Shahzaz ud din
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Jun 12, 2017
- Messages
- 7,877
- Reaction score
- 14
- Country
- Location
They practically ask everyone making military hardware to come. Just that the Indians over-react with a mere ordinary invitation letter.[/QUOTE]
Malaysia wants India to send LCA-Tejas to the Country for Evaluations
- Thread starter INDIAPOSITIVE
- Start date
randomradio
BANNED
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2016
- Messages
- 6,974
- Reaction score
- -17
- Country
- Location
You don't have problem with using intel chips manufactured in Israel.
Designed and manufactured.
It's up to them if they want to participate. If they do, we will be looking at a parking spot right beside them though.
Since it's important to the Malaysians from a procurement PoV, I hope they put all the light MRCA contenders right beside each other.
halupridol
BANNED
- Joined
- Nov 30, 2013
- Messages
- 6,153
- Reaction score
- -32
- Country
- Location
Just stop selling this snake oil.
Mk1 hasnt got foc yet,,,u want to tell me that a dpsu will miss the opportunity to brag on media n have a circus fest if they actually achieved foc,,,,mehh.
As of now hal is "pushing" for foc mid march,,,which probably they will fail to achieve,,as usual.
Coming to mk1a,,,,its atleast 5yrs(probably even more)away from induction,,,,according to a source,,dpsu's still demanding for relaxation of requirements for mk1a.
Mk2 is on paper.
halupridol
BANNED
- Joined
- Nov 30, 2013
- Messages
- 6,153
- Reaction score
- -32
- Country
- Location
By Ajai Shukla
HAL Bengaluru
13th Jan 19
For ten months now, Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd’s (HAL’s) proposal to manufacture 83 Tejas Mark 1A fighters, which the ministry of defence (MoD) green-lighted in December 2017, has been pending with the Indian Air Force (IAF).
With no clearance forthcoming from the IAF’s “technical evaluation committee” (TEC), the project remains in limbo. HAL’s commercial bid remains unopened and an actual production order, at a price to be fixed by a “cost negotiating committee”, is nowhere in sight.
This Tejas Mark 1A order, worth Rs 50,000 crore in the estimation of Defence Minister Nirmala Sitharaman, constitutes half the orders worth Rs 100,000 crore that she told Parliament had been given to HAL, and then later clarified were “in the pipeline”.
The pipeline should have a clearly defined length. The Defence Procurement Procedure of 2016 (DPP-2016) requires the TEC to complete its evaluation in 10 weeks. It has already been with the IAF for 10 months.
Contacted for comments, the IAF has not responded.
HAL chairman, R Madhavan, says the order is vital for smooth production. This year, HAL’s Tejas integration line will deliver eight fighters, and will also ramp up production to 16 fighters per year. However, there are only 20 more Tejas Mark 1 fighters on order. That means, without the order for 83 Tejas Mark 1A aircraft, the line will grind to a halt in 2020.
For now, HAL’s only hope is that prospective foreign customers, such as Malaysia, place orders for the Tejas, which would keep its production line going. As Business Standardreported last Tuesday, the Royal Malaysian Air Force could buy up to 30 Tejas Mark 1 fighters.
“We cannot afford Tejas production coming to a stop. Stop-and-start production has financial costs, and disrupts the supply chain. And delay raises labour costs and foreign exchange appreciation,” says Madhavan.
The IAF counters that HAL is still to deliver two orders it has received for 20 fighters each. But, in fact, the order is only for 32 fighters, not 40. The remaining eight fighters are the twin-seat trainer variant, for which the IAF is still to issue the “air staff requirements” (ASRs) – or the specifications to which they must be built.
This delay is happening because, in 2016, the IAF suddenly demanded that its twin-seat trainers must also have mid-air-refuelling capability. This capability had earlier been decided for only the single-seat fighter, but was not required in the twin-seat trainers. The IAF’s change of mind involves significant re-engineering, since the long, drooping nose of the twin-seater presents additional challenges.
HAL can start this development only when the IAF issues the ASRs for mid-air-refuelling for the twin-seat variant. Thereafter, the development would take at least two years. Only then can the twin-seat Tejas – eight trainers from the first order of 40 aircraft and 10 from the 83 Mark 1A order – enter production.
Until then, only two Tejas trainers exist – prototypes built years ago. With no twin-seat trainers being built, there are serious problems in training Tejas pilots. Since the existing two twin-seaters are needed for the flight-test programme, rookie Tejas pilots must rely on mainly simulator training, rather than real flying.
In the Tejas assembly hangar, Business Standardsaw two spanking new Tejas fighters ready for delivery. Another two were getting their final touches. When those are delivered by March 31, HAL will have – for the first time – achieved the production milestone of eight fighters per year.
The IAF charges HAL with having taken too long to reach this level of production. But the HAL chief ascribes that to the IAF constantly shifting goalposts.
“Much of the delay is due to changing Tejas specifications. Tejas production was cleared in 2013. But, from that time till today, there have been over 300 changes to the fighter. We need to freeze a single standard for the fighter,” points out Madhavan.
