Mandalisation Of Muslim Politics In India: A Shift From Religious Identity

[indian_jigar]

wow these people. they really think they r going to be able to fight for their rights if they divide themselves further. India doesn't discriminate against them because they are ajlafs or arzals, but because they are Muslim.

Yes because clearly a Pakistani living in Canada has more insight on this issue than the actual sufferers of discrimination who are speaking out in India.

 

[Subramanian]

Mate noramlly you lot are telling us that you are secular and that is in your constitution. But I have been the one that has been saying that minds hearts and attitude need changing not laws

Minds,hearts and Attitude is already there thats why you guys flushed the hindus and sikhs out in 1947 and we still have our muslims despite all the crap that happened over the years and still tolerating them.I wish we were not secular,i really wish like you said but most Indians here would disagree with them.

 

[Bhairava]

Tell me one line or word which mentions Muslims or non-Muslims? Does that say kill/convert/**** with/make their lives a hell.etc etc non-Muslims? NO? Well, eat your **** then

Well it doesnt matter what is in theory...practically that is what your "Ghazis" did the world over.

And if I give verses differentiating between momins and kaffirs you lot will say they are misguided or quoted out of context...

 

[DRaisinHerald]

Well it doesnt matter what is in theory...practically that is what your "Ghazis" did the world over.

And if I give verses differentiating between momins and kaffirs you lot will say they are misguided or quoted out of context...

Nope, Momin are obviously believers and Kafir are obviously non-believers Good job working that out.
There's obviously a clear difference between those that have accepted God's religion and those that haven't...
But this doesn't mean "kafir" should be killed

Look around you, Israel and Jews: Israelites and Gentiles. That's their concept, and several times does their Bible mention them being different than Gentiles, superior....yet for you narrow-sighted haters, Islam is the thing that supposedly preaches "hate" or Believer-superiority....

 

[indian_jigar]

All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over black nor a black has any superiority over white except by piety and good action. - Last sermon of the Prophet (PBHU)

Tell me one line or word which mentions Muslims or non-Muslims? Does that say kill/convert/**** with/make their lives a hell.etc etc non-Muslims? NO? Well, eat your **** then

Yeah you are right. There is no hatred for non-Muslims. This is actualy a Hindu-Christianity-Jewish conspiracy and they "edited" the Quran (just like we edit posts on PDF) to make Muslims look bad.

You claim to be a Muslim, but have you even read the Quran?

Top 10 Controversial Verses in the Qur'an - WikiIslam


"Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Messenger have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection."
Qur'an 9:29

 

[indian_jigar]

what is so unacceptable. don't blacks and other visible minorities enjoy reservation in US, UK, and Canada. they make up a huge proportion of the population but the people here admit and acknowledge the existence of institutionalized discrimination..u guys are still in denial even after u see the statistics and keep harping about Shahrukh Khan and Salman Khan as your counter arguments...obviously if in your minds there is no problem...a solution like reservation seems "unacceptable" for u...secular my ***



well at least this guy is being honest unlike those who pretend that "secular" India accepts their Muslims...i guess u guys weren't braced for the fact that most of us would've stayed behind...bitterness and hatred prevails.

You very well know why blacks in USA cannot be compared to Muslims in India, but I guess you want me to say it as well.

You are comparing Muslims who came as invaders (and ruled parts of North India for 400 to 550 years) to India to Blacks who were forcefully taken to USA as SLAVES. Blacks did not have voting rights in the United States constitution for 300 odd years. For 250 odd years, they were officially considered slaves as per the US law.

Since the first day India was created on 15th August 1947, we have had this line(from the Constitution of India itself):

14. Equality before law.—The State shall not deny to any person
equality before the law or the equal protection of the laws within the territory of
India.
15. Prohibition of discrimination on grounds of religion, race, caste,
sex or place of birth.—(1) The State shall not discriminate against any citizen
on grounds only of religion, race, caste, sex, place of birth or any of them.
(2) No citizen shall, on grounds only of religion, race, caste, sex, place of
birth or any of them, be subject to any disability, liability, restriction or
condition with regard to—
(a) access to shops, public restaurants, hotels and places of public
entertainment; or
(b) the use of wells, tanks, bathing ghats, roads and places of
public resort maintained wholly or partly out of State funds or dedicated
to the use of the general public

Get this line in your constitution before preaching secularism to us.

