Maliki calls for making Karbala the new Qibla .................

[Irfan Baloch]

Not bad idea, for shias its the holiest places as per my knowledge.. can any shia confirm?

I will let a shia confirm himself but there is a very simple yard stick to decide if you ask me about being a Muslim whether a shia or sunni

Oneness of God and Prophet Muhammad PBUH being his Messenger
both Shia and Sunni recite that and therefore the holiest sites in order are Qiblah in Mecca and Mosque of Muhammed PBUH in Madina the Mosque in Jerusalem (it was our first place we used to pray towards) comes next... after that one can argue about the hierarchy.

in order to defeat the Umayat Caliphate from eradicating the traces of the Prophet's family... the survivors of Karbala massacre started to commemorate the ritual of mourning ... so that ordinary Muslims like us understood the sacrifice and stayed with Muhammad PBUH's Islam...

if a shia places shia specific site all above then its his personal view, just like A deobandi (wahabi) scholar famously peed off a Sunni Sufi Muslim by suggesting that God's Blessing were much closer in Raiwand (in Punjab) while both were at Mosque of the Prophet Muhammed PBUH in Madina.

dont spend too much time over it. an American installed PM has made a statement without understanding the religious implications

am a fan of al maliki... what do you think of his suggestion? agree or no agree .. or neutral.

thats an uncalled for comment and you dont realize how much trouble it will cause

 

[Armstrong]

am a fan of al maliki... what do you think of his suggestion? agree or no agree .. or neutral.

No Comment !

 

[livingdead]

No Comment !

very smart .

 

[KingMamba]

So rassul allah phrase should become allah alone?!!

My english is very weak other wise I wrote here 2 pages with non stop.
Anyway climbing everest is much easier than talking to U headstrongs !!!!!!!!

@Talon I think you are arguing with him for no reason because like he said his English is not too good.

Thats why I said - If it is found out !

Even Ahmedis in Pakistan don't go about with 'I am an Ahmedi' painted on the front & back of their T-Shirts !

And because there is no Sectarian Census in Pakistan no one really knows how many Ahmedis, Shias, Sunnis, Ismailis, Bohras & the many sects within these sects are present in Pakistan !

Ahmadis don't have Pakistani passports?

Muslims will never fall. They will win like Prophet time.
U pakistani brothers should change ur mind.
A very important freindly offer.

Change mind about what baradar?

 

[Dubious]

@Talon I think you are arguing with him for no reason because like he said his English is not too good.

Ahmadis don't have Pakistani passports?

said so who? they just tick yes i am a muslim and ignore the rest

 

[Armstrong]

Ahmadis don't have Pakistani passports?

Not all Ahmeds declare that they are Ahmedis !

 

[mahatir]

Yes I meaned Wahabi cult but saudis have had many actions even they wanted to wreck Prophet(Sawas) Shrine and did not let rebuild Imams(Saa)Shrines near Prophet shrine.

shrines are not part of Islamic faith , this is a persian practise has nothing to do with Islam

I am happy to see him declare this , Just waiting when the shia announce that Ali is their true god.

 

[BATMAN]

everyone out there:

3. Surah Ale-Imran (The Family of Imran)​

94. Then after that, whosoever shall invent a lie against Allah, ... such shall indeed be the Zalimun (disbelievers).

95. Say (O Muhammad

): "Allah has spoken the truth; follow the religion of Ibrahim (Abraham) Hanifa (Islamic Monotheism, i.e. he used to worship Allah Alone), and he was not of Al-Mushrikun." (See V.2:105)

96. Verily, the first House (of worship) appointed for mankind was that at Bakkah (Makkah), full of blessing, and a guidance for Al-'Alamin (the mankind and jinns).
97. In it are manifest signs (for example), the Maqam (place) of Ibrahim (Abraham); whosoever enters it, he attains security. And Hajj (pilgrimage to Makkah) to the House (Ka'bah) is a duty that mankind owes to Allah, those who can afford the expenses (for one's conveyance, provision and residence); and whoever disbelieves [i.e. denies Hajj (pilgrimage to Makkah), then he is a disbeliever of Allah], then Allah stands not in need of any of the 'Alamin (mankind and jinns).
​

Surah Al-Baqarah (The Cow)​

140. Or say you that Ibrahim (Abraham), Isma'il (Ishmael), Ishaque (Isaac), Ya'qub (Jacob) and Al-Asbat [the twelve sons of Ya'qub (Jacob)] were Jews or Christians? Say, "Do you know better or does Allah (knows better...; that they all were Muslims)? And who is more unjust than he who conceals the testimony [i.e. to believe in Prophet Muhammad Peace be upon him when he comes, written in their Books. (See Verse 7:157)] he has from Allah? And Allah is not unaware of what you do."

