Massive Foreign Aid to India Continues

[Goodperson]

We are aware of the amount of Foreign aid Pakistan receives, indeed Indians never tire of reminding us of it, but this thread is not about Pakistan's foreign aid is it?

We are all aware of me too wrt we all know but do we see the sift towards you too now by quoting ones own blog ?

 

[ramu]

Foreign Aid Pouring in Resurgent India

In spite of all of the recent news about aid to Pakistan dominating the media, the fact remains that resurgent India has received more foreign aid than any other developing nation since the end of World War II--estimated at almost $100 billion since the beginning of its First Five-Year Plan in 1951. And it continues to receive more foreign aid in spite of impressive economic growth for almost a decade. At the recent G20 meeting, India has asked the World Bank to raise the amount of money India can borrow from the bank for its infrastructure projects, according to Times of India. At present, India can borrow up to $15.5 billion as per the SBL (single borrower limit)in soft loans fixed by the Bank.

After the increase of British aid to $500 million (300 million pounds) a year, India will still remain the biggest recipient of Japan's official development assistance (ODA) in the near future. Since Japan's first ODA to India in 1958, the country has received monetary aid worth Rs 89,500 crore (Rs 895 billion) so far, according to Noro Motoyoshi, Japanese consul general in Kolkata. In 2008, Japan's ODA to India was up by more than 18% compared to 2007 at Rs 6916 crore (Rs 69.16 billion).

Now, there is a BBC report about how India is using some of the British aid amounting to $500 million. It says "Last year Britain gave almost £300m (US$500m) to India in development aid. But India plans to spend more than US$1bn on its space programme next year". Here's the report:

International development aid is one part of the UK budget unlikely to be cut in a squeeze on public finances. But questions are being asked about how aid is used, and which countries need it. India last year got almost £300m from the UK, some of it spent on toilets in the country's financial capital, Mumbai.

The stench from the stagnant, fetid stream of the Queresh Nagar slum in Mumbai hits you as soon as you get out of the car.

The slum itself is bustling and vibrant. There is a line of shops with living quarters above. The stream is behind, the water a murky grey with insects buzzing on top. Some residents have rigged up ****** plastic covers at the back of their homes for privacy. But the children scamper around using the stream, or whatever ground they can find on the disused rail track behind, for a toilet.

"We have to live in these conditions," says La La Nawab Ali, who is showing me around.

"What can we do? You can see the state of it. This is Mumbai."

In another slum at Munjul Nagar, residents show letters, many signed with thumb prints, asking the authorities to finish building a toilet block that has been left half-finished. A similar stench pervades the air.

"It's an extremely difficult and helpless situation," explains Prasad Shetty, an urban planning consultant. "It's an extremely embarrassing undignified demeaning kind of experience for them."

Most of the funding for the sanitation project initially came from the World Bank and was then was taken over by the Mumbai government.

A small amount of British aid goes from the UK Department of International Development (DFID) through charities in England and India, mainly to train people to maintain their community toilet blocks. But many in the slums say they know little or nothing about it.

"You foreign people from over there, you keep on sending so much money," says one angry slum resident. "But the poor person sees nothing."

No water

Central to the scheme is building blocks of public toilets that can be used by the millions of people presently living with no sanitation.

Most of the blocks built so far work, but evaluators say there have been problems with about a third of them. Some have been built with no water supply. Some are not being maintained. One in the Queresh Nagar slum had to be pulled down because it was unsafe. The one in the Munjul Nagar slum has been left half-built because of objections from a developer.

"And somebody even sells the toilets," explained Jockin Arputham, founder of the National Federation of Slum Dwellers. "Sometimes they might have been sold to somebody for a premium."



BBC News - Should the UK fund toilets in Mumbai slums?

Haq's Musings: Foreign Aid Continues to Pour in Resurgent India

Let us define Aid:
Aid is a voluntary transfer of resources from one country to another, given at least partly with the objective of benefiting the recipient country. It may have other functions as well: it may be given as a signal of diplomatic approval, or to strengthen a military ally, to reward a government for behaviour desired by the donor, to extend the donor's cultural influence, to provide infrastructure needed by the donor for resource extraction from the recipient country, or to gain other kinds of commercial access.

