Maoists will overthrow govt much before 2050 : Kishenji

[Iggy]

Yes, and the situation is much worse now, forcing Indian govt to deploy 100,000 troops to deal with much stronger Maoists force with increased violence hurting Indian state and the economy in terms of land deals, mining contracts, coal, etc.

Haq's Musings: India Targets Rights Groups as Maoist Insurgency Grows

Where do you get the idea of 10,00,000 troops??and how is you think situation is worse now..do you readd any thing Indians posted here???Kishenji is asking for cease fire and talks..Chidabaram asked them to send a fax and maoists were so desperate that they agreed to send it ..but the operation was going good that govt didnt respond to that and in an act of desperation Kishenji is now making ultimatum and all kind of threats and govt is now giving tow hoot about it..The desperation in the line of Naxals about the on going police and paramilitary operation is clearly visible in the statements of the leaders..incase you dont know kishenjis right hand man also being caught by the police and now he is in jail along with some other main leaders...

 

[RiazHaq]

Where do you get the idea of 10,00,000 troops??and how is you think situation is worse now..do you readd any thing Indians posted here???Kishenji is asking for cease fire and talks..Chidabaram asked them to send a fax and maoists were so desperate that they agreed to send it ..but the operation was going good that govt didnt respond to that and in an act of desperation Kishenji is now making ultimatum and all kind of threats and govt is now giving tow hoot about it..The desperation in the line of Naxals about the on going police and paramilitary operation is clearly visible in the statements of the leaders..incase you dont know kishenjis right hand man also being caught by the police and now he is in jail along with some other main leaders...

Maoists are a grassroots movement that can not be quelled by arresting a few leaders. As long as India continues to deny the rights of tribals to their land and resources, and the the farmers continue to commit suicides in large numbers because of desperate rural poverty and the rich-poor gap continues to grow, the Maoists will continue to gain strength.

Haq's Musings: Challenges of Indian Democracy

 

[Iggy]

Maoists are a grassroots movement that can not be quelled by arresting a few leaders. As long as India continues to deny the rights of tribals to their land and resources, and the the farmers continue to commit suicides in large numbers because of desperate rural poverty and the rich-poor gap continues to grow, the Maoists will continue to gain strength.

Haq's Musings: Challenges of Indian Democracy

Thats what i am saying govt is pledged to do devalopmental works and improvement in backward areas along with the police depolyment..If you miss the recent news about Maoists growing support here is one for you..


Maoists kill 11, burn homes in Bihar revenge

important point :

"It is learnt that the village was attacked by firing and explosives because the villagers had been unwilling to support and join the Maoists for a long time," Mr Dutt said in Patna.

 

[jbond197]

Maoists are a grassroots movement that can not be quelled by arresting a few leaders. As long as India continues to deny the rights of tribals to their land and resources, and the the farmers continue to commit suicides in large numbers because of desperate rural poverty and the rich-poor gap continues to grow, the Maoists will continue to gain strength.

Haq's Musings: Challenges of Indian Democracy

Oh its such a sorry picture isn't it? Grassroots movement yes bunch of bandits are part of your imaginary grassroot movement. Regarding Tribals ever heard of Salwa Judum ( "Peace March") its a anti naxalite people's resistance movement by the same tribals. This along with development /education in Maoists infected regions has given good results in Jharkhand/Chatisgarh and is followed in other places too.

Also the smaller states were created in these areas so that they can be better governed and lead to the overall development of the area.
Rich and poor gap will continue to go down the way as india keeps developing.

When there is political will, overall economic development, education, people support, CRPF in place to keep a check on Maoists activities, I am not sure how the Maoists will continue to gain strength, May be in your dreams.. Few people even in dreams keep imagining about India..

 

[SMC]

Dude what are you doing in Canada, such a brilliant thinker should be there in ISI head quarter.

You're right about that. I will be applying in the next 2 hours.

 

[below_freezing]

Let me guess...You are making this argument based on the assumption that the mother died IMMEDIATELY after the birth of her child?