Endemic delays in the Tejas programme – whether due to developmental delay by the Defence R&D Organisation, production delay by HAL or the absence of oversight and ownership by the IAF – have had severe financial repercussions.
In 2006, the contract for the first 20 Tejas Mark 1 was concluded at a price of Rs 106 crore per fighter. In 2015, when production finally got under way, HAL submitted a request asking for it to be increased to Rs 194 crore. The second batch of 20 fighters will likely top Rs 200 crore apiece. And the 83 Tejas Mark 1A, with significant (and expensive) capability enhancements demanded by the IAF – including advanced radar, electronic warfare systems and better maintainability – will likely cost over Rs 400 crore per fighter.
“Ultimately, the blame lies with the air force, which has treated the Tejas project like a step-child. The Tejas has grown in capability, but the IAF has preferred relying on foreign fighters like the Rafale. Now, if orders for the Tejas Mark 1A are not placed early, its cost will rise, giving the IAF yet another reason to oppose it,” says Bharat Karnad of the Centre for Policy Research.
http://ajaishukla.blogspot.com/2019/01/tejas-production-disrupted-as-air-force.html?m=1
I feel there is no point betting on tejas.
Mk1a,,,which was intended to be a poor mans kfir/mirage wud cost 400 cr a piece.
if one leaves aside the questionable quality,capability n numerous delays of lca as a product,,even on price front,,its not worthy of mass production.
Govt. shud continue to provide funds so that our dpsu's can go on developing fighters n gobbling chai biskut.R&D continues n jawahar rozgar yojna(dpsu) lives.
BUT delink these programs from defence procurement perspective.
HAL Bengaluru
13th Jan 19
For ten months now, Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd’s (HAL’s) proposal to manufacture 83 Tejas Mark 1A fighters, which the ministry of defence (MoD) green-lighted in December 2017, has been pending with the Indian Air Force (IAF).
With no clearance forthcoming from the IAF’s “technical evaluation committee” (TEC), the project remains in limbo. HAL’s commercial bid remains unopened and an actual production order, at a price to be fixed by a “cost negotiating committee”, is nowhere in sight.
This Tejas Mark 1A order, worth Rs 50,000 crore in the estimation of Defence Minister Nirmala Sitharaman, constitutes half the orders worth Rs 100,000 crore that she told Parliament had been given to HAL, and then later clarified were “in the pipeline”.
The pipeline should have a clearly defined length. The Defence Procurement Procedure of 2016 (DPP-2016) requires the TEC to complete its evaluation in 10 weeks. It has already been with the IAF for 10 months.
Contacted for comments, the IAF has not responded.
HAL chairman, R Madhavan, says the order is vital for smooth production. This year, HAL’s Tejas integration line will deliver eight fighters, and will also ramp up production to 16 fighters per year. However, there are only 20 more Tejas Mark 1 fighters on order. That means, without the order for 83 Tejas Mark 1A aircraft, the line will grind to a halt in 2020.
For now, HAL’s only hope is that prospective foreign customers, such as Malaysia, place orders for the Tejas, which would keep its production line going. As Business Standardreported last Tuesday, the Royal Malaysian Air Force could buy up to 30 Tejas Mark 1 fighters.
“We cannot afford Tejas production coming to a stop. Stop-and-start production has financial costs, and disrupts the supply chain. And delay raises labour costs and foreign exchange appreciation,” says Madhavan.
The IAF counters that HAL is still to deliver two orders it has received for 20 fighters each. But, in fact, the order is only for 32 fighters, not 40. The remaining eight fighters are the twin-seat trainer variant, for which the IAF is still to issue the “air staff requirements” (ASRs) – or the specifications to which they must be built.
This delay is happening because, in 2016, the IAF suddenly demanded that its twin-seat trainers must also have mid-air-refuelling capability. This capability had earlier been decided for only the single-seat fighter, but was not required in the twin-seat trainers. The IAF’s change of mind involves significant re-engineering, since the long, drooping nose of the twin-seater presents additional challenges.
HAL can start this development only when the IAF issues the ASRs for mid-air-refuelling for the twin-seat variant. Thereafter, the development would take at least two years. Only then can the twin-seat Tejas – eight trainers from the first order of 40 aircraft and 10 from the 83 Mark 1A order – enter production.
Until then, only two Tejas trainers exist – prototypes built years ago. With no twin-seat trainers being built, there are serious problems in training Tejas pilots. Since the existing two twin-seaters are needed for the flight-test programme, rookie Tejas pilots must rely on mainly simulator training, rather than real flying.
In the Tejas assembly hangar, Business Standardsaw two spanking new Tejas fighters ready for delivery. Another two were getting their final touches. When those are delivered by March 31, HAL will have – for the first time – achieved the production milestone of eight fighters per year.
The IAF charges HAL with having taken too long to reach this level of production. But the HAL chief ascribes that to the IAF constantly shifting goalposts.
“Much of the delay is due to changing Tejas specifications. Tejas production was cleared in 2013. But, from that time till today, there have been over 300 changes to the fighter. We need to freeze a single standard for the fighter,” points out Madhavan.
