Mao's Great Leap to Famine

[gpit]

Thanks for the calculations that show data manipulation. The archives have already shown that while starvation was present it was nowhere near the scale claimed by western sources. The publisher of this book could not even find photographic evidence so he used 1946's Famine In China (under the KMT) picture as the cover, I have already posted a link showing this. He has not given credit for this either, so this book not only has serious scholarship faults, it has a plaigarized cover!

LOL!

What else do you expect from crusaders and ideologists! But we must understand their urgency in venting their frustration due to their lack of knowledge of, and their hatred thereafter against, a system that is vastly deferent from their under-performing copy of Western system.

The loss of their basic rationality/sanity a human would otherwise possess renders them unable to provide any data/analysis but feeble propaganda, and leads to the creation of one laughing stock after another. In this forum alone, to demonstrate ideological correctness, wasn’t somebody so desperate as to use air-flow velocity to describe electro-magnetic fields around an aerofoil! WTF is that!

The more this type of farce goes on in this world, the more it makes us really think that there must be some merits in the Chinese system.

Propaganda is cheap, but scientific analysis is expensive and therefore more valuable.

Back to topic.

Population censuses have only been taken in the People's Republic of China in 1953, 1964, 1982, 1990, 2000, and 2010. (Census - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ) thus any data in between these years are only based on more error-prone interpolations/modifications, especially so when they are based on earlier years’ more erroneous censuses. Anybody who has basic knowledge of statistics/data processing knows this.

Further, it is obviously not true at all to say that people who don’t participate in census are dead people. I think this is the assumption taken by some otherwise would-be serious scholars who support 20-45million theory and is therefore fundamentally flawed academically.

Of course, we also comprehend the motivation/desperation of those who gleefully cite as facts the conjectures based on the wrong assumption.

 

[gpit]

Still go down in history as being responsible for more dead than even Hitler this is a cold hard fact some people refuse to see.

Speaking at The Independent Woodstock Literary Festival, Frank Dikötter, a Hong Kong-based historian, said he found that during the time that Mao was enforcing the Great Leap Forward in 1958, in an effort to catch up with the economy of the Western world, he was responsible for overseeing "one of the worst catastrophes the world has ever known".

Mr Dikötter, who has been studying Chinese rural history from 1958 to 1962, when the nation was facing a famine, compared the systematic torture, brutality, starvation and killing of Chinese peasants to the Second World War in its magnitude. At least 45 million people were worked, starved or beaten to death in China over these four years; the worldwide death toll of the Second World War was 55 million.



Mao's Great Leap Forward 'killed 45 million in four years' - News, Books - The Independent

I read the ferocious article you quoted. I’m eager to find new evidences from the article that support his arguments, but absolutely none is there.

Frankly, I believe Mr Dikötter is more fitting to spend time on studying how 100+ million Native American Indians were killed by the western colonists, as there are more raw materials ready to access on his part. For instance, he may be able to get evidences/proofs by digging up his grandparents’ family correspondence or their neighbors’, etc. ...

 

[Yeti]

I read the ferocious article you quoted. I’m eager to find new evidences from the article that support his arguments, but absolutely none is there.

Frankly, I believe Mr Dikötter is more fitting to spend time on studying how 100+ million Native American Indians were killed by the western colonists, as there are more raw materials ready to access on his part. For instance, he may be able to get evidences/proofs by digging up his grandparents’ family correspondence or their neighbors’, etc. ...

The book has been very well recieved Jung Chang, author of Mao: The Unknown Story, called the book: "The most authoritative and comprehensive study of the biggest and most lethal famine in history. A must-read."

Her parents were both Communist Party of China officials so she must have some idea of what she is talking about having been born in China.

 

[gpit]

The book has been very well recieved Jung Chang, author of Mao: The Unknown Story, called the book: "The most authoritative and comprehensive study of the biggest and most lethal famine in history. A must-read."

Her parents were both Communist Party of China officials so she must have some idea of what she is talking about having been born in China.

LOL! Too many She, Her parents, etc. too less your brain. Have you used your brain to ask: why she publishes this book? What is the motivation? How many personal benefits she thus receives? How much personal hatred she can vent (perhaps for her parents due to factional struggle within the party)? Who are the publishers? Any other sponsorship behind? Any coercions exerted by her publisher?

