Mao's Great Leap to Famine

[below_freezing]

Independent sources put the Chinese casualty in WWII at 10-20 million (7-16million civilian casualties) out of a population of approximately 520million. Which puts the percentage of casualty at 1.9 to 3.9%. Clicky
I'm not sure about the asset loss of $10 trillion. The GDP of China during WWII was less than $100 billion.

GDP does not equal total assets or lost assets due to opportunity cost, this shows a fundamental misunderstanding of economics.

Casualties and total losses are not the same either: some died indirectly from disease or famine. Because we are discussing total deaths, I thought it'll be best to compare things of the same class.

Armageddon Online - List of Famines

As you see, 10 million have died in famines in the period of Japanese aggression with unknown dead due to disease;.

World War II casualties - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

With 10 million from famine + the figures you have given here + unknown due to disease, the figure adds up to 35 million.

Also, some notes on the events of 1959-1961:

Great Chinese Famine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

These radical changes in farming organization coincided with adverse weather patterns including droughts and floods. In July 1959, the Yellow River flooded in East China. According to the Disaster Center,[8] it directly killed, either through starvation from crop failure or drowning, an estimated 2 million people, while other areas were affected in other ways as well. It could be ranked as one of the deadliest natural disasters of the 20th century.[9]

In 1960, at least some degree of drought and other bad weather affected 55 percent of cultivated land , while an estimated 60% of agricultural land received no rain at all.[10] The Encyclopædia Britannica yearbooks from 1958 to 1962 also reported abnormal weather, followed by droughts and floods. This included 30 inches (760 mm) of rain in Hong Kong across five days in June 1959, part of a pattern that hit all of Southern China.

As a result of these factors, year over year grain production in China dropped by 15% in 1959. By 1960, it was at 70% of its 1958 level. There was no recovery until 1962, after the Great Leap Forward ended.[11]

 

[Yeti]

Do you think starving million is funny? This is not what he can control, China was too poor and were forced to pay the huge debt to USSR.

What we blame about him is his lacking ability to fix the economy. He is a great military strategists, but not so good of taking care of economy.

But it was his own policies which led to the mass starvation of millions yes China was backward so was India at this moment in time but the 'great leap' okay there was positives but no person can say it did not lead to millions of deaths just like some of the economic policies of Stalin hence why now in Russia all statues of him are removed.


BTW Mao admired and looked up to Stalin and both had very similar ideals and economic plans such as 5yr ones.

 

[below_freezing]

Do you think starving million is funny? This is not what he can control, China was too poor and were forced to pay the huge debt to USSR.

What we blame about him is his lacking ability to fix the economy. He is a great military strategists, but not so good of taking care of the economy.

You are not thinking clearly. We need to see real evidence. The person who published this article is a no-name historian that claims to have access to secret documents that no one else has access to. I've asked many questions that are unanswerable by this model. In rigorous science, this is a major fault of the model that requires corrections.

Also, the picture he used is for a 1946 famine shown in life magazine. Google "1946 famine china".

1946 famine china life magazine - Google Search

here is the show.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

But it was his own policies which led to the mass starvation of millions yes China was backward so was India at this moment in time but the 'great leap' okay there was positives but no person can say it did not lead to millions of deaths just like some of the economic policies of Stalin hence why now in Russia all statues of him are removed.

So what's the point? Mao was dead over 30 years ago. And CCP is not same as before. And most Chinese did improve their living standard a lot. And most Chinese want to keep CCP as the central government. And stop blaming CCP for Mao's past economic plan.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

You are not thinking clearly. We need to see real evidence. The person who published this article is a no-name historian that claims to have access to secret documents that no one else has access to. I've asked many questions that are unanswerable by this model. In rigorous science, this is a major fault of the model that requires corrections.

Also, the picture he used is for a 1946 famine shown in life magazine. Google "1946 famine china".

1946 famine china life magazine - Google Search

here is the show.

Indeed, several factors were caused the famine in 1960s, not only Mao's policy.

1. The Devastation after the Japanese Invasion

2. Large amount of gold and wealth shifted by KMT after their defeat

3. The debt caused by USSR

Those who blame Mao for everything are indeed the Western perpetrator who wants a color revolution.

 

[Yeti]

So what's the point? Mao was dead over 30 years ago. And CCP is not same as before. And most Chinese did improve their living standard a lot. And most Chinese want to keep CCP as the central government. And stop blaming CCP for Mao's past economic plan.

Out of curiousity is Mao still a popular figure to Chinese people? its intresting now that Russia has removed Stalins body and his statues and many Russians are changing their mindset about him would the same apply to Chinese about Mao?

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Out of curiousity is Mao still a popular figure to Chinese people? its intresting now that Russia has removed Stalins body and his statues and many Russians are changing their mindset about him would the same apply to Chinese about Mao?

Chinese are Chinese, and Russians are Russians, and stop think that we should follow the conformity with Russians.

You know that Stalin wasn't even an ethnic Russian, he was a Georgian, so it makes sense that many Russian ultra-nationalists hate him. Many Russians did hold some racial prejudice against the people from Caucasus Area. Have you just follow the recent event of the football fans in Moscow?

 

[Water Car Engineer]

Do you think starving million is funny? This is not what he can control, China was too poor and were forced to pay the huge debt to USSR.

