gogbot
BANNED
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2009
- Messages
- 2,201
- Reaction score
- 0
India reveals plan to develop indigenous medium fighter
The project will have at least a 10 year development cycle.
So no prototype will be rolled out before 2020.
MCA News & Discussions
- Thread starter Gabbar
- Start date
India reveals plan to develop indigenous medium fighter
The project will have at least a 10 year development cycle.
So no prototype will be rolled out before 2020.
unicorn148
FULL MEMBER
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2009
- Messages
- 595
- Reaction score
- 0
- Country
- Location
The GTRE's design envisions achieving a fan pressure ratio of 4:1 and an overall pressure ratio of 27:1, which it believes will permit the Tejas to "supercruise" GTRE is to fit production Tejas aircraft with an axisymmetric, multi-axis thrust-vectoring nozzle to further enhance the LCA's agility
only thing is stealth and india has experience in composites and can develop stealth features it self and experience gained from FFGA
MCA will be ready by 2020 so theres lot of time even the Wind tunnel testing is also over
only thing is stealth and india has experience in composites and can develop stealth features it self and experience gained from FFGA
MCA will be ready by 2020 so theres lot of time even the Wind tunnel testing is also over
India's "Next Generation Fighter Aircraft" (Formerly MCA)
In August 2008, right about the time the Indian Air Force had decided to officially kickstart procedures to get the Medium Combat Aircraft (MCA) off the realm of theory, then Chief of Air Staff Fali Major happened to bump into DRDO chief M Natarajan and then HAL chairman Ashok Baweja at an industry suppliers function in Bangalore. The Chief was mildly irritated that both Baweja and Natarajan had provided media sound-bytes and interviews suggesting that the MCA would have "fifth generation technologies". He impressed upon both gentlemen, over tea, that if the MCA went the LCA way, it would be not just unacceptable to the air force, but an act of criminal disregard for the country's security. "Give the air force a bloody first-rate fourth generation aeroplane. That is the job before you," he said.
Two months later, in October 2008, the name of the MCA programme was changed (on recommendation to the Secretary, Defence Production) to "Next Generation Fighter Aircraft", though MCA continues to be used alternatively without any particular distinction.
As per official documentation by the IAF, it wants the MCA to be a twin-pilot configured multirole stealth aircraft capable of "close air support, all weather interception, air defence suppression, long-range strike, electronic attack, limited command & control and reconnaisance" -- that's the profile from an official IAF wishlist to the ADA last year. That might roll right off the air force's tongue, like off a brochure, but they're deadly serious. Putting all speculation to rest when it officially began dialogue about the MCA in 2008, the IAF said it was not willing to look at a strike aircraft with other capabilities. It wants a fully multirole (preferably, swingrole) aircraft for the job.
As we speak, a joint committee of several bodies involved with the NGFA is finetuning the configuration of the final jet, before work begins on building a tech demonstrator, three prototype vehicles and two production series trial jets -- the wind tunnel model unveiled at Yelahanka in February 2009 is largely what the aircraft will look like, though there are three other variants that have not been displayed yet. A twin-engine delta planfrom version, which was a direct derivative from the LCA, has since been shelved -- low observable requirements demanded a fully new airframe approach, which finally ended in the design that people got to see at Aero India 2009. While the wind-tunnel model, fabricated by a Bangalore-based engineering firm, is the product of an ADA/HAL study, there will be dramatic changes yet to the aircraft's intakes (utterly radar friendly, according to the IAF), vertical stabilisers and dorsal section, say sources.
Air Chief Marshal PV Naik, in his first interaction with the ADA last year, seemed to nitpick on indigenous radar capability, more than anything else when it came to the topic of the MCA. Sources say he was deeply incensed when given a brief on the Multi-mode Radar (MMR), pioneered by the Electronics Research & Development Establishment (LRDE) for the LCA Tejas programme. In a chat with the director of the ADA, he said the next aircraft that the agency designed and built, needed to be centred around an Indian active array combat radar. In fact, the LRDE has already proposed a second radar (deriving from the MMR) for the MCA, with technological spin-offs currently being gleaned from its partnership with Israel's Elta. But Naik didn't buy that. He said it didn't matter what the DRDO was learning from who at this stage. When it came down to putting the nails in, he said he wanted a fully Indian radar on the MCA.