Nobody denies there was a famine in China half-century ago. In a developing country, even today that materials are so abundant, we still see famines in your democratic country, which is truly shameful. The question is about the number: how do they derive it, and based on what sources, and show us the source? Please show us!

Too many sensational BS in propaganda here but often lack substantiating materials such as (copy of) original documents, pictures, scientific analysis, etc. on the subject.

Fortunately, many educated people are not as gullible.

 

[asianamerican]

The book has been very well recieved Jung Chang, author of Mao: The Unknown Story, called the book: "The most authoritative and comprehensive study of the biggest and most lethal famine in history. A must-read."

Her parents were both Communist Party of China officials so she must have some idea of what she is talking about having been born in China.

First of All, she is a British citizen and her husband is another white historian. So she is probably have something against Chinese, hardly speaking for Chinese people. Another Amy Tan, Maxine Hong Kingston, we have many of those Chinese women author who love taking a **** on Chinese/Asian people while holding hands with their white colonizer.

She obviously have some biased views about it since her parents were affected by Mao's policies.

Most of these "historians" and authors are not objectives. Noticed how any Chinese author who is critical of China and write negatively on China history are very adored by Western countries (Jung Chang, Amy Tan, Maxine Kingston, Liu Xiaobo, etc). There are so many example that is starting to look like a conspiracy. Jung Chang wrote her last book with her white historian husband - obviously biased.

If you want to be "authorative" historian on Chinese historian in the West, all you need to paint the whole country in a negative while excusing Western imperialism and you'll be meet with a lot adoration from westerns and be rich.

It is getting ridiculous, when it is so obvious, yet people refused to see it.

 

[below_freezing]

That was one video from CIA records does not prove anything nor does it mean millions did not parish due to Mao's economic policies.


YouTube - Uncovering the truth behind Mao's Great Famine

hi, that video is of the publisher of the book talking about HIS BOOK and it also shamefully plaigarized images from the 1940's before the communist party even got close to power.

chinese famine 1946 LIFE magazine - Google ËÑË÷

also the first image is of a doctor treating a victim, let's assume they're both chinese from that period. guess it wasn't deliberate. i don't even see indian doctors treating famine victims, they don't even care anymore, just 1 more dead body floating down the ganges.

 

[gpit]

hi, that video is of the publisher of the book talking about HIS BOOK and it also shamefully plaigarized images from the 1940's before the communist party even got close to power.

chinese famine 1946 LIFE magazine - Google ËÑË÷

also the first image is of a doctor treating a victim, let's assume they're both chinese from that period. guess it wasn't deliberate. i don't even see indian doctors treating famine victims, they don't even care anymore, just 1 more dead body floating down the ganges.

Guess what, buddy? Those anti-communism idiots don’t have the intelligence, or IQ, or history knowledge … to differentiate CPC from KMT, ROC from PRC. They grab a miserable picture resulted from KMT ruling, and label it with CPC.

I feel bad for those fools whose “hard” work always yields opposite results, and feel even worse for those who have financially sponsored them.

 

[cera]

Ignoring the purpose of the person who brought up this topic, there are a few things we should all learn about the history:

1) A bad policy is usually based on the misunderstanding of the situation. It often brings misfortune to its own people. For India folks here, the "Forward Policy" is an example. I sincerely hope my India folks will learn from that defeat and don't make that kind of mistake again, and also understand why China cleaned and returned all the captured weapons back to India.

2) History books are written by people. Different people can use different words to write a history event to reflect their own opinions or political standards. Someone can event distort the facts. A smart person should always read things from different sources in order to get a real picture. A low IQ person will like to selectively pick up something that fit his/her own taste to bash other people. About the topic, I'd like to answer my India folks here, how many Chinese history books (written in Chinese) that you have read? Mostly like is 0. What it means is that all you have read about China is from western or English books. Just ask youself, from where the author got that 70 million number?

Use your brain, not your lips or ears to think. This is my advice.

 

[siegecrossbow]

A low IQ person will like to selectively pick up something that fit his/her own taste to bash other people.

Not really a matter of IQ and more of a matter of seeing what he or she wishes to see.

 

[siegecrossbow]

Guess what, buddy? Those anti-communism idiots don’t have the intelligence, or IQ, or history knowledge … to differentiate CPC from KMT, ROC from PRC.

Just reminded me of how most of my peers are under the impression that China practiced Western democracy under Chiang Kai Shek's rule. Funny how Kim Jong Il is getting most of the negative attention, if you know what I mean.