Malaysia to train Saudi navy to operate submarines

[muhammadali233]

That's quite wrong, Malaysian navy is very experienced and trained.

not in subs,not more than turkey or pak.
Egypt,malaysia and bangladesh are noobs in this matter.

 

[theman111]

i didnt knew malesia is expert in operate submerines

 

[Nakash Ahsan]

Pakistan ko juhlaa mil sakta

 

[New World]

i didnt knew malesia is expert in operate submerines

we also are unaware of that fact that we read here..

 

[Chhatrapati]

we also are unaware of that fact that we read here..

They do operate two subs. May be Malaysians offered it. KSA accepted.

 

[MICA]

not in subs,not more than turkey or pak.
Egypt,malaysia and bangladesh are noobs in this matter.

Egypt operate submarines probably before your father was born so I don't think we are considered as "noobs" in operating subs

 

[The SC]

the main question is why get training from malaysia ?they got their experience what 6 years back?Pakistan is operating subs for the past like 5 decades?Or get training from turkey which has been operating subs since ottomon empire.
Turkey or Pakistan would have been the best options to get training from.
Asking malaysia for training would be the same as getting training from Bangladesh,zero experience.

Read post # 2, that is why, and it indicates that KSA might be going for French subs..Turkey operates German Subs and Pakistan operates pre Scorpene subs, the facilities in Malaysia are the most modern and specific to the Scorpene..

what are those submarines going to be for?

What are all the submarines in the world for?

 

[New World]

They do operate two subs. May be Malaysians offered it. KSA accepted.

they operate in friendly environment, they dont have any sworn enemy..
they have scorpion sub, and saudi might be interested in buying that sub..

KSA needs both midget and 1400 t subs, midget for the Persian Gulf and regular ones for the Red Sea..

Small submarine KSS 500A (South Korea)
At the meeting in Busan Maritime Achievement Exhibition «Marine Week 2011", the South Korean unit of UK MoD «Agency for Defence Development» model showed a small submarine project «KSS 500A». Submarine intended to change the line of duty submarines state project «KSS-1" with a displacement of 250 tons. At the moment, South Korea to build two submarines type «Dolgorae», had risen in the UK commissioned the Navy in the early 80-ies of the last century. Work on the creation of MPL «KSS 500A» conducted since 2008. Now division «ADD» selects the probable manufacturers (suppliers) to be the main issue of the submarine. Until now, the fate of the upcoming submarine KSS 500A hitherto not been determined. The required funds for implementation of the project in the metal so far not identified.

Key Features: [/ b]
— displacement — 510 tons;
— length of 37 meters;
— width — 4.5 m;
— maximum depth — 250 meters;
— max speed / economy — 20/7 knots;
— while the autonomous sailing — 3 weeks;
— range of up to 2 thousand miles.
— crew min / max people -5/10
— landing capacity — 14 people.

Of the claimed features of the project MPL note the lack of electronic on-board generator to recharge the BATT. «KSS 500A» Go for surface movement traffic RDP uses the diesel engine is run for underwater movement uses the built-in electronic engine, which is aligned with the propeller and used to power 2 power lithium-ion BATTERY (charging takes place at the home base).

[/ B] The main sturdy thick-walled enclosure is divided into the 4th compartment: [/ b]
— living compartment (the nose of the body);
— compartment of the control room;
— engine compartment;
— spetsnagruzki compartment (aft part of the body).

In the stern of a modular camera «Flexible Payload Module» to enter the job frogmen and for the introduction of underwater vehicles. In the fore part is a sonar system with a large antenna of the nose and 6 -2 TA TA 533 mm and 4 TA-caliber 324 mm. Under this project, it is possible to accommodate 2 modules with vertical placement of RCC or minutes. 5 retractable lifting masts reserved fencing arrangements.