Let us now define Loan
A loan is a type of debt. Like all debt instruments, a loan entails the redistribution of financial assets over time, between the lender and the borrower.
In a loan, the borrower initially receives or borrows an amount of money, called the principal, from the lender, and is obligated to pay back or repay an equal amount of money to the lender at a later time. Typically, the money is paid back in regular installments, or partial repayments; in an annuity, each installment is the same amount. The loan is generally provided at a cost, referred to as interest on the debt, which provides an incentive for the lender to engage in the loan. In a legal loan, each of these obligations and restrictions is enforced by contract, which can also place the borrower under additional restrictions known as loan covenants. Although this article focuses on monetary loans, in practice any material object might be lent.

And not to forget the word borrow:

Borrow or borrowing can mean: to receive (something) from somebody temporarily, expecting to return it.

 

[karan.1970]

Man... If i could bill for the hours I have spent replying to Haq, I would have been able to buy the Merc I have been wanting to...

Jokes aside, replying to Haq has made me learn more about Indian economics than what my MBA taught me..

As they say, you can find good in almost anything.. I know in this case, its a touch and go.. but still ....

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

It's about foreign aid and the intent of the thread is fairly clear.. Isn't it??

The intent is to talk about foreign aid received by India and issues related to it.

"In spite of all of the recent news about aid to Pakistan dominating the media, the fact remains that resurgent India has received more foreign aid than any other developing nation since the end of World War II"

so the thread starter got Pakistan in and stated that India receives more aid than any other nation. Just putting the aid in question in perspective.

As they say, Riaz left the door open by drawing the comparison in the 1st post itself.. I am just walking in thru that door..

Indian's have been walking through the 'Pakistan receives aid' door long before Haq started posting, there really has been no shortage of it so I would appreciate if people focused on India in this thread.

The problem arise from the fact that so many Indians have denigrated Pakistan over foreign aid that most Indians don't like admitting that India is a recipient and has been a major recipient in the past.

The same case with poverty and other social issues - too many Indians have been brought up to believe Pakistan is Somalia and so far down the ladder from India, that there is no way Pakistan could compare favorably (or equally) on various socio-economic indicators.

Hence the knee jerk reactions against such posts.

On some threads I have noticed a positive trend, posters have accepted India's failings and talked about potential changes and improvements, and clarification of the stats posted by Haq.

That really should be all that needs to be done on the part of Indians to put their view across.

Of course there should be no need for multiple threads on the same issue. One thread to discuss poverty, another to discuss aid, power, etc. should be enough, and I think we should be mature enough to accept failings and discuss things rationally.

 

[riju78]

karan bhai is this a new thread..i dont have the patience to go through all this again!!!!

i can see this going to 35 pages in 24hrs!!!!!!!!

 

[ramu]

The intent is to talk about foreign aid received by India and issues related to it.

You are a senior member and I am sure you know the difference between Aid and Loan but are we not turning a blind eye to this open reckless writing that makes apples of oranges.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

You are a senior member and I am sure you know the difference between Aid and Loan but are we not turning a blind eye to this open reckless writing that makes apples of oranges.

Quite frankly I have not read the majority of the thread at all.

But I am sure these clarifications/arguments have been made in this thread by Indians have they not? And Indians have not been stopped from doing so?

 

[ramu]

Man... If i could bill for the hours I have spent replying to Haq, I would have been able to buy the Merc I have been wanting to...

Jokes aside, replying to Haq has made me learn more about Indian economics than what my MBA taught me..

As they say, you can find good in almost anything.. I know in this case, its a touch and go.. but still ....

Oh that is great ... I learnt a lot about economics because I am a addicted investor in the secondary market. I dont like loosing money and that made me learn and the internet is my teacher.

 

[Skeptic]

Quite frankly I have not read the majority of the thread at all.

But I am sure these clarifications/arguments have been made in this thread by Indians have they not? And Indians have not been stopped from doing so?

AM what Indians are stopped from doing is - Taking content from a blog which cherry picks (rather garbage picks) statistics, twists definition of financial terms and show Pakistan in an unreasonable poor light. I think it is unfair and rules should be equal for all. If any Indian starts doing that, we'll be banned with posts deleted - why spare the one with different flag. Forum claims to be nationality blind.

Anyways, end of the day - its your forum. Your Rules - You can choose to bend them for chosen few.

 

[karan.1970]

The intent is to talk about foreign aid received by India and issues related to it.

Indian's have been walking through the 'Pakistan receives aid' door long before Haq started posting, there really has been no shortage of it so I would appreciate if people focused on India in this thread.

