#MarasiMedia undermines DGISPR: A Threat to Pak State

[Khafee]

maybe the state is weak @Mangus Ortus Novem

@The Eagle @Dubious @waz @WAJsal Can you guys put a thread ban on this false flag indian?

 

[GumNaam]

maybe the state is weak @Mangus Ortus Novem

the state speaks softly, walks quietly, but carries a big stick that it does not show off until it has to.

 

[Mangus Ortus Novem]

@The Eagle @Dubious @waz @WAJsal Can you guys put a thread ban on this false flag indiot?

Khafee,

We need these Andian marasiz... life will be boring without these wannabe whites!

You are too generous, my brother.. a very big heart you have!

You know what I mean....

Mangus

 

[salarsikander]

Some of them do, very likely. Others, not so much.

Is there a statistical to back up such claim ?

 

[VCheng]

Is there a statistical to back up such claim ?

A lot of numbers were presented to the Supreme Court as part of the Missing Persons Case.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Well, the Missing Persons Case before the Supreme Court has many details about what happens in many, if not most, of these cases. There is ample material there that movements like PTM can derive their inspiration from, to be honest.

But, as you often say, there is no proof of any wrongdoing whatsoever by the agencies. None whatsoever.

Wars are fought with the tools we have, not what we wish we had. The military isn't a police force - it's methods were always going to be 'brutal' though the dramatic decline in terrorism in Pakistan has shown that they were also very effective.

With respect to the 'proof' aspect, yes, evidence remains critical. Just because someone goes 'missing' isn't in itself 'evidence' that the military or ISI was involved, or for that matter whether local police was involved. There are tribal feuds, local enmities, kidnapping gangs, TTP extremists either recruiting or neutralizing those who they see as threats. Yes, people were also likely picked up by LEA's & military/intel agencies because of intelligence obtained on their activities, but I see very little 'proof' that can credibly establish what is what.

 

[VCheng]

Wars are fought with the tools we have, not what we wish we had. The military isn't a police force - it's methods were always going to be 'brutal' though the dramatic decline in terrorism in Pakistan has shown that they were also very effective.

With respect to the 'proof' aspect, yes, evidence remains critical. Just because someone goes 'missing' isn't in itself 'evidence' that the military or ISI was involved, or for that matter whether local police was involved. There are tribal feuds, local enmities, kidnapping gangs, TTP extremists either recruiting or neutralizing those who they see as threats. Yes, people were also likely picked up by LEA's & military/intel agencies because of intelligence obtained on their activities, but I see very little 'proof' that can differentiate between what is what.

I already accepted your justifications, since there is no point in arguing whether such justifications matter much in the overall scheme of things. Effective as those tactics may seem to be in the short term, the record clearly shows things deteriorating steadily on many other fronts.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

A lot of numbers were presented to the Supreme Court as part of the Missing Persons Case.

Numbers that also represent those that joined the TTP, moved to Afghanistan, went underground as part of their terrorism supporting activities, were kidnapped and/or killed by extremists or other criminals. Numbers alone don't mean anything.

 

[VCheng]

Numbers that also represent those that joined the TTP, moved to Afghanistan, went underground as part of their terrorism supporting activities, were kidnapped and/or killed by extremists or other criminals. Numbers alone don't mean anything.

Of course. Those numbers do not mean anything at all, I am convinced.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

I already accepted your justifications, since there is no point in arguing whether such justifications matter much in the overall scheme of things. Effective as those tactics may seem to be in the short term, the record clearly shows things deteriorating steadily on many other fronts.

And many of us (including the military) have pointed out over the last several years that the military COIN tactics are not a long term solution, that the elected governments have to reform law enforcement and the judiciary and civilian institutions have to take over from the military.

Of course. Those numbers do not mean anything at all, I am convinced.

If you can't engage & respond respectfully please don't waste our time. If you disagree just say so, but I really have no patience for your mood swings and tirades.

 

[VCheng]

And many of us (including the military) have pointed out over the last several years that the military COIN tactics are not a long term solution, that the elected governments have to reform law enforcement and the judiciary and civilian institutions have to take over from the military.

Yes, that is true, and is also why the DG-ISPR announced the "mainstreaming" of madrassas for the civilians to carry out as directed. That will surely be extremely effective.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Yes, that is true, and is also why the DG-ISPR announced the "mainstreaming" of madrassas for the civilians to carry out as directed. That will surely be extremely effective.

Are you saying that this isn't a civilian led plan announced by the DG ISPR? And if yes, why?

 

[VCheng]

If you can't engage & respond respectfully please don't waste our time. If you disagree just say so, but I really have no patience for your mood swings and tirades.

Well, you explained all the ways all those people disappeared, and not a single one was taken by the agencies. Not one. Zero.

My acceptance of such a perfect record is not a tirade, but a resignation that no meaningful improvement or change will be forthcoming in such self-defeating policies.

Are you saying that this isn't a civilian led plan announced by the DG ISPR? And if yes, why?

No Sir, I am lauding such an effective step that should be carried out without delay. I would wait to see how the implementation proceeds.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Well, you explained all the ways all those people disappeared, and not a single one was taken by the agencies. Not one. Zero.

If you'd actually bother to read the comments instead of rushing into knee jerk Pakistan bashing and attacking the poster you'd see that I said no such thing:

" Yes, people were also likely picked up by LEA's & military/intel agencies because of intelligence obtained on their activities"

My acceptance of such a perfect record is not a tirade, but a resignation that no meaningful improvement or change will be forthcoming is such self-defeating policies.

Then say so instead of being disrespectful with sarcastic asides.

 

[bananarepublic]

Yes, that is true, and is also why the DG-ISPR announced the "mainstreaming" of madrassas for the civilians to carry out as directed. That will surely be extremely effective.

No one here is ready to face reality as to who is leading this program