What we blame about him is his lacking ability to fix the economy. He is a great military strategists, but not so good of taking care of the economy.

YouTube - Declassified: Chairman Mao part 1 of 5

YouTube - Declassified: Chairman Mao part 2 of 5

YouTube - Declassified: Chairman Mao part 3 of 5

YouTube - Declassified: Chairman Mao part 4 of 5

YouTube - Declassified: Chairman Mao part 5 of 5

 

[Yeti]

Chinese are Chinese, and Russians are Russians, and stop think that we should follow the Russian conformity.

You know that Stalin wasn't even an ethnic Russian, he was a Georgian, so it makes sense that many Russian ultra-nationalists hate him. Many Russians did hold some racial prejudice against the people from Caucasus Area. Have you just aware the recent football fans event in Moscow?

Yes I know Neo-Nazis are getting very popular in Russia I for one will not be going to the WC even though Russian girls are very pretty real shame not sure if you ever seen this video on Nazi gangs in Moscow

YouTube - R Kemp on Gangs - Russia (Part 1-5)

 

[below_freezing]

Out of curiousity is Mao still a popular figure to Chinese people? its intresting now that Russia has removed Stalins body and his statues and many Russians are changing their mindset about him would the same apply to Chinese about Mao?

Yes, Mao is a popular figure. Now, you have to ask yourself this:

1.) the book claims that Mao oppressed the peasants
2.) rural people in China live together in large families and grandparents are responsible for caring for the young.
3.) all living chinese must all have grandparents that survived the famine of the 1950's (otherwise they would not be alive) and the grandparents must also know people who died if the famine was as widespread as they said.
4.) because grandparents are responsible for taking care of children, and also raised their own children who became parents, if the famine was as severe as they said then NO ONE COULD POSSIBLY RESPECT MAO.
5.) peasants made up the majority of china's population until 1998 therefore IF WHAT THEY SAID WAS TRUE THEN THE MAJORITY CANNOT RESPECT MAO.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Yes I know Neo-Nazis are getting very popular in Russia I for one will not be going to the WC even though Russian girls are very pretty real shame not sure if you ever seen this video on Nazi gangs in Moscow

YouTube - R Kemp on Gangs - Russia (Part 1-5)

So you realize that today's Russia is running by far right-wing nationalists and China is still communist. Therefore China and Russia have nothing in common. Why we should follow the Russians?

 

[Yeti]

So do you realize that today's Russia is running by far right-wing nationalists and China is still communists. Therefore China and Russia have nothing in common. Why we should follow the Russians?

I just thought the perception of Mao might have changed over time like it did with Stalin when Soviet Union became Russia

 

[below_freezing]

In his hometown, Mao a source of pride - CNN.com

Why the Chinese support the Communist party – Telegraph Blogs

"Qian Xiuzhen 93

I was born in Dongtai County, Jiangsu. My parents moved to Shanghai when I was little. Life was very hard. My father did all kinds of small work and business. He used to sell bricks from the ruins left by bombs. I started to go to work at age of eight, at a Japanese textile plant. My younger sisters worked at a cigarette company in Pudong. We did not have enough food to eat or warm clothes to wear, we really lived an impoverished life.

The war broke out on August 3, 1937. The bombs landed on the streets of Shanghai and many people died. At the time, you could only buy 100ml of cooking oil per person a month and there was nowhere to buy rice. People had to queue for long time and they fought for rice for their families.

Policemen in the French Concession used to beat up the people scrambling for rice, and if you were lucky enough to get rice, you still might be robbed by other hungry people. It was a miserable life. During the eight years of the war with Japan, and during Chiang Kai-shek’s regime, people could not buy anything and basically had nothing to eat.

Chiang Ching-kuo (Chiang Kai-shek’s son) set the price for all the products and people could hardly afford anything. Poor people had nothing to eat and the rich continued to be rich."

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

I just thought the perception of Mao might have changed over time like it did with Stalin when Soviet Union became Russia

Lenin was more ethnic Russian than Stalin, even with the collapse of USSR, his mummy was still preserved in the museum. Whereas Stalin's mummy was already burned by Khrushchev in 1960s.

Even during the communist era, they did not treat Stalin the same respect as Lenin because of his ethnic, not because of communism.

 

[below_freezing]

Why the Chinese support the Communist party – Telegraph Blogs

My happiest time was after Mao came into power. Our social status improved. People were allowed to express their views. Before, people had no right to speak out. After the founding of new China, the first parade, I was on the front row during the first parade. Foreign journalists from America and the Soviet Union took lots pictures of me. I was carrying a flower basket, walking down Huaihai road, it was very festive, and there was much excitement. I went out during the parade every year for many years, rain or shine.

In old China, women did not have a say, and the New China brought rights for women. In the old society, women were merely domestic helpers and stayed home doing chores. We were quite ignorant in the past. Nowadays, the kids get a college education, and some continue their studies abroad. For our generation, few received higher education or saw much of the world.

Nowadays I enjoy my old age with my children. I live in quite a big house. In the past we had a difficult time, the eye operation I just had, which cost 4,000 yuan, would have been unthinkable in the past. We could not afford to go to hospital. Now my children all make good money. They often invite us to eat out, which was impossible in the past.

Life has been much better now, much better, thanks to the Party, really. It started around the time of the reforms, when our children became independent.