MBT Modernization Program – A Step In The Right Direction

[HRK]

Notice the sides

AK1 turret

View attachment 626907



T-90S/A turret

The side armor in 90 is non-existent

below are some additional pics

First attached pic show the upper portion of side armour of Turret from another angle before welding just note the thickness of side armour plate

overall thickness of side armour of Turret

 

[Dazzler]

AK-1

Nice view of the frontal armor

Missing gunner sight?

 

[Goenitz]

The side armor in 90 is non-existent

I think the tank will not expose that side at all, unless our tank attack from sides.. or T90 is searching in other direction thus exposing the side. The diamond shape makes possible that even 30 degree turret turn is not fatal.. ( i mean projectile may skid on surface).. P.S my knowledge is limited to this game video

 

[Dazzler]

I think the tank will not expose that side at all, unless our tank attack from sides.. or T90 is searching in other direction thus exposing the side. The diamond shape makes possible that even 30 degree turret turn is not fatal.. ( i mean projectile may skid on surface).. P.S my knowledge is limited to this game video

Badly exposed to ATGM equipped ambush teams mate. Moving these at a high speed during a conflict would become a nightmare. BS will make a mince meat of t-90s

 

[truthfollower]

View attachment 622147

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why gun is fixed in a place instead of stabilized and aimed at a target? I have never seen a video of Pakistani tank with gun stabilized and fixed at target during movement.
Look at this video at 11:18 Leopard 2A6 wow such a beautiful tank.The gun is aimed at crowd. The way it moves, The speed and the engine sound so lovely

surely they know how to fan the flames in next generation with fun little rides in tanks

 

[Tipu7]

T-80UD maintenance, rebuild..

View attachment 626947

Wasn't the UD modernization project put on halt?

 

[Affanakad0t.]

Its better to upgrade tanks from Aselsan or any other renowned company having vast experience.

Moneyyy

 

[Dazzler]

Wasn't the UD modernization project put on halt?

Not in 2017, back then the project was inaugurated by the COAS.

What they have BMP 2s too. It provides great advantage. Except AK, I don't think our remaining tanks are better than T90s, T72Ms or Arjun

UD is better than 90S, way better than 72M1.

Arjun is a big question mark as the primary buyer lacks faith in it.

 

[PakFactor]

Notice the sides

AK1 turret

View attachment 626907



T-90S/A turret

The side armor in 90 is non-existent

This what I fear about the AKI and possibly even other thanks produced in the East -- the quality and protection is just not their.

Theirs pictures online of our Al-Zarrar tanks hit and hollow armor (just a single plate over the old turret); this doesn't strike confidence in the PA Armor Corps. To the point, I would say our Armor will not survive modern ATGM's, the Al-Zarrar is just useless garbage we have around better of giving it to FC to man the Iran/Afghan Border and the insurgency OPs.

Even the time it's taking AKII to come around it will be obsolete as well.

 

[Inception-06]

To put Dazzler post in perspective and make it more clear for others to understand who criticize the armour protection of AK unnecessarily, I am attaching pics of AK Turret and Hull

Further I would request to those members to bookmark Dazzler post .....


Front of AK Turret:
The hollow space is +650-670 mm and it is the place where special composite armour is inserted which offer better armour protection then RHA but lighter in weight
View attachment 626762

And below is the turret of AK from inside which shows the so called 'weakest spot' of AK Turret, plz observe the depth of opening for gun port of 7.62mm Machine Gun it is difficult to calculate the thickness but If observe carefully and compare it with the above attached pic then it appear that it is approximately 100-150mm less in thickness which mean its thickness at minimum is anywhere between 500-550 mm

View attachment 626769

below is the front of Turret after attachment of composite armour
View attachment 626766
Here kindly note these are the figures which are without any additional armour protection of ERA or slant space armour which add further protection to the tank turret ....