China experienced an overall decline in mortality rate and to this day, China has one of the higher life expectancy figure in Asia. Look at this at a smaller scale...I have two parents and am the only child. By the time I married and have my own family also with only one child, my parents are still living and probably still in the work force. Their replacement birth rate is unequal, there is only me but two of them. The desire is to have parity, of course, but even if there is a lower birth rate, we are talking about a time span of decades until someone dies. The result is that over that time span, we will have a population increase despite the lower replacement birth rate due to increased longevity. My family unit has too low a birth replacement rate, only me to replace my parents and my child to replace me and my wife, but overall our family count doubled from the time of my birth until the birth of my own child.

Crude Birth Rate


For China, the post 'Great Leap Foward' and the 'one child per family' policy population increase cannot deny the existence of families who had more than one child, hid that illegal birth from the government and raised that extra child in secret. By the time he or she is an adult, his or her illegal birth become irrelevant and he or she will be counted into the general population. Your Ethiopia argument failed because Africa's CDR does not offset its CBR the way China's figures has.

For example...

List of countries by death rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Look at China's CDR (7.1 per 1K) compared to Ethiopia (11.5 per 1K).

Now we look at the CBR of both countries just for 1970 alone...

UNICEF - China - Statistics


UNICEF - Ethiopia - Statistics


See the great disparity between the two countries? We can go a little more detailed...

UNdata | record view | Crude death rate (per 1,000 population)


That is the CDR for three countries in the same 5-yr time span.

Now we look at the CBR...

UNdata | record view | Crude birth rate (per 1,000 population)


As we can see within that 5-yr time span, it is the CBR-CDR ratio that mattered. Ethiopia's and China's birth-to-death ratio was roughly 3:1, higher than America's 2:1.

Now we add in life expectancy...

UNdata | record view | Life expectancy at birth, both sexes combined (years)


Mortality rate is independent of the CDR because...

Mortality rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Can be, not must.

From post WW II to 1975, China's life expectancy increased from 35 yrs to 63 yrs...



...But Ethiopia's life expectancy remain statistically unchanged as we can see with 1965-1970 and 1970-1975. Not only that, Africa is known for having a continuous history of natural and manmade disasters and when faced with these events, we can have movements by large groups over time as they tried to escape their misfortunes. This would affect Ethiopia's population count, therefore rendered Ethiopia ineffective in your feeble argument to remove the communists' guilt from China's famine.

China's life expectancy pretty much doubled, which lowered the CDR over time, which explain:

- The steady population increase despite the 'one child per family' policy,

...And...

- How the famine's horrific deaths were recoverable.

This make the famine largely irrelevant to your argument and should be examined as a standalone event. The famine was a communist induced tragedy that you cannot tap dance around. Numbers do not lie but people do. And communists, be they Chinese, Russians or <whoever>, are the greatest liars of all to date.

how can the life expectancy double in the period of communist rule if they were so terrible at economic management that a famine killed 10% of the population then? it makes no sense. how can a party so stupid and dishonest, raise the average lifespan 2x? indeed, to such a degree, that it would offset decreasing 10% of the population?

in contrast to the Republic of China which did not experience significant population growth despite a real famine, and indeed to the previous Qing Dynasty, as evidenced by data 1850-1950?

 

[RiazHaq]

Oh its such a sorry picture isn't it? Grassroots movement yes bunch of bandits are part of your imaginary grassroot movement. Regarding Tribals ever heard of Salwa Judum ( "Peace March") its a anti naxalite people's resistance movement by the same tribals. This along with development /education in Maoists infected regions has given good results in Jharkhand/Chatisgarh and is followed in other places too.

Also the smaller states were created in these areas so that they can be better governed and lead to the overall development of the area.
Rich and poor gap will continue to go down the way as india keeps developing.

When there is political will, overall economic development, education, people support, CRPF in place to keep a check on Maoists activities, I am not sure how the Maoists will continue to gain strength, May be in your dreams.. Few people even in dreams keep imagining about India..

Indian government has hired, armed and trained private militias like Salwa Judum in its war against the Maoists in Chhattisgarh and other Indian states. There have been allegations in the past two years of rape, murder and extortion by Judum and other such private armies backed by the state.