But that would mean finding / opening a second thread to talk about aid to Pakistan. How will that help? We are all grownups here and know the intents of such threads.. Irrespective of who starts them (indians of pakistanis). Might as well accept it and discuss both sides of the coin.. Just my 2 cents ..

The problem arise from the fact that so many Indians have denigrated Pakistan over foreign aid that most Indians don't like admitting that India is a recipient and has been a major recipient in the past.

I dont think there should be an issue in accepting that India has received and continues to receive aid/soft loans etc. Its the intent and tone of the thread that brings the defences up...

The same case with poverty and other social issues - too many Indians have been brought up to believe Pakistan is Somalia and so far down the ladder from India, that there is no way Pakistan could compare favorably (or equally) on various socio-economic indicators.

Actually no. Pakistan till 1990's was significantly more prosperous than India and it was well known in India..

Hence the knee jerk reactions against such posts.

On some threads I have noticed a positive trend, posters have accepted India's failings and talked about potential changes and improvements, and clarification of the stats posted by Haq.

That really should be all that needs to be done on the part of Indians to put their view across.

As I said earlier Agno.. Its all about the way discussion is started. Whether it is to discuss or for putting some one down..Really, do you think there is shortage on Socio economic issues in Pakistan. I however dont see these many threads around poverty in Pakistan, or aid to pakistan or toilets in pakistan etc etc coming up..

Of course there should be no need for multiple threads on the same issue. One thread to discuss poverty, another to discuss aid, power, etc. should be enough, and I think we should be mature enough to accept failings and discuss things rationally.

Absolutely.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

AM what Indians are stopped from doing is - Taking content from a blog which cherry picks (rather garbage picks) statistics, twists definition of financial terms and show Pakistan in an unreasonable poor light.

Unfortunately I can't really comment on that unless I read through the thread, and I don't have time for that right now (the subject is not really one I am interested in).

Perhaps in a few weeks when i am done with the semester I'll pop in and see what you mean.

But I do know that while you may disagree with RH, you have to accept that his posts are civil, beyond that just provide your refutation and your sources.

 

[ramu]

Quite frankly I have not read the majority of the thread at all.

But I am sure these clarifications/arguments have been made in this thread by Indians have they not? And Indians have not been stopped from doing so?

We have pointed this out in every thread but Riaz does not get the point. The reference to borrowing clearly mentions soft loans and still if a person is desperate to misinterpret and ill represent facts, then people in this forum will loose interest in making the same points over and over again.



The evasive approach used by Riaz is known to many members here. When he does not have an answer like the question I posed in a thread that was recently closed : KSE Vs BSE/NSE.

> I presented the market cap of top scrips in KSE , BSE.
> He said BSE is hyped and over valued.
> I asked him to forget about market value and consider book value
> this was to couter his hype, BS
> I was asked why I quoted market value in the first place
> No answer for the comparison of Book value was presented.

The above pattern is common and unless that changes this thread will remain a ranting ground for self proclaimed psuedo intellectuals.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

now a days i hear evrytime in news that pak is running from pole to pole ,from u.s to china for aid's(i mean aids-which they dont have to return)

they ask anything ranging from energy,weapons to money

i think they r so disgraced now that they start to mistook even soft loans as aid

my pak friends if aid and soft loan r same for u why dont u ask for soft loans everytime u ask for only aid's

last but not least,it was not our pm who was at the door step of imf asking for bail out

Thanks for stepping in to make my point.

Now stick to the topic please.

 

[karan.1970]

karan bhai is this a new thread..i dont have the patience to go through all this again!!!!

If Riaz was a girl,

we could have sung.. tera picha na..na chaddan ga soniye....

but here even that's not possible...

Jokes apart.. the topic is different.. so plough on...


Mods: Trying to keep it light.. a little off topic.. Will appreciate if you indulge the deviation..

 

[Skeptic]

Unfortunately I can't really comment on that unless I read through the thread, and I don't have time for that right now (the subject is not really one I am interested in).

Perhaps in a few weeks when i am done with the semester I'll pop in and see what you mean.

But I do know that while you may disagree with RH, you have to accept that his posts are civil, beyond that just provide your refutation and your sources.

Fair enough since you have not read them. I am sure by then, we can compile a PM for you - indicating that even after being refuted, exposed of quoting out of context and quoting only a part of interviews he has repeatedly opened new threads (even copying material from earlier posts of his own) and tried to sway away from topic rather than acknowledge.

If it was for acknowledging shortcomings of India, I would be the first one to do so, but this is downright lying.

Best wishes for your studies. I am sure you will do well.