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MARCH 15, 1971: Yahya arrives in Dhaka for 'negotiation'

It's haram in Islam so a Muslim country must not allow this in order to avoid fitna.
A country cannot be religious. People prays not countries. Besides how will it create fitna?There are plenty practicing Muslims in Europe where alcohol is sold openly. You can follow your religion if your heart is into it. If not, then no one can force you.
It is fitna.. They can even do orgy sex I have no problem. But no public nudity . It will spread fitna. And
We don't believe any salvation by grace theory like Christianity, Islam has its own law. So religion Islam and state can't be totally separated.
However this types of act will spread fitna in Muslims, so it's not allowed.
Europe and America showing respect to muslims and covering food shops during Ramadan, and you guys are advocating for fitnabaazi.
This the real problem of secularism.
Same logic applies as above. No one is forcing you to kiss someone in public. But be tolerant if someone else is doing it. Live and let live.
Does that matter?
If you haven't met any, then how can you say you know how they(The Turks that consider themselves as Muslims) feel?
Well lots of Turkish is still the supporter of kemal I never denied that. They are not Muslim, they are munafiq.
Who are you to decide?
 
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A country cannot be religious. People prays not countries. Besides how will it create fitna?There are plenty practicing Muslims in Europe where alcohol is sold openly. You can follow your religion if your heart is into it. If not, then no one can force you.
It's traditional. In muslim majority countries we will not let this happen. This is called western democracy. Majority opinion.
Christian Peoples can eat pork in Bangladesh, but pork isn't available in market. They may raise hog and eat it in their own area. not openly if pork will be available in market many dishonest business men will mix pork with beef. Same goes for wine. Anyone can drink it from few places, not everywhere.
Same goes for brothels , anyone can go but its not legal.
It's not west you have to understand it. Things are not o easy as you say, all are dependent of public sentiment.
Same logic applies as above. No one is forcing you to kiss someone in public. But be tolerant if someone else is doing it. Live and let live.
Answered already, it's not Europe and, Europe became like this because it is pre dominantly Christian and Christianity has no law it's salvation by grace unlike Judaism , Islam does have its own law like Judaism.
If you haven't met any, then how can you say you know how they(The Turks that consider themselves as Muslims) feel?

It's logical fallacy. Most peoples don't meet other countries folks directly. still they can learn about their culture by reading books, articles from various journals, and there are lots other ways. And nowadays for Internet world become a global village so it's very easy to talk to them.
So such questions are unwise.
I hope you didn't forget how peoples came to hit military rebels when erdogan ordered them.
Who are you to decide?
It's allah and prophet ( pbuh) decided , not me. If someone.
As a direct example, ahmadiyas are kafir, because it's the strict belief of Islam that Muhammad (pbub ) is the final prophet of Allah. He who reject that and believe that there are more prophets can come after Muhammad (pbuh) then surely he/She became kafir instantly. So ahmadiyas are not Muslim but kafir.
And who will believe that ahmadiyas Still can remain Muslim by denying Muhammad (pbuh) as final messenger, then s/he is munafiq.
Don't start on it please, it's just example for your better.understanding.
@Mage
 
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Answered already, it's not Europe and, Europe became like this because it is pre dominantly Christian and Christianity has no law it's salvation by grace unlike Judaism , Islam does have its own law like Judaism.

Europe is doing way better than islamic world. You are after all typing right here in a European language, not arabic.

Sour grapes are funny.
 
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Europe is doing way better than islamic world. You are after all typing right here in a European language, not arabic.

Sour grapes are funny.
Did I say that Europe is doing bad ? Or did I say that Islam is better because it has law ? Is it necessary trolling Everytime ?
Grapes are sweet always and I was just talking about the main difference between this two religion .
Islam has law and christianity doesn't have .

Christanity is salvation by grace , and islam is salvation by law .
This is just the dogma of those two religions .It's not hard to understand.

If you ask any Christian priest ,he will inform you .

It was not religious debate that what is better or worse .
It was simple information thats all .
 