Endemic delays in the Tejas programme – whether due to developmental delay by the Defence R&D Organisation, production delay by HAL or the absence of oversight and ownership by the IAF – have had severe financial repercussions.
In 2006, the contract for the first 20 Tejas Mark 1 was concluded at a price of Rs 106 crore per fighter. In 2015, when production finally got under way, HAL submitted a request asking for it to be increased to Rs 194 crore. The second batch of 20 fighters will likely top Rs 200 crore apiece. And the 83 Tejas Mark 1A, with significant (and expensive) capability enhancements demanded by the IAF – including advanced radar, electronic warfare systems and better maintainability – will likely cost over Rs 400 crore per fighter.
“Ultimately, the blame lies with the air force, which has treated the Tejas project like a step-child. The Tejas has grown in capability, but the IAF has preferred relying on foreign fighters like the Rafale. Now, if orders for the Tejas Mark 1A are not placed early, its cost will rise, giving the IAF yet another reason to oppose it,” says Bharat Karnad of the Centre for Policy Research.
http://ajaishukla.blogspot.com/2019/01/tejas-production-disrupted-as-air-force.html?m=1
I feel there is no point betting on tejas.
Mk1a,,,which was intended to be a poor mans kfir/mirage wud cost 400 cr a piece.
if one leaves aside the questionable quality,capability n numerous delays of lca as a product,,even on price front,,its not worthy of mass production.
Govt. shud continue to provide funds so that our dpsu's can go on developing fighters n gobbling chai biskut.R&D continues n jawahar rozgar yojna(dpsu) lives.
BUT delink these programs from defence procurement perspective.
randomradio
BANNED
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2016
- Messages
- 6,974
- Reaction score
- -17
- Country
- Location
Production has been cleared for FOC versions.
That 400Cr apiece is not unit price.
halupridol
BANNED
- Joined
- Nov 30, 2013
- Messages
- 6,153
- Reaction score
- -32
- Country
- Location
Production has been cleared for foc version tejas without actual achievment of foc,,,rrright,r u even sure what u r talking about??
Or is that similar to what u n othr dpsu bhakts have been peddling about "83 confirmed mk1a" n how they will be delivered in 2021-22,,,,when actually no firm orders for any mk1a has been placed yet,let alone any concrete work on its development.
I know 400cr is not unit price coz mk1a doesn't exist.its an estimate by shukla(btw which is more believable that likes of LSA n what not)
randomradio
BANNED
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2016
- Messages
- 6,974
- Reaction score
- -17
- Country
- Location
4 FOC jets are already in assembly. The preliminary FOC drawings were transferred in July last year, followed by FOC drawings in December. The full squadron will be delivered by mid 2020. The first jet is expected to fly at the end of this year, October.
The Mk1A production process has also begun. A tender was issued for the first batch of jets, which means it will enter assembly in the second half of 2020.
Mk1A has already been configured, so it's obvious the price came from HAL. The contract was almost finalised at 364Cr for each jet, and is now being renegotiated to lower it.
Looks like you've been on PDF for too long.
@MilSpec Look, this guy is calling me a DPSU bhakt.
MilSpec
ELITE MEMBER
- Joined
- Feb 19, 2011
- Messages
- 12,931
- Reaction score
- 38
- Country
- Location
It comes full circle... just embrace the dark side, will get you wada sambar and dosa at HAL canteen this time when in India.4 FOC jets are already in assembly. The preliminary FOC drawings were transferred in July last year, followed by FOC drawings in December. The full squadron will be delivered by mid 2020. The first jet is expected to fly at the end of this year, October.
The Mk1A production process has also begun. A tender was issued for the first batch of jets, which means it will enter assembly in the second half of 2020.
Mk1A has already been configured, so it's obvious the price came from HAL. The contract was almost finalised at 364Cr for each jet, and is now being renegotiated to lower it.
Looks like you've been on PDF for too long.
@MilSpec Look, this guy is calling me a DPSU bhakt.
MimophantSlayer
FULL MEMBER
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2012
- Messages
- 1,281
- Reaction score
- -4
- Country
- Location
LOL, you know you've struck the right nerve when a pakistani pdfian regurgitates adhominem after ad hominem.
Oh yeah, they were sooooo happy being thrown out of their homes and becoming refugees in "their own country", having to live in destitution in richer cities of pakistan.
Just like how they were happy during the Pashtun Long March, clearly it was Indians that made pakistan keep the FCR for so long after the British left the subcontinent.