While configuration fructifies, the following work has begun on the MCA in full earnest: DARE, Bangalore has appointed a special team to begin identifying avionics and cockpit packages for the first prototype vehicle, and will supply this in published form to the ADA by July 2010. This will include cockpit electronics, cockpit configuration, man-machine interface, mission console systems and computers/software with a focus on data fusion and modular architecture. The LRDE will, in about the same time frame, provide a separate project proposal for an all new radar, to be re-designated for the MCA, as a derivative of the MMR currently being completed with technology from Israel's ELTA. LRDE will independently look in the market for a partner for active array technology, though it communicated to ADA in June 2009 that it had sufficient R&D available to build a reliable AESA prototype with assistance from Bharat Electronics Ltd and two private firms based in Hyderabad.
There is a collossal amount of work going on as far as materials is concerned for the MCA/NGFA. With the IAF unmoving in its demand for an aircraft that has stealth characteristics built into it from the drawing board forward, the DRDO has powered teams within its materials laboratories in Pune and Hyderabad to come up with new composities, low observable materials fabrication techniques, and of course, radar-absorbent control surface aggregates, airframe materials and paints.
The most crucial part of the programme is of course the engine. The Kaveri-Snecma turbofan is being counted upon vigorously to be ready to power prototypes of the MCA by the middle of this decade. There is no Plan-B just yet as far as engines go. However, technologies such as single crystal and nickel-based superalloys in turbofans are still some way off as far as Indian development is concerned -- the IAF wants the use of both to be a given in the engines that power the MCA.
According to the ADA, the government will look to purchase upto 250 MCAs when its done and ready -- not just as a replacement to the MiG-27s and Jaguars, but to complement the MMRCA fleet that will hopefully be half-inducted by then.
In August 2008, right about the time the Indian Air Force had decided to officially kickstart procedures to get the Medium Combat Aircraft (MCA) off the realm of theory, then Chief of Air Staff Fali Major happened to bump into DRDO chief M Natarajan and then HAL chairman Ashok Baweja at an industry suppliers function in Bangalore. The Chief was mildly irritated that both Baweja and Natarajan had provided media sound-bytes and interviews suggesting that the MCA would have "fifth generation technologies". He impressed upon both gentlemen, over tea, that if the MCA went the LCA way, it would be not just unacceptable to the air force, but an act of criminal disregard for the country's security. "Give the air force a bloody first-rate fourth generation aeroplane. That is the job before you," he said.
Two months later, in October 2008, the name of the MCA programme was changed (on recommendation to the Secretary, Defence Production) to "Next Generation Fighter Aircraft", though MCA continues to be used alternatively without any particular distinction.
As per official documentation by the IAF, it wants the MCA to be a twin-pilot configured multirole stealth aircraft capable of "close air support, all weather interception, air defence suppression, long-range strike, electronic attack, limited command & control and reconnaisance" -- that's the profile from an official IAF wishlist to the ADA last year. That might roll right off the air force's tongue, like off a brochure, but they're deadly serious. Putting all speculation to rest when it officially began dialogue about the MCA in 2008, the IAF said it was not willing to look at a strike aircraft with other capabilities. It wants a fully multirole (preferably, swingrole) aircraft for the job.
As we speak, a joint committee of several bodies involved with the NGFA is finetuning the configuration of the final jet, before work begins on building a tech demonstrator, three prototype vehicles and two production series trial jets -- the wind tunnel model unveiled at Yelahanka in February 2009 is largely what the aircraft will look like, though there are three other variants that have not been displayed yet. A twin-engine delta planfrom version, which was a direct derivative from the LCA, has since been shelved -- low observable requirements demanded a fully new airframe approach, which finally ended in the design that people got to see at Aero India 2009. While the wind-tunnel model, fabricated by a Bangalore-based engineering firm, is the product of an ADA/HAL study, there will be dramatic changes yet to the aircraft's intakes (utterly radar friendly, according to the IAF), vertical stabilisers and dorsal section, say sources.