1- Back Armour Plate
2- Special Armour Cavity
3- Frontal Armour Plate
4- Driver Sitting Place

View attachment 626784

and If we go by the below attached pic then the value of front armour thickness of AK hull is almost +900mm without any additional armour or ERA
View attachment 626787

@Dazzler the depth of opening for gun port of 7.62mm Machine Gun is not really used, right?

 

[CrazyZ]

This what I fear about the AKI and possibly even other thanks produced in the East -- the quality and protection is just not their.

Theirs pictures online of our Al-Zarrar tanks hit and hollow armor (just a single plate over the old turret); this doesn't strike confidence in the PA Armor Corps. To the point, I would say our Armor will not survive modern ATGM's, the Al-Zarrar is just useless garbage we have around better of giving it to FC to man the Iran/Afghan Border and the insurgency OPs.

Even the time it's taking AKII to come around it will be obsolete as well.

Al Zarrar performed acceptably in COIN operations against TTP. Losses in this kind of warfare is inevitable....better to use upgraded older Tanks. In recent conflicts in the ME, even expensive western tanks were knocked out by ATGM's. In Syria, T-72's did not offer much real protection than T-55's when current ATGM's were used against them. Al Zarrar may have some use in defensive ops from fortified positions in the east but it can not really be used for offensive ops against modern tanks.

AKII will be a good tank but was delayed due to PA having to prioritize resources for COIN and internal security in the west.

 

[Dazzler]

@Dazzler the depth of opening for gun port of 7.62mm Machine Gun is not really used, right?

Opened when needed, otherwise it remains covered. Every tank has a coaxial machine gun housing.

This what I fear about the AKI and possibly even other thanks produced in the East -- the quality and protection is just not their.

Theirs pictures online of our Al-Zarrar tanks hit and hollow armor (just a single plate over the old turret); this doesn't strike confidence in the PA Armor Corps. To the point, I would say our Armor will not survive modern ATGM's, the Al-Zarrar is just useless garbage we have around better of giving it to FC to man the Iran/Afghan Border and the insurgency OPs.

Even the time it's taking AKII to come around it will be obsolete as well.

A tank without support and proper tactics is next to useless in the battlefield. Even the best mbt in the world is vulnerable to ambushes. Remember the FATE of M1A1s and Leo-2s in the Middle East.

 

[PakFactor]

Opened when needed, otherwise it remains covered. Every tank has a coaxial machine gun housing.



A tank without support and proper tactics is next to useless in the battlefield. Even the best mbt in the world is vulnerable to ambushes. Remember the FATE of M1A1s and Leo-2s in the Middle East.

That is true, but, even without some of the support you mentioned those tanks have been able to divide direct hits and what not — can we say the same for ours?

 

[Mrc]

That is true, but, even without some of the support you mentioned those tanks have been able to divide direct hits and what not — can we say the same for ours?

Syria lost 2000 tanks in 8 years. Pak lost 2 in 19. Is that enough or more proofs required?

Both of these AK 1 and AZ are reasonable tanks. AZ is very useful in western theater as well.

With 100s of nukes in play there is absolutely no need to spend billions on a state of art western system that will never b used

Current strategies of upgrading old tanks and domestic development of new ones is more than enough.

Having said that M1A2 Abraham's performed exceptionally poor in syria and Iraq and Iraqis have even discarded them and bought t 90ms

T90 also performed alot better in syria

There are pics of leopard mk2 destroyed easily available on net but wont find a pic of knocked out t 90

T90 is same weight class as alkhalid

 

[truthfollower]

This what I fear about the AKI and possibly even other thanks produced in the East -- the quality and protection is just not their.

Theirs pictures online of our Al-Zarrar tanks hit and hollow armor (just a single plate over the old turret); this doesn't strike confidence in the PA Armor Corps. To the point, I would say our Armor will not survive modern ATGM's, the Al-Zarrar is just useless garbage we have around better of giving it to FC to man the Iran/Afghan Border and the insurgency OPs.

Even the time it's taking AKII to come around it will be obsolete as well.

no money for better upgrades as some senior member said on this forum most of the budget goes for salary and pension payments so nothing left for hardware upgrades