141. That was a nation who has passed away. They shall receive the reward of what they earned, and you of what you earn. And you will not be asked of what they used to do.

142. The fools (pagans, hypocrites, and Jews) among the people will say, "What has turned them (Muslims) from their Qiblah [prayer direction (towards Jerusalem)] to which they were used to face in prayer." Say, (O Muhammad

) "To Allah belong both, east and the west. He guides whom He wills to a Straight Way."

143. Thus We have made you [true Muslims - real believers of Islamic Monotheism, true followers of Prophet Muhammad

and his Sunnah (legal ways)], a Wasat(just) (and the best) nation, that you be witnesses over mankind and the Messenger (Muhammad

) be a witness over you. And We made the Qiblah (prayer direction towards Jerusalem) which you used to face, only to test those who followed the Messenger (Muhammad

) from those who would turn on their heels (i.e. disobey the Messenger). Indeed it was great (heavy) except for those whom Allah guided. And Allah would never make your faith (prayers) to be lost (i.e. your prayers offered towards Jerusalem). Truly, Allah is full of kindness, the Most Merciful towards mankind.

144. Verily! We have seen the turning of your (Muhammad's

) face towards the heaven. Surely, We shall turn you to a Qiblah (prayer direction) that shall please you, so turn your face in the direction of Al-Masjid- al-Haram (at Makkah). And wheresoever you people are, turn your faces (in prayer) in that direction. Certainly, the people who were given the Scriptures (i.e. Jews and the Christians) know well that, that (your turning towards the direction of the Ka'bahat Makkah in prayers) is the truth from their Lord. And Allah is not unaware of what they do.

145. And even if you were to bring to the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) all the Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.), they would not follow your Qiblah (prayer direction), nor are you going to follow their Qiblah (prayer direction). And they will not follow each other's Qiblah (prayer direction). Verily, if you follow their desires after that which you have received of knowledge (from Allah), then indeed you will be one of the Zalimun (polytheists, wrong-doers, etc.).

146. Those to whom We gave the Scripture (Jews and Christians) recognise him (Muhammad

or the Ka'bahat Makkah) as they recongise their sons. But verily, a party of them conceal the truth while they know it - [i.e. the qualities of Muhammad

which are written in the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)].

147. (This is) the truth from your Lord. So be you not one of those who doubt.

148. For every nation there is a direction to which they face (in their prayers). So hasten towards all that is good. Wheresoever you may be, Allah will bring you together (on the Day of Resurrection). Truly, Allah is Able to do all things.

149. And from wheresoever you start forth (for prayers), turn your face in the direction of Al-Masjid-al-Haram (at Makkah), that is indeed the truth from your Lord. And Allah is not unaware of what you do.

150. And from wheresoever you start forth (for prayers), turn your face in the direction of Al-Masjid-al-Haram (at Makkah), and wheresoever you are, turn your faces towards, it (when you pray) so that men may have no argument against you except those of them that are wrong-doers, so fear them not, but fear Me! - And so that I may complete My Blessings on you and that you may be guided.


​

@al-Hasani , and others, please point any wrong in my statement below:

Any Muslim with basic Islamic know how, would know that 'Kaaba' was reconstructed (build up of walls) by prophet Ibrahim (Abraham in Bible) & prophet Ismail, hence Mecca/Kaaba has been Qibla even in religions before Islam.

Let there be no confusion that 'Kaaba' was the first Qibla not second!

Obviously, (before) birth of prophet Mohammad (pbuh) for both Jews and Isais, Qibla direction had become Jerusalem......
we also know, that differences among both (nations) grew (by the passage of time) and people went to extremism. One example; Jesus became god for one nationa and other one does not recognize him at all, and even used (citation) abusive words for the holy prophet Isa (pbuh)!

However, since prophet Mohammad (pbuh) prayed in direction Jerusalem for about 16 months, in the beginning of Islam (order of Allah.. true logic known to Allah), while living in Medina and than Allah ordered him to change Qibla. Therefore technically, Jerusalem was Qibla for a brief period, while before and after that brief period Qibla was 'Kaba' and will remain Qibla for Muslims, till the end.

In a way, when we count from the advent of Islam, yes.... initially Qibla (prayer direction) was the holy lands of Jerusalem and generally is known as Qibla awwal... no harm and correct in one sense.​

 

[BATMAN]

Yes I meaned Wahabi cult but saudis have had many actions even they wanted to wreck Prophet(Sawas) Shrine and did not let rebuild Imams(Saa)Shrines near Prophet shrine.