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Did I say that Europe is doing bad ? Or did I say that Islam is better because it has law ? Is it necessary trolling Everytime ?
Sour is sweet always and I was just talking about the main difference between this two religion .
Islam has law and christianity doesn't have .
This is salvation by law grace , and islam is salvation by law .
This is just the doctrine of those two religion .It's not hard to understand.

If you ask any Christian priest ,he will inform you .

It was not religious debate that what is better or worse .
It was simple information thats all .

You implying a lot between the lines with "europe became like this".....please explain like what then. I'm all ears.
 
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You implying a lot between the lines with "europe became like this".....please explain like what then. I'm all ears.
I mean Europe became totally secular/ non religious, nothing more than that .
 
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@Centaur, would you mind if I request you not to continue writing on religion. This thread is all about the role of Yahya Khan in 1971. But, you have taken it to another level. So, please stop it.
I was not talking about religion. Just someone ( mage and later nilgiri) asked and I answered with some explanation!
Ok I accept your offer.
No more topic related to religious culture. Thanks.
@bluesky
 
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OH Gaaaawd we are so so much oppressed we need freedom and democracy like the one you gave to iraqis and libyans I would prefer abu gharib style freedom please liberate us but there is a problem we dont have oil but we do have hundreds nukes will you still liberate us?
80% of iraqis are quite happy
 
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Who cares about the Ottoman khilafat? .
El-jevap: [Only for the Ehl-I Iman (others, please don't bother to read)]
The folks in the Muslim heartlands dying by millions in all possible ways, millions being raped, millions losing all their property, millions uprooted to be refugees, Palestinians etc.!!! On top of it all the proxy dynasties, dictators etc. created by the Western Intelligence services and Zionists, who didn't forget to create pseudo-religious extremist ideologies so that they can run with the rabbit and hunt with the hound!!!! In short, after the collapse of the Ottoman Empire, the Muslim heartland haven't seen a single day of peace or security of their lives, property and honor. One-third of the Ottoman male folks embraced Shehadet for the freedom of the Haremain and Kudus and to stop the creation of Zionist Israil!!! Elhamdulillah!!!!

*The story doesn't end here. The ZAT, WHO took it away at the first lace, can very much give it back for HE is the All-Powerful, the All-mighty, not the USA, Israil etc.
 
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El-jevap: [Only for the Ehl-I Iman (others, please don't bother to read)]
The folks in the Muslim heartlands dying by millions in all possible ways, millions being raped, millions losing all their property, millions uprooted to be refugees, Palestinians etc.!!! On top of it all the proxy dynasties, dictators etc. created by the Western Intelligence services and Zionists, who didn't forget to create pseudo-religious extremist ideologies so that they can run with the rabbit and hunt with the hound!!!! In short, after the collapse of the Ottoman Empire, the Muslim heartland haven't seen a single day of peace or security of their lives, property and honor. One-third of the Ottoman male folks embraced Shehadet for the freedom of the Haremain and Kudus and to stop the creation of Zionist Israil!!! Elhamdulillah!!!!

*The story doesn't end here. The ZAT, WHO took it away at the first lace, can very much give it back for HE is the All-Powerful, the All-mighty, not the USA, Israil etc.
Ok, maybe last comment was a bit harsh with that comment. I understand the passion about it, however all good things must come to an end. And all empires decline and fall.The final years of the Ottoman Empire were certainly tragic to see. But, you should agree that the rise of the Turkish republic over an empire is necessary.
 
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It's traditional. In muslim majority countries we will not let this happen. This is called western democracy. Majority opinion.
Tradition? Your tradition, you follow, no one else needs to. It was normal for women to not be allowed to vote. It was ''tradition'' to keep women in the house. It was normal to own slaves. "Tradition" doesn't get to dictate laws on what people are or aren't allowed to do or have. Your private life, follow your tradition as long your tradition does not infringe upon others rights.

Christian Peoples can eat pork in Bangladesh, but pork isn't available in market. They may raise hog and eat it in their own area. not openly if pork will be available in market many dishonest business men will mix pork with beef.
Same goes for wine. Anyone can drink it from few places, not everywhere.
That's not an argument. It would be illegal to do so and they will go to jail for that. You don't ban cars just because kids that can pass for an adult might drive it. How do you know dogs or other animals aren't being served despite being illegal? Making pork illegal only hurts people who are not muslim. Not the ''business man'' that might serve it to muslims. That would still be illegal. Come to Malaysia and see how things like alcohol and non halal food serving works.

