whats with all the waste in money? You got money give people free hajj packages!

@al-Hasani @Yzd Khalifa @Arabian Legend

You assume that the people who use these facilities are not humble? For a muslim person who works very hard and wants to spend his halal earned money on accommodation makes him "not equal to a normal human being." Again, I say wealth is such a relative thing, the emirate businessman's accommodation at the Abraj ul bait may seem lavish to you, however, your 3 star accommodation may seem equally as lavish to the poor Nigerian family that has come to do hajj after selling their livestock. (I'm just using an example here).
The truth is you can find all sorts of accommodation in Makkah, Things that suit all budgets and I've pretty much experienced all of them. You say that living in these places distracts you from pilgrimage, my personal experience begs to differ. Whenever I stay at a place closer to haram sharif I have much more peace of mind and find that I'm not rushed and far less stressed during the rituals. You find people's tempers are usually through the roof in makkah. Mostly because the havn't had decent sleep and are hot and tired. When you know you have easily accessible clean accommodation near-by it makes the whole thing much more convenient. I believe, in my very humble opinion that the majority of people should experience this.. the only way to do that is to go vertical.

Now some people argue that "no, you should do it the way the prophet did it." Fine each to their own I say, next time instead of flying to Saudi please take some camels and a tent. Leave your mobile phone at home and take some cooking pans with you. If you are really puritan shun all worldly things. Fact of the matter is Islam is an easy religion. You don't have to punish yourself and Umrah/Hajj isn't about that. Be simple and humble, but don't assume others are less simple and humble than you just because they can afford a nicer place to stay. You have no idea what their intentions are or what they have been through to earn that money.

Is their an argument that people are priced out from affordable accommodation closer to haram sharif? Definitely! But that has always been the case. This isn't the first 5 star hotel to be built. If anything it eases the burden.

You forgot to address the issue why require a mall where you go to be "humble" does humble have a new definition now...where you show off your wealth and try not to be equal to a normal human being? or maybe you whine about how much you worshiped and want your home right next to the masjid?

Oh all this whistle wearing 2 pieces of white clothes...lovely!

I have no probs with your malls in Jeddah...But my question is an honest one...cant you at least leave luxury while doing Hajj and Umrah?!

Arent we supposed to go for Hajj and Umrah to be humble, closer to ALLAH and also for worshiping plus to clean ourselves of worldly affections? How is that possible while living in a 5 star hotel and shopping in a mall right next to the Kabaa?


I am roughly on the same page as you....I dont see majestic hotels where Hindus go to worship...The same with Buddhist and same with Vatican...you see small hotels squeezed in the space available...expensive yea...but at least they are not lavish...so I get the objection about the lavishness and all...even I object that why couldnt they have just a large piece of block as a building...whats with all the waste in money? You got money give people free hajj packages!

@al-Hasani @Yzd Khalifa @Arabian Legend

You assume that the people who use these facilities are not humble? For a muslim person who works very hard and wants to spend his halal earned money on accommodation makes him "not equal to a normal human being." Again, I say wealth is such a relative thing, the emirate businessman's accommodation at the Abraj ul bait may seem lavish to you, however, your 3 star accommodation may seem equally as lavish to the poor Nigerian family that has come to do hajj after selling their livestock. (I'm just using an example here).
The truth is you can find all sorts of accommodation in Makkah, Things that suit all budgets and I've pretty much experienced all of them. You say that living in these places distracts you from pilgrimage, my personal experience begs to differ. Whenever I stay at a place closer to haram sharif I have much more peace of mind and find that I'm not rushed and far less stressed during the rituals. You find people's tempers are usually through the roof in makkah. Mostly because the havn't had decent sleep and are hot and tired. When you know you have easily accessible clean accommodation near-by it makes the whole thing much more convenient. I believe, in my very humble opinion that the majority of people should experience this.. the only way to do that is to go vertical.

Now some people argue that "no, you should do it the way the prophet did it." Fine each to their own I say, next time instead of flying to Saudi please take some camels and a tent. Leave your mobile phone at home and take some cooking pans with you. If you are really puritan shun all worldly things. Fact of the matter is Islam is an easy religion. You don't have to punish yourself and Umrah/Hajj isn't about that. Be simple and humble, but don't assume others are less simple and humble than you just because they can afford a nicer place to stay. You have no idea what their intentions are or what they have been through to earn that money.