They still suffer from the aftershocks like when they were getting killed by unexhumed mines placed by PA but pakistani jingos still have the temerity to pat themselsves on the back for fixing what you yourselves destroyed in the first place.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-27980938
https://tribune.com.pk/story/751875/in-the-lurch-idps-from-eidak-face-food-water-shortage/
https://tribune.com.pk/story/926515...s-protest-hostile-attitude-of-police-customs/
https://tribune.com.pk/story/739351...eaths-pour-in-as-tribesmen-threaten-protests/
https://www.sundayguardianlive.com/world/8168-all-pashtuns-want-freedom-pak
https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/pakistan-pashtuns-march-justice-180224114356113.html
https://www.dawn.com/news/1215686
How rosy their lives are now.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018...akistan-south-waziristan-180205091656542.html
https://www.dawn.com/news/1426689/pashteen-vows-to-continue-struggle-for-pakhtun-rights
https://www.pajhwok.com/en/2018/05/02/75pc-newly-built-schools-need-repair-survey-finds
https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/indep...90111140428304.html?__twitter_impression=true
What pakistan is an example of is a nation that hosts prolific terrorists like Osama bin Laden, fights other countries wars, uses terrorists as a proxy force against its neighbours as it itself has no chance of actually achieving something through its own military and then suffers through the same terrorism that it sought to unleash on others.
Oh yawn not this nonsense again.
Alright let's give you the benefit of the doubt, pakistani soldiers were only some half............ OF NINETY THREE THOUSAND.
The point is they were pAKISTANIS and they were under OUR MERCY. That is something no matter how much you try to twist will never be.
Ahhh, trying to salvage some izzat, too bad, a turd remains a turd regardless of how much chocolate syrup you put on it, so no, your leaders gained nothing and pakistan gained nothing from the 71 war.
You lost nigh half your territory, population, economy, your politicians and military leaders fell like bowling pins post 1971 and everything else in between.
Pakistan was taken from its name; a chunk of your country which is now growing faster than pakistan, is healthier than pakistan and will overtake the same in a few years and you say they got something from 71.
Aaah diverting from the topic with an epic strawman.
Truth after all is difficult to swallow for people who have always been told lies.
The only reason you have any peaks is because they were mostly uncontested,. And the only reason they were uncontested is because your PM had to beg your sugar daddy Americans to stop us from punishing you, that is the only reason why we stopped at the gates.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/1989886.stm
Of course PAF was scared.
PAF with its measly no bvr F-16s were no match for IAF's BVRed Mig-29s.
This is but fact that PAF had no gall to even defend PA soldiers in a war Pakistan initiated a few kilometers from the LOC.
Why should we conduct air raids? We aren't a war mongering nation that gets into wars willy nilly and then gets defeated.
Also, get your chronology straight, there was not a single Su-30s flying in IAF colours during Kargil.
Big whoop, shot down from the GROUND.
We killed multiple times the pakistanis in air strikes for those few losses.
One more reason why PAF was scared to death by the IAF.
The Atlantic incident that dispatched 16 pakistani military personnel is yet another example of why PAF had no confidence to retaliate against the IAF when IAF killed so many Pakistanis, officers included in peacetime.
Why didn't the PAF retaliate then when clearly according to you we shot down your plane which was in your territory at that time?
We’d much rather struggle to create indigenous equipment now and later become self-sufficient than paint green old russo designed chinese made planes now and be always dependent sugar daddies.
We already have graduated from sticker screwdrivergiri.
Look at Su-30MKI, HAL makes Al-31FP engines in house and also we have several Indian components in the MKI, where are your Pakistani indigenous equipment in JF-17?
Oh that’s right you have none.
Pakistan? 5th gen?
This $hit is hilarious right here.
What fighter grade wind tunnel facilitates are there in pakistan? How many new aircrafts have been tested in these facilities?
You got any rcs test facilities? Any IR test facilities for the same?
Have your aircraft design facilities ever designed a whole new fighter aircraft from the ground up?
What indigenous CAD softwares was pakistan able to develop?
What CFD tech were you lot able to make because of the JF-17?
Was pakistan able to develop quadruplex fly by wire after so many years post the induction of the JF-17?
What kind of composite research is going on in pakistan that is the direct cause of the JF-17?
Any fighter grade turbine research organization in pak?
Any radar R&D organization in pak that can develop AESA radars?
First answers these questions then talk about 5th gen.
We all know if Pakistan gets a 5th gen fighter aircraft i.e. if PAF ever has the money to handle a single engine 5th gen fighter forget a twin engined one, it’ll be exactly like the JF-17, a low grade less advanced fighter aircraft from china that the PLAAF themselves don’t use.
Whereas your AZM is barely even on the drawing board, we have already frozen our 5th gen design for our AMCA, developed IR and radar absorbent materials for the same, floated EOI to various private companies for its prototypes, etc.
Enjoy.
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/adva...-amca-development-updates-discussions.298161/
On the contrary.
Just coz Dassault “helped” doesn’t mean they did all of the work, they were only consultants. And similarly, we used American facilities and American themselves didn’t do all the work for us.
But more importantly, after the nuclear tests all of ADA’s work on the Tejas in the US was withheld, taken from our scientists and they were sent back to India, forcing them to start the process all over again, made facilities, softwares that can now be used to make new planes, which we did and came up with the current Tejas which is now inducted and operational.
Whereas you can’t even say that Pakistanis had any hand in designing the JF-17.
Keep crying coz we all know you lot are just envious of the fact that Pakistan neither has the capability nor the money to even attempt something like the Tejas.
Pakistani denial really is ugly.
Go ahead, learn how much of Tejas is made in India.