Can private militias be legal? - upiasia.com

Haq's Musings: Privatization of Key State Functions in Pakistan

 

[Iggy]

Indian government has hired, armed and trained private militias like Salwa Judum in its war against the Maoists in Chhattisgarh and other Indian states. There have been allegations in the past two years of rape, murder and extortion by Judum and other such private armies backed by the state.

Can private militias be legal? - upiasia.com

Haq's Musings: Privatization of Key State Functions in Pakistan

This is absolute bullshit you are talking, salwa judum was encouraged by state government of Jharkand only and nothing to do with Central government ..the organisation was created by the people to tackle the red menace and the state government supported them..it was only resulted in conflicts between naxals and salwa judum...The Centre government is enouraging and equpping the state police to do with the work and they are supported by paramilitary force..and about the allegation of Rape ,some time the naxals inorder to thrash salwa judum also commited the crime..the Salwa Judum is now where present now as govt dont support them further

Haq why are you giving 2008 articles about allegations in the past two years of rape, murder and extortion?its 2010..Judum is no where in the picture ..Naxal operations is now done by state police and CRPF..are you posting for the sake of posting??

 

[gambit]

how can the life expectancy double in the period of communist rule if they were so terrible at economic management that a famine killed 10% of the population then? it makes no sense. how can a party so stupid and dishonest, raise the average lifespan 2x? indeed, to such a degree, that it would offset decreasing 10% of the population?

in contrast to the Republic of China which did not experience significant population growth despite a real famine, and indeed to the previous Qing Dynasty, as evidenced by data 1850-1950?

There are many simple things that can increase life expectancy over generations without resorting to wealth and this is where you are confused. Simple things like cleaner water, pesticide or even better ventilation indoors. Give it up. You tried statistics and it did not work. The famines in the Ukraine, China, North Viet Nam, and even near famine in Chile were the results of incompetent communist 'economic' policies. Anywhere communism is practiced, the results have always been miseries in every aspects of a person's life.

 

[Nemesis]

There is no way the Maoists can attack cities. They just do not have that kind of support base to carry out such an attack. A hit and run attack may work in tribal areas where state presence is limited, but it will not work in any major city or even a tier two or three city for that matter.

This talk of overthrowing the government much before 2050 is a bit ridiculous. They do not have the capacity to fight the full might of the state. They, despite what Kishenji would like us to believe, are not organized enough. The only reason that they have been able to gain a foothold in some areas is because of government apathy and massive corruption which resulted in the tribal population turning against the government.

In that case, you are still in for a decade long fight with over 100,000 troops committed. Do you not think this will create massive problems for the economy, stability and future prospects?

No it won't. The Maoist insurgency is not a new phenomenon, the Indian state has been dealing with it since the 60's. It didn't affect us before, why should it affect our stability now?

Indian government has hired, armed and trained private militias like Salwa Judum in its war against the Maoists in Chhattisgarh and other Indian states. There have been allegations in the past two years of rape, murder and extortion by Judum and other such private armies backed by the state.

Don't talk about things you know nothing about. It is the Jharkhand state government which created Salwa Judum, not the centre. It only operates in that state and some parts of Bihar. Because of criticism from the SC, the militia is in the process of been disbanded.

 

[Hulk]

For the Maoist Fanboys..
The only reason they are any force today is because of lack of political will, politicians are given protection and care less about others.

Maoists feel the heat, seek new hideouts in urban jungles

Maoists trying to shield their top brass from rapidly intensifying government operations in their jungle bases have instructed cadres and sympathizers to identify hideouts in India&#8217;s bigger cities, which are currently not under watch for a Naxal presence.

It is reliably learnt that security agencies have picked up credible information about instructions being sent out to identify hideouts in cities like Ahmedabad, Surat and Baroda, and the state of Goa.

While the Maoists keep replacing politburo members who are nabbed, sources said the absence of six or seven key politburo members who have been arrested so far is bound to impact the rebel leadership.

The Maoist central committee comprises 37 members, including 14 politburo members. Twelve of them are in custody &#8212; among them, Kobad Gandhy, Amit Bagchi, Arvind alias Balraj who headed operations in Uttar Pradesh, Pramod Mishra, Susheel Roy and Narayan Sanyal.