Is their an argument that people are priced out from affordable accommodation closer to haram sharif? Definitely! But that has always been the case. This isn't the first 5 star hotel to be built. If anything it eases the burden.

 

[BATMAN]

How will they expand the masjid further (in future) if they keep building the hotels right at the boundary?!

That's a good question but the new hotel has been built behind the previously existed hotels.
I wonder most how to expand.. safa marwa!

I do have a problem with people whining and showing off their wealth

That makes two of us!
This is social sickness, we have this issue in Pakistan most and people don't feel it there, we have hungry labor busy building houses for filthy rich.

 

[Dubious]

You assume that the people who use these facilities are not humble? For a muslim person who works very hard and wants to spend his halal earned money on accommodation makes him "not equal to a normal human being." Again, I say wealth is such a relative thing, the emirate businessman's accommodation at the Abraj ul bait may seem lavish to you, however, your 3 star accommodation may seem equally as lavish to the poor Nigerian family that has come to do hajj after selling their livestock. (I'm just using an example here).

True it is relative...However, an average from the no. of people who come for Hajj how many have sold half their properties or even used up all their life savings can afford the luxury? Isnt Haram the 1 place where people can feel equal? Isnt that what it was for unity of everyone no matter what their background?

The truth is you can find all sorts of accommodation in Makkah, Things that suit all budgets and I've pretty much experienced all of them.

I have not been fortunate but yes I have seen at least 2-3 different levels of accommodation...the really low level which should be illegal basically coz they dont have hygiene....and should prob be sued! the average moderate level which was at a walking distance but why whine you are in the holy city!

You say that living in these places distracts you from pilgrimage, my personal experience begs to differ. Whenever I stay at a place closer to haram sharif I have much more peace of mind and find that I'm not rushed and far less stressed during the rituals. You find people's tempers are usually through the roof in makkah. Mostly because the havn't had decent sleep and are hot and tired. When you know you have easily accessible clean accommodation near-by it makes the whole thing much more convenient. I believe, in my very humble opinion that the majority of people should experience this.. the only way to do that is to go vertical.

Not everyone is blessed with wealth! So many understand what they have to face but mind you a normal person may/ can get disturbed and how is it fair? Shaitan is everywhere you cant stop the mind from wandering off esp when you are being all humble and some one comes and struts their stuff around?!

Now some people argue that "no, you should do it the way the prophet did it." Fine each to their own I say, next time instead of flying to Saudi please take some camels and a tent. Leave your mobile phone at home and take some cooking pans with you. If you are really puritan shun all worldly things.

Why bounce on extremes? Either have the world's luxury or be a beggar? Where is the moderation that Islam preached?

Fact of the matter is Islam is an easy religion. You don't have to punish yourself and Umrah/Hajj isn't about that.

But it is also not about living lavishly...why cant you live like a normal man for the days you are closer to something sacred? I gave examples of Buddhist and Hindu pilgrims who behave normal and humble instead of signing in and living lavishly when you come to do God's bidding for peace of the soul...wasnt that our motto? Even the Vatican doesnt have such luxurious hotels...they make do in whatever small places they have...but people still visit it...and they experience something different than their daily lives...when will Rich Muslims behave like a normal man and experience the difference? Why always hide in their comfort zone soo much that they fail to see their reason to go to Mekkah is to be closer to ALLAH and minimize their worldly needs...

Be simple and humble, but don't assume others are less simple and humble than you just because they can afford a nicer place to stay. You have no idea what their intentions are or what they have been through to earn that money.

Alhamdulillah even if I couldnt afford some 5 star hotel in Mekkah I would be just happy to have done my Umrah! But I guess to one his own! Maybe because we dont get to do Hajj and Umrah everytime ...its an opportunity to us so we dont take it for granted!

Is their an argument that people are priced out from affordable accommodation closer to haram sharif? Definitely! But that has always been the case. This isn't the first 5 star hotel to be built. If anything it eases the burden.

what burden?

 

[Multani]

I have no problems with a hotel but I do have a problem with people whining and showing off their wealth...its like daring Qiyamat to come by doing every single sign that was stated in hadith!

And yes I have a problem with wasting wealth...if they have soo much money, build a large simple hotel (affordable to eveyone or atleast having different digree of rooms so to cover different people) and if you still have some surplus... give free umrah and hajj packages instead of wasting it on extravagance! And yes from the pictures it does look like Vegas though when you are there it is not ...Pictures also didnt do it justice!