It's not west you have to understand it. Things are not o easy as you say, all are dependent of public sentiment.
Public sentiment in Myanmar also dictates rohingyas must be driven out. Public sentiment in many parts of India dictates beef eaters should be punished. If the public sentiment puts down other peoples' right, then you don't agree with the public and instead educate them or try to make them see it from others perspective.

Answered already, it's not Europe and, Europe became like this because it is pre dominantly Christian and Christianity has no law it's salvation by grace unlike Judaism , Islam does have its own law like Judaism.
Here's something you should get into your head, and I mean this very seriously. It's your (muslims) obligation to follow Islamic laws. It's not non-muslims obligation to do so. You are free to oblige to your religion and literally no one here is arguing otherwise. However, you can't force others to oblige to your religious laws.


There is a saying in Turkey, 'Turkish nation should thank God for Ataturk and thank Ataturk for everything else.'
I don't get the fawning admiration over Ataturk. He had secular ideas that I like but also did things like banning headscarf from public administrations like schools, courts and everything, which goes against the secular principle. The dumbest thing however, is that he set up his country where it was easy for the country to get unstable at any period of time. Giving army the power to stage coups to remove anyone who leans religious from power, is a recipe for disaster.

I don't know, but the single most thing I value or want in my country is for it to remain stable. Absolute secularism to me is secondary, after my people have the economic freedom to eat, get education and live a decent life. To trade all that just to preserve secularism by any means necessary and make all my countrymen suffer from the instability, isn't something I would ever want.

I have seen one thing, that is, when countries get richer, they get more educated and then they naturally lean towards secularism. Give people their economic freedom, a decent life, good education and they will choose people in power that represents secularism. It's backwards way to get secularism, to stage coups every time the leader elected by the people of the country. Look at Bangladesh's last generation and this generation. There's a gigantic difference in views and religious to secular ideas, in this gen than the last one who lived through a bad economy and living condition compared to this one.
 
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Tradition? Your tradition, you follow, no one else needs to. It was normal for women to not be allowed to vote. It was ''tradition'' to keep women in the house. It was normal to own slaves. "Tradition" doesn't get to dictate laws on what people are or aren't allowed to do or have. Your private life, follow your tradition as long your tradition does not infringe upon others rights.

@Ashik Mahmud,
If you study with liberal mind, you will know that women used to do business in market in the age of prophet (pbuh) , women used to fight in battle alongside men in those golden age.
If you read Arabian Knights that is actually erotic literature , that was written in Abbasid era.
So don't mix some extremist or mullah ( fake Islamic who used to issue fatwa against job for women) with the real Islamic teaching . Those mullahs are British bastardized by product.
However Islam is reviving again. Even those niqab is not necessarily Islamic, Islam require head scarf only, still no one is bound to obey it.
Read this article I am posting the 3rd part, you can find it from part one, from here too.
Author munim siddique

নিকাব কি ইসলামের বাধ্যতামূলক বিধান?
পর্ব-১,
পর্ব-২,
পর্ব-৩
You can read those 3 article. He took information from the writings of Yusuf al-Qaradawi. You can read his writings too.
And also many writers are writting against the works of British paid mullahs from British era that was never ever Islamic tradition, but that was only to give Islam bad name.

No more argument about this as
@bluesky will mind, and I don't want to derail his thread .
If you want such argument, open a new thread and tag me there, I will answer your every single questions/challenges what ever you call it.
@Mage , I understood his point, my post was just comparative, buts it's long long history, you have to study long times from various writers.
you can also post a new thread, if you guys want to discuss, I will try to answer both of you, but But not here.
PS :
But your comparison public kissing and selling wine with driving rohingyas are not only hilarious but also childish . I just have read this lol. Make no sense , how it even can be comparable? We are not driving Buddhists out .It's Bengal secular brain .
End of this off topic discussion here .
Thank you .