 

[PAKBARBIE]

You very well know why blacks in USA cannot be compared to Muslims in India, but I guess you want me to say it as well.

You are comparing Muslims who came as invaders (and ruled parts of North India for 400 to 550 years) to India to Blacks who were forcefully taken to USA as SLAVES. Blacks did not have voting rights in the United States constitution for 300 odd years. For 250 odd years, they were officially considered slaves as per the US law.

Since the first day India was created on 15th August 1947, we have had this line(from the Constitution of India itself):

14. Equality before law.—The State shall not deny to any person
equality before the law or the equal protection of the laws within the territory of
India.
15. Prohibition of discrimination on grounds of religion, race, caste,
sex or place of birth.—(1) The State shall not discriminate against any citizen
on grounds only of religion, race, caste, sex, place of birth or any of them.
(2) No citizen shall, on grounds only of religion, race, caste, sex, place of
birth or any of them, be subject to any disability, liability, restriction or
condition with regard to—
(a) access to shops, public restaurants, hotels and places of public
entertainment; or
(b) the use of wells, tanks, bathing ghats, roads and places of
public resort maintained wholly or partly out of State funds or dedicated
to the use of the general public

Get this line in your constitution before preaching secularism to us.

um i dunno what history books you read but Islam was mainly spread in the subcontinent through people converting. most of the Muslim coverts previously held pagan beliefs. we didn't come and "invade" anyone like you assume. not many of us have nawab or mughal lineage we were people of the indic region too...so technically we were invaded too

but basically ur argument is because Muslim emperors invaded india and ruled india...all the present-day Muslims should be punished...

wow u had that whole paragraph for over 60 years and still no progress..i guess its good for decor

 

[harpoon]

wow someones getting a bit personal and being awfully assumptive never hated India or Indians. my cousins still live in India and visit us often. and i love them to death! my grandparents loved india but unfortunately had to move because their life was in danger and hindu mobs destroyed their shop in 1947. in fact, unlike most pakistanis i grew up hearing positive things about india rather than negative.

thats why it breaks my heart to know what is happening there cause it is relevant to them and sadly millions of Muslims. i have no urge to vomit except on the faces of people who hate on and oppress Muslims. thats why i condemn all the anti-Muslim acts and people there. i hope u understand my mindset now

p.s. thx but no thanks to the invitation

So in your family one part embraced the concept of Pakistan and moved there while the other part rejected the concept of Pakistan and decided to stay back in India.

Anyways I stand by what I said. Muslims lost their chance of complaining in 1947, when they successfully got the largest reservation in the history of mankind....a country for themselves called Pakistan. If they chose to remain back in India, they should have known that India is a secular country where reservation based on religion is not allowed by constitution. So there is no point in complaining. If they feel that they are being victimized bcs of their religion, they are free to move to Pakistan.

 

[Bhairava]

Nope, Momin are obviously believers and Kafir are obviously non-believers Good job working that out.
There's obviously a clear difference between those that have accepted God's religion and those that haven't...
But this doesn't mean "kafir" should be killed

Correct....doing so is a heinous crime and I take your word quran doesn't command that..but unfortunately that is what happened in the last 1400 years after Islam came into existence..right from Arab atrocities in Persia, Tamerlanes massacres in Arabia,India, Mahmuds of Ghzni,Gori, Babur,Aurangazeb etc etc..

Look around you, Israel and Jews: Israelites and Gentiles. That's their concept, and several times does their Bible mention them being different than Gentiles, superior....yet for you narrow-sighted haters, Islam is the thing that supposedly preaches "hate" or Believer-superiority....

All Abrahamic religions have the same "you vs us" concept..a frankly idiotic thing, unbecoming of spiritual faiths and more suiting a political idealogy.