Air Chief Marshal PV Naik, in his first interaction with the ADA last year, seemed to nitpick on indigenous radar capability, more than anything else when it came to the topic of the MCA. Sources say he was deeply incensed when given a brief on the Multi-mode Radar (MMR), pioneered by the Electronics Research & Development Establishment (LRDE) for the LCA Tejas programme. In a chat with the director of the ADA, he said the next aircraft that the agency designed and built, needed to be centred around an Indian active array combat radar. In fact, the LRDE has already proposed a second radar (deriving from the MMR) for the MCA, with technological spin-offs currently being gleaned from its partnership with Israel's Elta. But Naik didn't buy that. He said it didn't matter what the DRDO was learning from who at this stage. When it came down to putting the nails in, he said he wanted a fully Indian radar on the MCA.
While configuration fructifies, the following work has begun on the MCA in full earnest: DARE, Bangalore has appointed a special team to begin identifying avionics and cockpit packages for the first prototype vehicle, and will supply this in published form to the ADA by July 2010. This will include cockpit electronics, cockpit configuration, man-machine interface, mission console systems and computers/software with a focus on data fusion and modular architecture. The LRDE will, in about the same time frame, provide a separate project proposal for an all new radar, to be re-designated for the MCA, as a derivative of the MMR currently being completed with technology from Israel's ELTA. LRDE will independently look in the market for a partner for active array technology, though it communicated to ADA in June 2009 that it had sufficient R&D available to build a reliable AESA prototype with assistance from Bharat Electronics Ltd and two private firms based in Hyderabad.
There is a collossal amount of work going on as far as materials is concerned for the MCA/NGFA. With the IAF unmoving in its demand for an aircraft that has stealth characteristics built into it from the drawing board forward, the DRDO has powered teams within its materials laboratories in Pune and Hyderabad to come up with new composities, low observable materials fabrication techniques, and of course, radar-absorbent control surface aggregates, airframe materials and paints.
The most crucial part of the programme is of course the engine. The Kaveri-Snecma turbofan is being counted upon vigorously to be ready to power prototypes of the MCA by the middle of this decade. There is no Plan-B just yet as far as engines go. However, technologies such as single crystal and nickel-based superalloys in turbofans are still some way off as far as Indian development is concerned -- the IAF wants the use of both to be a given in the engines that power the MCA.
According to the ADA, the government will look to purchase upto 250 MCAs when its done and ready -- not just as a replacement to the MiG-27s and Jaguars, but to complement the MMRCA fleet that will hopefully be half-inducted by then.
gogbot
BANNED
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2009
- Messages
- 2,201
- Reaction score
- 0
Dude that is very doubtful.
we might at best see Prototypes by that time, if we are lucky
Developing Countries Next Generation Fighter Aircraft
Recently when Requirements of MCA now re-named to NGFA (Next Generation Fighter Aircraft) by Indian Air force was made public in section of media , IAF clear dedicates what it wants for NGFA and seems to leave very little room for developers ADE and other DRDO labs . IAF seems will not compromise on the aircrafts capabilities from the start.
For years NGFA was rumored to be a strike aircraft with secondary role of Air defence capabilities. Now IAF wants a fully multirole Aircraft with almost all the technology which only a 5TH Generation Aircraft like Pak-Fa which India is partnered with Russia for its development will have ,Indias contribution to Pak-Fa is limited to sub-system of it avionics and its core software very similar work which was done with Sukhoi-Su30 MKI. Other then Avionics which can be further developed from Tejas MK-II platform they are tones of other things which NGFA will need to make it truly a 5TH Generation Aircraft .
IAF seems to be clear that it wants most of the Avionics and Engine for NGFA to be indigenous, Specially the AESA Radar; it seems IAF will not settle for AESA which has been developed by LRDE for Tejas Mk-II, it want to be more sophisticated then the Current AESA technology what LDRE is working on and better Avionics and Self-defence systems for the aircraft which will take lot of time unless similar Pak-Fa Avionics package is chosen.