Saudi Arabia is there since last 100 years, and pilgrims had been visiting all the time. hence your allegations are absurd, if it was a technical issue, you had all the years to plead your case but not now. On the contrary, Saudi govt. has fortified the grave of prophet Mohammad and what more, you never know!

There has been regular constructions, mainly due to pilgrims accommodation and convenience reasons, hence situation changes on ground regularly. What you see today was very different, only 10 years ago.

In regard to general shrines issue, i can only imagine, if any shia being able to identify the graves of sahaba, there will be big trouble following.
So in a way it is much better, to not build any identification marks on historic graves, due to conflicting history.

I personally believe, it is of no use to build extravagant graves, i would rather give the spare money to alive poor. I believe 100xn% that Allah would reward me more in later case!

 

[AhsanAmin]

AhsanAmin said: ↑
I think some of these problems emerge because of deepening Shia-Sunni divide between the Muslims. When I was a child, I remember some Shia friends prayed in the mosque next to my school a practice that continues to decrease now. When I went to Tehran in 2005, I prayed in Tehran University mosque on two Fridays and I fondly remember that even today. One of my liveliest memories is when somebody in Tehran mosque sprayed perfume on me. The question that truly irked me there when some Iranians asked me,"Are you Shia?" knowing I was a Sunni.
Saudis have played a great role in increasing this divide. Even in Pakistan, some Saudi money is instrumental in killing of Shias. There were reports recently that Saudis went to extreme limits of cooperating with Israel to work out a joint strategy to prolong sanctions on Iran.



Don't you know true muslims go to Pakistan embassy for Friday prayer, why you didn't went there

Pakistani Embassy officials were not ready to see me. Regardless of what I earlier said which I believe in, since you asked the question, I also went to Vatican Embassy in Tehran. A Pakistani Muslim in Iran going to Vatican Embassy should tell us all where everybody stands.
I was not much skeptic of what people say and rarely tried to find the actual reality behind the veneer of humanity and kindness they like to affect. Vatican had the impression of preaching humanity in earnest so I thought they would be sympathetic to me on human grounds. Iran had the impression of possibly being sympathetic to a Muslim being wronged due to his religion. But when powerful nations use their right to free bribes among other freedoms, you are only on your own and that is one reason I believe in God.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

yea rite

 

[Resurrection5782]

shrines are not part of Islamic faith , this is a persian practise has nothing to do with Islam

I am happy to see him declare this , Just waiting when the shia announce that Ali is their true god.

This is weakness of u wahabi arabs that use infidelity against reall Islam.

 

[Developereo]

am a fan of al maliki... what do you think of his suggestion? agree or no agree .. or neutral.

Let me repeat what I wrote here: The news of a "new" Qiblah of prayer by Maliki is a LIE. | Page 3

People are jumping to conclusions.

Qibla simply means a beacon (of wisdom and righteousness).

Kaaba is the ultimate beacon for all Muslims.

What Mailiki was saying is that Imam Hussain's example of standing firm in the face of tyranny is a lesson always to be remembered.

In that sense, Karbala is also a beacon: a beacon of that ultimate commitment to justice and self-sacrifice. Nowhere is there any suggestion that Karbala should replace Kaaba.

We Shias remember and honor Imam Hussain's sacrifice five times a day in addition to praying to Allah and affirming his prophet Muhammad (pbuh).

If others don't want to do so, that's fine.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Let me repeat what I wrote here: The news of a "new" Qiblah of prayer by Maliki is a LIE. | Page 3

People are jumping to conclusions.

Qibla simply means a beacon (of wisdom and righteousness).

What Mailiki was saying is that Imam Hussain's example of standing firm in the face of tyranny is a lesson always to be remembered.
We Shias remember and honor Imam Hussain's sacrifice five times a day in addition to praying to Allah and affirming his prophet Muhammad (pbuh).

Sadly some Muslims with low attention span and a lot of sectarian hatred will never bother to see the delicacies and richness of Arabic language... I get what you are saying I have listened to his speech as well but at his position the words have to be carefully chosen because his country is reeling with Al Qaeda terrorism.

there is an Urdu phrase

میاں اپنا قبلہ درست کرو

it doesnt mean that the speaker is suggesting his addressee as a Mushrik but merely telling him that he is misguided on something.

 

[Developereo]

Sat his position the words have to be carefully chosen

It was an unfortunate lapse of judgement on his part.

It also shows the division within the Muslim world where people will jump at anything to beat their chest and denounce the others.

This disease of "we are the true Muslims" has truly gone viral in the Muslim world.