 

[PAKBARBIE]

So in your family one part embraced the concept of Pakistan and moved there while the other part rejected the concept of Pakistan and decided to stay back in India.

Anyways I stand by what I said. Muslims lost their chance of complaining in 1947, when they successfully got the largest reservation in the history of mankind....a country for themselves called Pakistan. If they chose to remain back in India, they should have known that India is a secular country where reservation based on religion is not allowed by constitution. So there is no point in complaining. If they feel that they are being victimized bcs of their religion, they are free to move to Pakistan.

A secular India was promised to them and they may have felt that they were going to be treated like regular not second-class citizens. So they were pretty much duped. They obviously didn’t have enough insight as Jinnah, whose prediction of Muslims in post-Independence India turned out to be true. Why should they leave, its as much their land as it is yours. If you can’t stand Muslims and want them out of your face, give them another piece of land cause they didn’t fall from the sky. They lived on that land for centuries just like you.

Regardless they are not asking for a new country or land, they are asking to be treated like human beings. Just shows your pathetic character as you don’t even consider them worthy of that much.

 

[notsuperstitious]

I'm all for positive discrimination for the poor, irrespective of religion.

I'm totally against positive discrimination or negative discrimination based on religion. We are only creating one more monster that will only work to divide forever. Pakistani thekedars won't and frankly don't want to understand what I'm saying here because their whole ideology is based on separatism and entitlement. They've got what they wanted and are making a fine job of it, but given their love of India, won't they love to see a repeat and few million more dead!

 

[harpoon]

A secular India was promised to them and they may have felt that they were going to be treated like regular not second-class citizens. So they were pretty much duped. They obviously didn’t have enough insight as Jinnah, whose prediction of Muslims in post-Independence India turned out to be true. Why should they leave, its as much their land as it is yours. If you can’t stand Muslims and want them out of your face, give them another piece of land cause they didn’t fall from the sky. They lived on that land for centuries just like you.

Regardless they are not asking for a new country or land, they are asking to be treated like human beings. Just shows your pathetic character as you don’t even consider them worthy of that much.

A secular country is promised to them and that what they will get. Indian constitution expressly prohibits reservations based on religion and that applies to all religions including Muslims. Muslims cannot be treated as a special case over other religions. So they can forget about Muslim based reservation. As for separate land they already have Pakistan (which was formed as a result of 2 nation theory), they are free to move there if they feel that they are being victimized in India.

I'm all for positive discrimination for the poor, irrespective of religion.

I'm totally against positive discrimination or negative discrimination based on religion. We are only creating one more monster that will only work to divide forever. Pakistani thekedars won't and frankly don't want to understand what I'm saying here because their whole ideology is based on separatism and entitlement. They've got what they wanted and are making a fine job of it, but given their love of India, won't they love to see a repeat and few million more dead!

Caste Lobby will not allow that and we need a better form of identification of the poor other than BPL ration cards to successfully implement this.

 

[Bhairava]

A secular India was promised to them and they may have felt that they were going to be treated like regular not second-class citizens. So they were pretty much duped. .

Still nothing is lost..the land of milk and honey on our westerns borders is waiting for them.

 

[PAKBARBIE]

A secular country is promised to them and that what they will get. Indian constitution expressly prohibits reservations based on religion and that applies to all religions including Muslims. Muslims cannot be treated as a special case over other religions. So they can forget about Muslim based reservation. As for separate land they already have Pakistan, they are free to move there if they feel that they are being victimized in India.
Caste Lobby will not allow that and we need a better form of identification of the poor other than BPL ration cards to successfully implement this.

when? in 2312?

so your solution to their problems is to get rid of them...nice

 

[harpoon]

when? in 2312?

so your solution to their problems is to get rid of them...nice

Do have comprehension problem or what? Reservation based on religion is unconstitutional in India..deal with it.

And yeah I believe that partition should have gone through 100% in 1947 with all Muslim population going to Pakistan and all non-Muslim population going to India. Should have avoided us a lot of headaches.