@Ashik Mahmud
 
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Tradition? Your tradition, you follow, no one else needs to. It was normal for women to not be allowed to vote. It was ''tradition'' to keep women in the house. It was normal to own slaves. "Tradition" doesn't get to dictate laws on what people are or aren't allowed to do or have. Your private life, follow your tradition as long your tradition does not infringe upon others rights.


That's not an argument. It would be illegal to do so and they will go to jail for that. You don't ban cars just because kids that can pass for an adult might drive it. How do you know dogs or other animals aren't being served despite being illegal? Making pork illegal only hurts people who are not muslim. Not the ''business man'' that might serve it to muslims. That would still be illegal. Come to Malaysia and see how things like alcohol and non halal food serving works.


Public sentiment in Myanmar also dictates rohingyas must be driven out. Public sentiment in many parts of India dictates beef eaters should be punished. If the public sentiment puts down other peoples' right, then you don't agree with the public and instead educate them or try to make them see it from others perspective.


Here's something you should get into your head, and I mean this very seriously. It's your (muslims) obligation to follow Islamic laws. It's not non-muslims obligation to do so. You are free to oblige to your religion and literally no one here is arguing otherwise. However, you can't force others to oblige to your religious laws.



I don't get the fawning admiration over Ataturk. He had secular ideas that I like but also did things like banning headscarf from public administrations like schools, courts and everything, which goes against the secular principle. The dumbest thing however, is that he set up his country where it was easy for the country to get unstable at any period of time. Giving army the power to stage coups to remove anyone who leans religious from power, is a recipe for disaster.

I don't know, but the single most thing I value or want in my country is for it to remain stable. Absolute secularism to me is secondary, after my people have the economic freedom to eat, get education and live a decent life. To trade all that just to preserve secularism by any means necessary and make all my countrymen suffer from the instability, isn't something I would ever want.

I have seen one thing, that is, when countries get richer, they get more educated and then they naturally lean towards secularism. Give people their economic freedom, a decent life, good education and they will choose people in power that represents secularism. It's backwards way to get secularism, to stage coups every time the leader elected by the people of the country. Look at Bangladesh's last generation and this generation. There's a gigantic difference in views and religious to secular ideas, in this gen than the last one who lived through a bad economy and living condition compared to this one.
Probably the most well written reply in this topic I have seen in pdf.

My apologies @bluesky, but I have no other option but to reply him for the last time .

@Ashik Mahmud,
If you study with liberal mind, you will know that women used to do business in market in the age of prophet (pbuh) , women used to fight in battle alongside men in those golden age.
If you read Arabian Knights that is actually erotic literature , that was written in Abbasid era.
So don't mix some extremist or mullah ( fake Islamic who used to issue fatwa against job for women) with the real Islamic teaching . Those mullahs are British bastardized by product.
However Islam is reviving again. Even those niqab is not necessarily Islamic, Islam require head scarf only, still no one is bound to obey it.
Read this article I am posting the 3rd part, you can find it from part one, from here too.
Author munim siddique

নিকাব কি ইসলামের বাধ্যতামূলক বিধান?
পর্ব-১,
পর্ব-২,
পর্ব-৩
You can read those 3 article. He took information from the writings of Yusuf al-Qaradawi. You can read his writings too.
And also many writers are writting against the works of British paid mullahs from British era that was never ever Islamic tradition, but that was only to give Islam bad name.

No more argument about this as
@bluesky will mind, and I don't want to derail his thread .
If you want such argument, open a new thread and tag me there, I will try answer your every questions/challenges what ever you call it.

Thanks .
@Ashik Mahmud
I think you missed his point. It is not about how things was. Talking about Islamic Golden age is pointless. What worked a Millennium ago probably won't work today. It is about how things should be. Religion is a private matter of people. So don't make a particular religion a national thing. Just like Islam is sacred for you, there are people for whom Hinduism or Christianity is sacred. So do not enforce religious values of one religion on the entire nation. If people have the right to practise religion, then they also have the right not to practise as well. You do your halal. Let others do some haram as long as it doesn't harm anyone. And people kissing in public or selling pork or alcohol don't harm you.
 
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