The arrest of top Orissa Maoist Sabhyasachi Panda&#8217;s wife has galvanised the state police, who had thus far been lukewarm to the push against the rebels.

Coordinated operations in Chhattisgarh have started delivering results. There was a 70 per cent decline in police casualties in the second half of last year: while 65 policemen including paramilitary forces personnel lost their lives between January and June, 2009, only 19 were killed in the six months that followed.

The number of blasts triggered by Naxals went down from 34 in the first half of 2009 to 18 in the second.

These successes coincided with Chhattisgarh launching its local Operation Green Hunt in the latter half of 2009. Soon afterward, as the Centre pushed for joint operations, the borders of Chhattisgarh with Jharkhand and Maharashtra became the first theatres of coordinated action against the Maoists. Orissa is now being prepared so that Maoist cadres find it difficult to move to safe havens.

In the wake of this assault, sources said, the Maoists are worried for their senior leaders, which explains their urgency to find hideouts in big cities to escape detection. Repeated instructions have apparently been sent to sympathizers to help at this juncture.

The rebels also appear to be facing a crunch of arms and ammunition. With one of their main explosives making facilities busted in Chhattisgarh, the supply of bombs and mines has been hit. Increased vigilance from the state police has made their challenge tougher.

But the biggest positive for the operation, sources said, has been the growing cooperation from local inhabitants who are now willing to share information and play a vital role in intelligence-led assaults. The gradual erosion of the Maoists&#8217; local support is what the Centre is seeking to achieve as a near-term political objective.

 

[RiazHaq]

A recently released ministry of rural development report in India accuses the government and companies like Tata and Essar of a corporate takeover in the hinterland of Chhattisgarh. It describes it as the "the biggest grab of tribal lands after Columbus."

The Indian government has now offered to suspend all contracts with mining companies in central and eastern parts of the country in a bid to persuade the rebels to lay down their weapons. Violence in Lalgarh has worried the country's third-largest steel producer, JSW Steel, which is setting up a $7-billion, 10-million ton steel plant in the area. India also depends heavily on coal as a primary source for its energy needs, and about 20-25&#37; of Indian coal mining is affected by the ongoing Maoists insurgency, according to Asia Times.

Haq's Musings: India Targets Rights Groups as Maoist Insurgency Grows

 

[FlickerSingh]

this maoist news is such stale news now. we really need a new insurgency group in india. how about an insurgency group which wants us 2 become capitalists lol ?

 

[RiazHaq]

There is no way the Maoists can attack cities. They just do not have that kind of support base to carry out such an attack. A hit and run attack may work in tribal areas where state presence is limited, but it will not work in any major city or even a tier two or three city for that matter.

This talk of overthrowing the government much before 2050 is a bit ridiculous. They do not have the capacity to fight the full might of the state. They, despite what Kishenji would like us to believe, are not organized enough. The only reason that they have been able to gain a foothold in some areas is because of government apathy and massive corruption which resulted in the tribal population turning against the government.



No it won't. The Maoist insurgency is not a new phenomenon, the Indian state has been dealing with it since the 60's. It didn't affect us before, why should it affect our stability now?



Don't talk about things you know nothing about. It is the Jharkhand state government which created Salwa Judum, not the centre. It only operates in that state and some parts of Bihar. Because of criticism from the SC, the militia is in the process of been disbanded.

Go ask your AP high court, I bet they know more than you or I, having heard all arguments.

The Hindu : Opinion / News Analysis : Set Binayak Sen free now

UNHCR | Refworld | Amnesty International Report 2008 - India

 

[gpit]

There are many simple things that can increase life expectancy over generations without resorting to wealth and this is where you are confused. Simple things like cleaner water, pesticide or even better ventilation indoors. Give it up. You tried statistics and it did not work. The famines in the Ukraine, China, North Viet Nam, and even near famine in Chile were the results of incompetent communist 'economic' policies. Anywhere communism is practiced, the results have always been miseries in every aspects of a person's life.

WOW, now you are painting a rosy picture for communism for the first time, for praising communism to provide “cleaner water, pesticide or even better ventilation indoors”. Obviously, pre-communist China was doing inferior in these "simple" areas.

Are you telling us famines in India, Africa today are caused by communism?