The Kaveri-Snecma Engine based on core of M-88 has been seen has the possible engine which will power NGFA, Details of this engine is still not clear and what level of Technology French will bring is also crucial, GTRE failed to develop current Kaveri engine in time to power Tejas Combat aircraft .The new engine should be based on consultation with IAF to avoid future disappointments and should be ready in time to power NGFA which will have a tech demonstrator, three prototype vehicles and two production jets . No intermediate Engine has been sought, Kaveri-II have to be ready in time for NGFA to make its first flight.
Stealthy Airframe Requirements seems to have thrown out any DRDOs plans of having Aircraft with low Stealth characters, it wants Stealthy Airframe from the start and Current level of technology in India does not have such high end materials, composites and radar observing airframe materials and paints. Wind-tunnel model which was displayed at Aero India 2009 of MCA will need designs changes to meet IAFs demand of full Stealthy Airframe, while wind tunnel model seemed like Aircraft with Stealth features but not fully stealth aircraft.
Time frame set by ADA is again over ambitious. ADA plans to have the first test flight of the NGFA by 7-8 years, once go head is given which may come by end of 2010, this is simply not possible since most of the technology required for it is still not in pipeline, since various Labs will be working on it any delays by any Lab will effect the schedule flight plan and again it will look similar way which LCA was made to go.
Consultancy and joint development of various systems should be considered to meet the deadline for NGFAs first flight; Aircraft should be developed with possible export market in mind. To give air forces around the world a cheap and high technology 5TH Generation fighter which can compete with American and Chinese aircrafts in future.
Recently when Requirements of MCA now re-named to NGFA (Next Generation Fighter Aircraft) by Indian Air force was made public in section of media , IAF clear dedicates what it wants for NGFA and seems to leave very little room for developers ADE and other DRDO labs . IAF seems will not compromise on the aircrafts capabilities from the start.
For years NGFA was rumored to be a strike aircraft with secondary role of Air defence capabilities. Now IAF wants a fully multirole Aircraft with almost all the technology which only a 5TH Generation Aircraft like Pak-Fa which India is partnered with Russia for its development will have ,Indias contribution to Pak-Fa is limited to sub-system of it avionics and its core software very similar work which was done with Sukhoi-Su30 MKI. Other then Avionics which can be further developed from Tejas MK-II platform they are tones of other things which NGFA will need to make it truly a 5TH Generation Aircraft .
IAF seems to be clear that it wants most of the Avionics and Engine for NGFA to be indigenous, Specially the AESA Radar; it seems IAF will not settle for AESA which has been developed by LRDE for Tejas Mk-II, it want to be more sophisticated then the Current AESA technology what LDRE is working on and better Avionics and Self-defence systems for the aircraft which will take lot of time unless similar Pak-Fa Avionics package is chosen.
The Kaveri-Snecma Engine based on core of M-88 has been seen has the possible engine which will power NGFA, Details of this engine is still not clear and what level of Technology French will bring is also crucial, GTRE failed to develop current Kaveri engine in time to power Tejas Combat aircraft .The new engine should be based on consultation with IAF to avoid future disappointments and should be ready in time to power NGFA which will have a tech demonstrator, three prototype vehicles and two production jets . No intermediate Engine has been sought, Kaveri-II have to be ready in time for NGFA to make its first flight.
Stealthy Airframe Requirements seems to have thrown out any DRDOs plans of having Aircraft with low Stealth characters, it wants Stealthy Airframe from the start and Current level of technology in India does not have such high end materials, composites and radar observing airframe materials and paints. Wind-tunnel model which was displayed at Aero India 2009 of MCA will need designs changes to meet IAFs demand of full Stealthy Airframe, while wind tunnel model seemed like Aircraft with Stealth features but not fully stealth aircraft.
Time frame set by ADA is again over ambitious. ADA plans to have the first test flight of the NGFA by 7-8 years, once go head is given which may come by end of 2010, this is simply not possible since most of the technology required for it is still not in pipeline, since various Labs will be working on it any delays by any Lab will effect the schedule flight plan and again it will look similar way which LCA was made to go.
Consultancy and joint development of various systems should be considered to meet the deadline for NGFAs first flight; Aircraft should be developed with possible export market in mind. To give air forces around the world a cheap and high technology 5TH Generation fighter which can compete with American and Chinese aircrafts in future.
sancho
ELITE MEMBER
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2009
- Messages
- 13,011
- Reaction score
- 27
- Country
- Location
Same old problems that we see on LCA development!