All I am saying the 1 place which Muslims could say that they go to do pilgrimage is to escape from the worldly affairs and humble their inner animal cant even say that...

Yes I know...
I am aware of this

ma sha Allah, a great post sister!

@Aeronaut


Why not change the 7th century code of Sharia though, that of lashing, stoning, beheading, amputating PUBLICLY?
Something a Islamic Jamhuriat of Pakistan is not doing to not offend the western investors?
Hypocrisy?

There is no Advanced country among 57 OIC nation.
Shame...right?

Pakistan has not been able to amend Islamic/Sharia laws on RIBA = Interest as per Quran since how long? Supreme court of Pakistan also gave up on this matter because it is not practical. How many people you would fool with such a alien impractical concept? Even the champion and guardian of Islam Saudi is paying Interest on its loan to IMF/WB.

Pakistan as an Islamic country is heavily borrowing from all the quarters of the world to balance its books to borrow further and paying the RIBA since years...

And we talk about Saudi modernisation as a controversy?

what a hprrible indian troll

 

[Chrome9]

True it is relative...However, an average from the no. of people who come for Hajj how many have sold half their properties or even used up all their life savings can afford the luxury? Isnt Haram the 1 place where people can feel equal? Isnt that what it was for unity of everyone no matter what their background?

True but what can we do? The ideal situation would be to have affordable moderate housing for everyone. I agree it's sad that poorer people are priced out of range but what is the solution? Having communist-like Utopia where all he buildings are the same standard and price? It's just not feasible.

I have not been fortunate but yes I have seen at least 2-3 different levels of accommodation...the really low level which should be illegal basically coz they dont have hygiene....and should prob be sued! the average moderate level which was at a walking distance but why whine you are in the holy city!

Exactly, there is truly terrible/unhygienic accommodation, but we have to ask why? It's because there is demand. If you close down that - well it may well be the only place some people can afford. But as you said, instead of looking at other people we should concentrate on our pilgrimage and make use of the time in the holy city.

Why bounce on extremes? Either have the world's luxury or be a beggar? Where is the moderation that Islam preached?

Brother, this wasn't directed at you, rather those people who take extreme arguments. It was a "tanzia jawaab" agreed middle way is most preferred in Islam.

But it is also not about living lavishly...why cant you live like a normal man for the days you are closer to something sacred? I gave examples of Buddhist and Hindu pilgrims who behave normal and humble instead of signing in and living lavishly when you come to do God's bidding for peace of the soul...wasnt that our motto? Even the Vatican doesnt have such luxurious hotels...they make do in whatever small places they have...but people still visit it...and they experience something different than their daily lives...when will Rich Muslims behave like a normal man and experience the difference? Why always hide in their comfort zone soo much that they fail to see their reason to go to Mekkah is to be closer to ALLAH and minimize their worldly needs..

Agreed there is no need to be lavish, or act inappropriately miserly. Middle way is best. But we are talking about one hotel complex in particular. Abraj ul bayt. Actually most of the accommodation is quite simple. If you compare the standards of MOST rooms, they are simple, quite small but hyegienic. Its just the LOCATION that causes it to be expensive. I certainly wouldn't spend that much money on a room of similar quality on say a family holiday.

what burden?

The fact that if this wan't built it would mean more smaller 5 star hotels being built to accommodate pilgrims which would mean that the cheaper accommodation would have to be pushed even more away from haram making it even more diffcult for those Hajjis. Building this has lessened the burden as more pilgrims are closer and can access the sites by foot.

 

[Dubious]

True but what can we do? The ideal situation would be to have affordable moderate housing for everyone. I agree it's sad that poorer people are priced out of range but what is the solution? Having communist-like Utopia where all he buildings are the same standard and price? It's just not feasible.

Not feasible or not in demand for everyone to live in moderately priced accommodations?

Exactly, there is truly terrible/unhygienic accommodation, but we have to ask why? It's because there is demand. If you close down that - well it may well be the only place some people can afford. But as you said, instead of looking at other people we should concentrate on our pilgrimage and make use of the time in the holy city.

I am saying close that and invest in clean places for even the poor...And yes we should concentrate on our pilgrimage...but arent the Saudis in charge to provide for the pilgrims? or does this providing proportional to $$

Brother, this wasn't directed at you, rather those people who take extreme arguments. It was a "tanzia jawaab" agreed middle way is most preferred in Islam.