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/hal-tejas-updates-news-discussions-thread-2.351401/
Pakistan "co-producting" anything on the JF-17 will look like shriveled up inedible peanuts.
And how much of the RUSSIAN engine do you Pakistanis make in the JF-17?
ALso by your rhetoric the Al-31 engines your current sugar daddy uses on board their J-10s, J-11s and Su-30s are also crap.
The truth is PAC can’t hope to match HAL.
Fully Indian components in MKI:
http://hal-india.co.in/Products/M__54
Whereas PAC doesn't even make the complete airframe for JF-17 even though it is a "joint venture" .
Clearly you remember imaginary excrement of people living 100s of kilometres away from you but forget the REAL OCCURRENCE of how PAF showed such bravery when they withdrew the JF-17s at the last minute in Bahrain when HAL came at the very end of the BIAS 2016 closing date and decided to participate with the Tejas.
Oh yawn, I have been hearing of your Blk3s since I joined pdf but it is yet to appear, maybe talk about it after it arrives(if ever), as you lot have a habit of over promising and under delivering.
Oh yeah, they were sooooo happy being thrown out of their homes and becoming refugees in "their own country", having to live in destitution in richer cities of pakistan.
Just like how they were happy during the Pashtun Long March, clearly it was Indians that made pakistan keep the FCR for so long after the British left the subcontinent.
They still suffer from the aftershocks like when they were getting killed by unexhumed mines placed by PA but pakistani jingos still have the temerity to pat themselsves on the back for fixing what you yourselves destroyed in the first place.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-27980938
https://tribune.com.pk/story/751875/in-the-lurch-idps-from-eidak-face-food-water-shortage/
https://tribune.com.pk/story/926515...s-protest-hostile-attitude-of-police-customs/
https://tribune.com.pk/story/739351...eaths-pour-in-as-tribesmen-threaten-protests/
https://www.sundayguardianlive.com/world/8168-all-pashtuns-want-freedom-pak
https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/pakistan-pashtuns-march-justice-180224114356113.html
https://www.dawn.com/news/1215686
How rosy their lives are now.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018...akistan-south-waziristan-180205091656542.html
https://www.dawn.com/news/1426689/pashteen-vows-to-continue-struggle-for-pakhtun-rights
https://www.pajhwok.com/en/2018/05/02/75pc-newly-built-schools-need-repair-survey-finds
https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/indep...90111140428304.html?__twitter_impression=true
What pakistan is an example of is a nation that hosts prolific terrorists like Osama bin Laden, fights other countries wars, uses terrorists as a proxy force against its neighbours as it itself has no chance of actually achieving something through its own military and then suffers through the same terrorism that it sought to unleash on others.
Oh yawn not this nonsense again.
Alright let's give you the benefit of the doubt, pakistani soldiers were only some half............ OF NINETY THREE THOUSAND.
The point is they were pAKISTANIS and they were under OUR MERCY. That is something no matter how much you try to twist will never be.
I say nonexistent because our own leaders, for their own selfish motives set the entire debacle up failure just so that they both can have their rule in respective countries. and yes, they just used you and then tossed you like used tissue. they got what they deserved though as did your old hag.
Ahhh, trying to salvage some izzat, too bad, a turd remains a turd regardless of how much chocolate syrup you put on it, so no, your leaders gained nothing and pakistan gained nothing from the 71 war.
You lost nigh half your territory, population, economy, your politicians and military leaders fell like bowling pins post 1971 and everything else in between.
Pakistan was taken from its name; a chunk of your country which is now growing faster than pakistan, is healthier than pakistan and will overtake the same in a few years and you say they got something from 71.
Aaah diverting from the topic with an epic strawman.
Truth after all is difficult to swallow for people who have always been told lies.
The only reason you have any peaks is because they were mostly uncontested,
. And the only reason they were uncontested is because your PM had to beg your sugar daddy Americans to stop us from punishing you, that is the only reason why we stopped at the gates.http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/1989886.stm
Of course PAF was scared.
PAF with its measly no bvr F-16s were no match for IAF's BVRed Mig-29s.
This is but fact that PAF had no gall to even defend PA soldiers in a war Pakistan initiated a few kilometers from the LOC.
Why should we conduct air raids? We aren't a war mongering nation that gets into wars willy nilly and then gets defeated.
Also, get your chronology straight, there was not a single Su-30s flying in IAF colours during Kargil.
Big whoop, shot down from the GROUND.
We killed multiple times the pakistanis in air strikes for those few losses.
One more reason why PAF was scared to death by the IAF.
The Atlantic incident that dispatched 16 pakistani military personnel is yet another example of why PAF had no confidence to retaliate against the IAF when IAF killed so many Pakistanis, officers included in peacetime.
Why didn't the PAF retaliate then when clearly according to you we shot down your plane which was in your territory at that time?
while super duper dodo I mean drdo is trying pull your tejas samosa stuck inside modi waves!enjoy your mad backwards import and install so called tikinalijy!
We’d much rather struggle to create indigenous equipment now and later become self-sufficient than paint green old russo designed chinese made planes now and be always dependent sugar daddies.