Too high requirements of IAF, overestimating industrial capabilities at the moment, not realistic timeframes and wanting everything at once, altough no experiance with any of these high techs are available yet.
Why not go step by step? Make LCA ready in MK1 and 2 versions, make Kaveri engine and the first indigenous AESA radar ready, get more experience with latest and next gen techs through MMRCA and Pak Fa development and when all this is done, start something new and sophisticated like an indigenous next gen fighter development.
Mahakaya
BANNED
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2010
- Messages
- 325
- Reaction score
- 0
Why dont you try making only one of the "S" independently and feel free to try the other features u added and then we can talk!
Why high requirement? DRDO has been working on each requirement for ages. And it would get experience/knowledge by mrca/pakfa. Saying IAF has not left any space!!
Peace Sells no one buying
FULL MEMBER
New Recruit
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2010
- Messages
- 95
- Reaction score
- 0
The major concern that I have is that Indian planes are not at the level where their engines can handle their weight. The Short-Take off aspect of a 5th generation plane may be the most elusive. That said, any advances that India makes through the LCA (including failures) is experience than can be used towards the MCA.
You have to crawl before you can walk, and walk before you can run. If you look at the history of any nation's advanced programs, the 15 minutes of fame a success brings is the product of years of failure. You do not have to look any farther than the United States and the Mercury program -- and their attempts at manned spaceflight. The US is a space power now party because of all their early failures.
Success is cumulative, with enough experience.
You have to crawl before you can walk, and walk before you can run. If you look at the history of any nation's advanced programs, the 15 minutes of fame a success brings is the product of years of failure. You do not have to look any farther than the United States and the Mercury program -- and their attempts at manned spaceflight. The US is a space power now party because of all their early failures.
Success is cumulative, with enough experience.
gogbot
BANNED
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2009
- Messages
- 2,201
- Reaction score
- 0
Well MCA is more than a decade away so that's exactly the kind of stuff they will be working on.
Plus inputs from Our form with the PAk-FA will complement our capabilities greatly.
jha
ELITE MEMBER
- Joined
- Dec 19, 2009
- Messages
- 10,962
- Reaction score
- -8
- Country
- Location
since we are going to have FGFA, MRCA, SU-30 for air superiority and LCA, MIRAGE(upgraded), MIG-29 can be used very effectively as point defence...WHY NOT DEVELOP MCA AS KICK@$$ STRIKE PLATFORM as replacement of JAGUARs. give it all the stealth, best radars and design it as primarly ground striker...
share your views..sahibs...
share your views..sahibs...
Last edited:
freddiemaize
FULL MEMBER
New Recruit
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2010
- Messages
- 81
- Reaction score
- 0
KALPANA???
What is it please
What is it please
gogbot
BANNED
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2009
- Messages
- 2,201
- Reaction score
- 0
All Future Aircraft in the IAF will be fully Multi-role.
MKI, MIg-29 SMT, MRCA and FGFA are all multi-role aircraft, That happen to excel in Air superiority missions. They can still perform their strike role just as fine.
LCA, and Mirage, are not point defense aircraft, But Multi role platforms that are capable of performing missions of all spectrum's . From Air combat to Strike missions. the Tejas intact was originally designed to be a strike aircraft, but growing demands by the IAF have resulted in it being evolved into a true Multi-role aircraft capable of carrying the most advanced weapons in the Indian Arsenal. Allowing to now participate in air attack and defense missions
Mig-27 and Jaguar are the IAF primary Attack Bomber aircraft. Especially since they are the only platforms officially acknowledged to be used in Nuclear Strike Missions.
These are stated to be replaced by the Multi role NFGA(MCA).
Mig-21 is the only Aircraft in the IAF fleet, that is specifically used for the point defense role. Its bombing capabilities are limited in comparison to the remainder of the fleet. But since it is equipped with the latest weapons such as BVR missiles and Advanced radar. It can perform intercept missions. Making it a decent point defense fighter.
That can also be called upon to perform attack roles when necessary.
Similar threads