Sorry about that then

Agreed there is no need to be lavish, or act inappropriately miserly. Middle way is best. But we are talking about one hotel complex in particular. Abraj ul bayt. Actually most of the accommodation is quite simple. If you compare the standards of MOST rooms, they are simple, quite small but hyegienic. Its just the LOCATION that causes it to be expensive. I certainly wouldn't spend that much money on a room of similar quality on say a family holiday.

Why is the land soo expensive then? Cant the govt do something to ensure that the moderate hotels be closer to haram so everyone can afford it and all the lavish hotels at the back so that those who can afford that can also afford a ride from that hotel to Haram? Just a thought on balancing out and trying to get as equal as possible?

The fact that if this wan't built it would mean more smaller 5 star hotels being built to accommodate pilgrims which would mean that the cheaper accommodation would have to be pushed even more away from haram making it even more diffcult for those Hajjis. Building this has lessened the burden as more pilgrims are closer and can access the sites by foot.

I get that burden...but this hotel has put a new burden on those who cant afford it...to work more years before preforming their pilgrimage...that is again a burden!

 

[ashok321]

Codes defined by Quran cannot be changed, but buildings can always be built and the only heritage is Mecca.

Riba is haram as per Quran.
Why not stop it?
Saudi/Kuwait is paying to IMF/WB/ADB for loooong time.

 

[Chrome9]

Why is the land soo expensive then? Cant the govt do something to ensure that the moderate hotels be closer to haram so everyone can afford it and all the lavish hotels at the back so that those who can afford that can also afford a ride from that hotel to Haram? Just a thought on balancing out and trying to get as equal as possible?

I guess the crux of the problem is these are not government only business's. The people who invest in the construction of the hotel need to get their investment back. How do they do that? From the pilgrims, which pilgrims? The ones that can afford it - . Even if the buildings/land are Saudi owned the management are usually foreign chains, Hilton/movenipik etc they care about profits so increasing the price further.

About you're suggestion about clean moderate priced accommodation close to haram for people on a moderate budget. I whole-hardheartedly support it! Maybe that would mean the Saudi Government having to subsidize it. But it would be worth it - think about how many problems would be solved for all those poor people who have to walk miles/pay for taxis because they're priced out of range. Yes have simple buildings - but you understand they will still have to be very tall.

 

[al-Hasani]

To all My arab Friends


The OP is not even bengali but rather a Tamil pretending to be Muslim and bengali

I know him from other forum's where he's spreading propaganda in Open against Saudi govt and Most important always quote the posts of @Yzd Khalifa @al-Hasani.He's a pathological liar.

He has dedicated thread in the other forum for posting bad and fake news about Saudi arabia.

Interesting. Thanks for the heads up. Indeed we know what he is up to. You are welcome to share more information and then somebody should make a thread about him on the Bangladeshi section of the forum. People should know.

@IamBengali

Funny that you mention it. A user mentioned another Bangladeshi user that was apparently doing the same on another forum. Can't remember his name but I recall a similar username here. USBengali or something.

Those two-faced trolls should be exposed for what they are and their ill intentions and intentions of trolling.

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Regarding some of the recent discussion.

I don't understand about this equal thing discussion? The Hajj was never for all. Only those who could afford it or who dared to embark on the long and dangerous travel. Some pilgrims were always more rich than others and thus stayed at better hotels or earlier at better houses where they were hosted by local Makkawis. This will always be the case regardless of the amount of hotels or how many stars the hotels are going to have.

Also where you are staying has nothing to do with the spiritual journey or religious obligations during hajj or umrah. There all people are equal. And there is still an option of not living in any 4-5 star hotels. It's an OPTION though. And that option should be available. There is clearly a demand. We live in year 2014.

Also talking about esthetics when only 10% of the expansion work and all the works around the central neighborhoods of Makkah are completed is also WAY too soon and not serious.

I myself am not going to pass judgement until all is finished and that will take at least 6-10 years.

 

[kouroshkourosh]

I think building a skyscraper hotel or building over the most holy place on the earth is not a good action.
I dont know why saudis have done this.

 

[BATMAN]

I think building a skyscraper hotel or building over the most holy place on the earth is not a good action.
I dont know why saudis have done this.

You better explain this first:
http://english.alarabiya.net/en/New...-not-Makkah-must-be-the-Qibla-of-Muslims.html