We already have graduated from sticker screwdrivergiri.
Look at Su-30MKI, HAL makes Al-31FP engines in house and also we have several Indian components in the MKI, where are your Pakistani indigenous equipment in JF-17?
Oh that’s right you have none.
Pakistan? 5th gen?
This $hit is hilarious right here.
What fighter grade wind tunnel facilitates are there in pakistan? How many new aircrafts have been tested in these facilities?
You got any rcs test facilities? Any IR test facilities for the same?
Have your aircraft design facilities ever designed a whole new fighter aircraft from the ground up?
What indigenous CAD softwares was pakistan able to develop?
What CFD tech were you lot able to make because of the JF-17?
Was pakistan able to develop quadruplex fly by wire after so many years post the induction of the JF-17?
What kind of composite research is going on in pakistan that is the direct cause of the JF-17?
Any fighter grade turbine research organization in pak?
Any radar R&D organization in pak that can develop AESA radars?
First answers these questions then talk about 5th gen.
We all know if Pakistan gets a 5th gen fighter aircraft i.e. if PAF ever has the money to handle a single engine 5th gen fighter forget a twin engined one, it’ll be exactly like the JF-17, a low grade less advanced fighter aircraft from china that the PLAAF themselves don’t use.
Whereas your AZM is barely even on the drawing board, we have already frozen our 5th gen design for our AMCA, developed IR and radar absorbent materials for the same, floated EOI to various private companies for its prototypes, etc.
Enjoy.
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/adva...-amca-development-updates-discussions.298161/
On the contrary.
Just coz Dassault “helped” doesn’t mean they did all of the work, they were only consultants. And similarly, we used American facilities and American themselves didn’t do all the work for us.
But more importantly, after the nuclear tests all of ADA’s work on the Tejas in the US was withheld, taken from our scientists and they were sent back to India, forcing them to start the process all over again, made facilities, softwares that can now be used to make new planes, which we did and came up with the current Tejas which is now inducted and operational.
Whereas you can’t even say that Pakistanis had any hand in designing the JF-17.
Keep crying coz we all know you lot are just envious of the fact that Pakistan neither has the capability nor the money to even attempt something like the Tejas.
the only sub system on the tejas that is indian aside from the paint is the pilot!
Pakistani denial really is ugly.
Go ahead, learn how much of Tejas is made in India.
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/hal-tejas-updates-news-discussions-thread-2.351401/
Pakistan "co-producting" anything on the JF-17 will look like shriveled up inedible peanuts.
some indiginization that even gearbox and the fan blades of the su30 have to imported from Russia that sells you crap ones from its used engines! good luck with that sort of indiginization!
And how much of the RUSSIAN engine do you Pakistanis make in the JF-17?
ALso by your rhetoric the Al-31 engines your current sugar daddy uses on board their J-10s, J-11s and Su-30s are also crap.
The truth is PAC can’t hope to match HAL.
Fully Indian components in MKI:
- Mission Computer cum Display Processor – MC-486 and DP-30MK (Defence Avionics Research Establishment – DARE)
- Radar Computer – RC1 and RC2 (DARE)
- Tarang Mk2 Radar Warning Receiver (RWR) + High Accuracy Direction Finding Module (HADF) (DARE
- IFF-1410A – Identification Friend or Foe (IFF)
- Integrated Communication suite INCOM 1210A (HAL)
- Radar Altimeter – RAM-1701 (HAL)
- Programmable Signal Processor (PSP) – (LRDE)
- Multi Function Displays (MFD) – Samtel/DARE
http://hal-india.co.in/Products/M__54
Whereas PAC doesn't even make the complete airframe for JF-17 even though it is a "joint venture" .
Clearly you remember imaginary excrement of people living 100s of kilometres away from you but forget the REAL OCCURRENCE of how PAF showed such bravery when they withdrew the JF-17s at the last minute in Bahrain when HAL came at the very end of the BIAS 2016 closing date and decided to participate with the Tejas.
When the blk3 takes to the their, you personally may end up blowing a brick outta your bunghole. And I for one look forward to your randi rona and editorials of sheer denial. that'll be some entertaining reading from butthurt armchair generals like you!
Oh yawn, I have been hearing of your Blk3s since I joined pdf but it is yet to appear, maybe talk about it after it arrives(if ever), as you lot have a habit of over promising and under delivering.
Last edited:
Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen
BANNED
- Joined
- Oct 15, 2017
- Messages
- 28,401
- Reaction score
- -82
- Country
- Location
Tejas uses Israel radar. So there goes Malaysia order.
randomradio
BANNED
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2016
- Messages
- 6,974
- Reaction score
- -17
- Country
- Location
There are ways to get around that.
Sheena1980
BANNED
- Joined
- Dec 7, 2018
- Messages
- 143
- Reaction score
- -4
- Country
- Location
Has Jan 9th, (Page 3)Post # 36 prediction come true as anticipated
Also read Post # 66 on Page 5. Pakistan behaving as predicted - nothing new
Also read Post # 66 on Page 5. Pakistan behaving as predicted - nothing new
Last edited:
kris
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Dec 3, 2016
- Messages
- 2,565
- Reaction score
- -12
- Country
- Location
Retrospectively thinking you are true to an extent..
I always had a doubt in mind, why would Malaysia buy a cheap fighter when they have buying capacity
Thorough Pro
ELITE MEMBER
- Joined
- Aug 23, 2008
- Messages
- 13,232
- Reaction score
- -21
- Country
- Location
So Pakistan marketing JF17 makes sense, as PAF itself is the largest user of the plane, the PAF leadership has on number of occasions shown it's confidence in the Platform and what's more, used it in recent skirmishes against top of the line Indian air superiority fighters and shot them down.
On the other hand Indians are marketing Tejas to Malaysia while they themselves have not yet inducted it in active service. Their air force and Navy both have openly and repeatedly rejected the platform, has never participated in any air battles. Both Indian PM and IAF chief attributed the recent spanking of IAF at the hands of JF17 to the lack of Rafales. No one ever mentioned lack of Tejas.
Just one question from the buyer and Tejas will be floored.
LOL ….
Tejas does not have the credentials to go against Thunders.
Thunders just thrashed your top of the line SU30MKI's with a MASSIVE BARS PESA that can detect a mosquito 5000 miles away and shoot it down with its ultra long range 12 dozen BVR missiles and can dance around it using thrust vectoring twin engines yada yada yada
IAF said, if they had RAFELS..... no one said anything about Tejas, you take Malaysians for a Indians?
On the other hand Indians are marketing Tejas to Malaysia while they themselves have not yet inducted it in active service. Their air force and Navy both have openly and repeatedly rejected the platform, has never participated in any air battles. Both Indian PM and IAF chief attributed the recent spanking of IAF at the hands of JF17 to the lack of Rafales. No one ever mentioned lack of Tejas.
Just one question from the buyer and Tejas will be floored.
LOL ….
Tejas does not have the credentials to go against Thunders.
Thunders just thrashed your top of the line SU30MKI's with a MASSIVE BARS PESA that can detect a mosquito 5000 miles away and shoot it down with its ultra long range 12 dozen BVR missiles and can dance around it using thrust vectoring twin engines yada yada yada
IAF said, if they had RAFELS..... no one said anything about Tejas, you take Malaysians for a Indians?
alimobin memon
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Oct 15, 2009
- Messages
- 2,504
- Reaction score
- 2
- Country
- Location
I feel sorry for you month later of your post and everything went into hell hole.LOL, you know you've struck the right nerve when a pakistani pdfian regurgitates adhominem after ad hominem.
Oh yeah, they were sooooo happy being thrown out of their homes and becoming refugees in "their own country", having to live in destitution in richer cities of pakistan.
Just like how they were happy during the Pashtun Long March, clearly it was Indians that made pakistan keep the FCR for so long after the British left the subcontinent.
They still suffer from the aftershocks like when they were getting killed by unexhumed mines placed by PA but pakistani jingos still have the temerity to pat themselsves on the back for fixing what you yourselves destroyed in the first place.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-27980938
https://tribune.com.pk/story/751875/in-the-lurch-idps-from-eidak-face-food-water-shortage/
https://tribune.com.pk/story/926515...s-protest-hostile-attitude-of-police-customs/
https://tribune.com.pk/story/739351...eaths-pour-in-as-tribesmen-threaten-protests/
https://www.sundayguardianlive.com/world/8168-all-pashtuns-want-freedom-pak
https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/pakistan-pashtuns-march-justice-180224114356113.html
https://www.dawn.com/news/1215686
How rosy their lives are now.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018...akistan-south-waziristan-180205091656542.html
https://www.dawn.com/news/1426689/pashteen-vows-to-continue-struggle-for-pakhtun-rights
https://www.pajhwok.com/en/2018/05/02/75pc-newly-built-schools-need-repair-survey-finds
https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/indep...90111140428304.html?__twitter_impression=true
What pakistan is an example of is a nation that hosts prolific terrorists like Osama bin Laden, fights other countries wars, uses terrorists as a proxy force against its neighbours as it itself has no chance of actually achieving something through its own military and then suffers through the same terrorism that it sought to unleash on others.
Oh yawn not this nonsense again.
Alright let's give you the benefit of the doubt, pakistani soldiers were only some half............ OF NINETY THREE THOUSAND.
The point is they were pAKISTANIS and they were under OUR MERCY. That is something no matter how much you try to twist will never be.
View attachment 532940
Ahhh, trying to salvage some izzat, too bad, a turd remains a turd regardless of how much chocolate syrup you put on it, so no, your leaders gained nothing and pakistan gained nothing from the 71 war.
You lost nigh half your territory, population, economy, your politicians and military leaders fell like bowling pins post 1971 and everything else in between.
Pakistan was taken from its name; a chunk of your country which is now growing faster than pakistan, is healthier than pakistan and will overtake the same in a few years and you say they got something from 71.
Aaah diverting from the topic with an epic strawman.
Truth after all is difficult to swallow for people who have always been told lies.
The only reason you have any peaks is because they were mostly uncontested,
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/1989886.stm
Of course PAF was scared.
PAF with its measly no bvr F-16s were no match for IAF's BVRed Mig-29s.
This is but fact that PAF had no gall to even defend PA soldiers in a war Pakistan initiated a few kilometers from the LOC.
Why should we conduct air raids? We aren't a war mongering nation that gets into wars willy nilly and then gets defeated.
Also, get your chronology straight, there was not a single Su-30s flying in IAF colours during Kargil.
Big whoop, shot down from the GROUND.
We killed multiple times the pakistanis in air strikes for those few losses.
One more reason why PAF was scared to death by the IAF.
The Atlantic incident that dispatched 16 pakistani military personnel is yet another example of why PAF had no confidence to retaliate against the IAF when IAF killed so many Pakistanis, officers included in peacetime.
Why didn't the PAF retaliate then when clearly according to you we shot down your plane which was in your territory at that time?
We’d much rather struggle to create indigenous equipment now and later become self-sufficient than paint green old russo designed chinese made planes now and be always dependent sugar daddies.
View attachment 532944
We already have graduated from sticker screwdrivergiri.
Look at Su-30MKI, HAL makes Al-31FP engines in house and also we have several Indian components in the MKI, where are your Pakistani indigenous equipment in JF-17?
Oh that’s right you have none.
Pakistan? 5th gen?
This $hit is hilarious right here.
What fighter grade wind tunnel facilitates are there in pakistan? How many new aircrafts have been tested in these facilities?
You got any rcs test facilities? Any IR test facilities for the same?
Have your aircraft design facilities ever designed a whole new fighter aircraft from the ground up?
What indigenous CAD softwares was pakistan able to develop?
What CFD tech were you lot able to make because of the JF-17?
Was pakistan able to develop quadruplex fly by wire after so many years post the induction of the JF-17?
What kind of composite research is going on in pakistan that is the direct cause of the JF-17?
Any fighter grade turbine research organization in pak?
Any radar R&D organization in pak that can develop AESA radars?
First answers these questions then talk about 5th gen.
We all know if Pakistan gets a 5th gen fighter aircraft i.e. if PAF ever has the money to handle a single engine 5th gen fighter forget a twin engined one, it’ll be exactly like the JF-17, a low grade less advanced fighter aircraft from china that the PLAAF themselves don’t use.
Whereas your AZM is barely even on the drawing board, we have already frozen our 5th gen design for our AMCA, developed IR and radar absorbent materials for the same, floated EOI to various private companies for its prototypes, etc.
Enjoy.
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/adva...-amca-development-updates-discussions.298161/
On the contrary.
Just coz Dassault “helped” doesn’t mean they did all of the work, they were only consultants. And similarly, we used American facilities and American themselves didn’t do all the work for us.
But more importantly, after the nuclear tests all of ADA’s work on the Tejas in the US was withheld, taken from our scientists and they were sent back to India, forcing them to start the process all over again, made facilities, softwares that can now be used to make new planes, which we did and came up with the current Tejas which is now inducted and operational.
Whereas you can’t even say that Pakistanis had any hand in designing the JF-17.
Keep crying coz we all know you lot are just envious of the fact that Pakistan neither has the capability nor the money to even attempt something like the Tejas.
Pakistani denial really is ugly.
Go ahead, learn how much of Tejas is made in India.
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/hal-tejas-updates-news-discussions-thread-2.351401/
Pakistan "co-producting" anything on the JF-17 will look like shriveled up inedible peanuts.
And how much of the RUSSIAN engine do you Pakistanis make in the JF-17?
ALso by your rhetoric the Al-31 engines your current sugar daddy uses on board their J-10s, J-11s and Su-30s are also crap.
The truth is PAC can’t hope to match HAL.
Fully Indian components in MKI:
Here's what HAL does in the Su-30MKI:
- Mission Computer cum Display Processor – MC-486 and DP-30MK (Defence Avionics Research Establishment – DARE)
- Radar Computer – RC1 and RC2 (DARE)
- Tarang Mk2 Radar Warning Receiver (RWR) + High Accuracy Direction Finding Module (HADF) (DARE
- IFF-1410A – Identification Friend or Foe (IFF)
- Integrated Communication suite INCOM 1210A (HAL)
- Radar Altimeter – RAM-1701 (HAL)
- Programmable Signal Processor (PSP) – (LRDE)
- Multi Function Displays (MFD) – Samtel/DARE
http://hal-india.co.in/Products/M__54
Whereas PAC doesn't even make the complete airframe for JF-17 even though it is a "joint venture" .
Clearly you remember imaginary excrement of people living 100s of kilometres away from you but forget the REAL OCCURRENCE of how PAF showed such bravery when they withdrew the JF-17s at the last minute in Bahrain when HAL came at the very end of the BIAS 2016 closing date and decided to participate with the Tejas.
Oh yawn, I have been hearing of your Blk3s since I joined pdf but it is yet to appear, maybe talk about it after it arrives(if ever), as you lot have a habit of over promising and under delivering.
Similar threads