PS [/ b] Project «KSS 500A» rooted in the seized from the DPRK submarine reconnaissance number one, who has suffered a tragedy at the time. MPL South Korean project — is a large-scale version of the captured boat, which won the TA. In similar submarines the DPRK, battle modification of TA are standard weapons. The appearance of «KSS 500A» — a copy of the submarine project 214. Although stated that the submarine small displacement, 510 tons refer it to the middle class. Of TTX is clear that the main purpose submarines — perform various tasks in the territorial waters of the DPRK. A generator Submarine has not been effective because of the anti-submarine defense of the DPRK and the time to recharge them at will. Installed batteries charge a day or 1-2, which in the submarine force in specific tasks is not there. It turns out that this Submarine — An electronic torpedo bombers with the crew with the possibility of surface speed. Shallow depth of 250 meters — it's likely all that can give metallurgical factory, which obviously is not enough production technologies.

Issued submarine speed of 20 knots, points to the possibility of planning the use of MPL «KSS 500A» capture (capture) submarines DPRK. Used batteries are not admitted to the technical level of the discharge of more than 60 percent of capacity. This immediately reduces the range of the 2000 to 1200 miles. In addition, in those waters, where they plan to use the subs are strong undercurrents of overcoming them will claim an engine / motor at a high speed that hi to more Hassle-flow capacity of the battery. Time autonomously immediately fall by more than two thirds, and it turns out that to perform battle puzzles in the submarine «KSS 500A» is little more than a week.

Torpedoes small caliber — own production, and 533 mm for the German torpedo «SUT». Use a U-boat submarines against North Korea is not the best idea. After all, even the first torpedo used by Korean submarines, torpedoes superior South Korean production. Only two German torpedoes something else can. In reality it turns out that «KSS 500A» martial traits is in line with the DPRK submarine «Sang-O». And they are a lot cheaper and are real boats of small displacement (256 tons). And the introduction of high-BATTERY exceptionally well in the case of performing the tasks of sabotage, because in any case after a military clash submarine will pursue, and she very quickly use up the battery capacity and remains vulnerable — either have to leave the boat and drown, or it will be captured. Even if the submarine will leave you absolutely have to replace the battery, making the submarine more more expensive to use. And the fact that designers do not set the generator on it. And if it is all the same to install, during the charging time (day or 1-2), it will be very vulnerable. Diesel engine mounted in a single execution will not pull and work and exercises. You can go for the installation of the shaft generator, but it will lead to a drop in speed and increase fuel consumption, not to mention the fact that the shaft generator is quite large and will have to significantly alter the project.

http://survincity.com/2012/12/small-submarine-kss-500a-south-korea/



SS-209 Changbogo Class Submarines




The Changbogo class submarines are Diesel/Electric propulsion submarines, built under license in South Korea, based on German Type 209-1200. ROKS Changbogo(SS-61), the first ship of this class, was launched on June 1992 by HDW at Kiel in Germany and commissioned on June 1993. The remainder were assembled at Okpo by DAEWOO from material packages transported from Germany. The second and subsequent boats were built by Daewoo Heavy Industries Co. at Koje island, South Korea. ROKS Leesunsin (SS-68), the 7th ship launched on 21 May 1998.

Specifications :

• 
  
  
  • Length : 56 m (187.5 ft)
  • Beam : 6.25 m (20.5 ft)
  • Draft : 5.5 m (18 ft)
  • Propulsion : Diesel/Electric
  • Speed : 21.5 knots, Maximum – submerged 11 knots, Maximum – surfaced
  • Range : 7500 miles (8 knots, snorkel) 370 miles (submerged)
  • Displacement : 1100 tons surfaced. 1285 tons surmerged
  • Crew : 30 (6 officers)
  • Torpedo : 14 STN SUT mod 2 or LG Whiteshark 8 533mm/21inch Torpedo tubes
  • Mines : 28 mines (instead of torpedo)
  • Missile : SUB-Harpoon
  • Countermeasures ESM : Argo
  • Sonars : Atlas Elecktronik CSU 83
  • Weapon control : Atlas Elecktronik ISUS 83 TFCS
  • Radars Navigation : I-Band

https://knowledgsearch.wordpress.com/2010/08/04/ss-209-changbogo-class-submarines/

SSK Andrasta Littoral Submarine, France


The 19-crew, 855t displacement, Andrasta submarine, announced by DCNS in September 2008, has been optimised for littoral operations in coastal waters, but remains a formidable adversary in blue (deep) water environments.

The submarine is named after Andrasta, the Celtic goddess of war whose name means victorious or invincible. The prime contractor, DCNS, considers that the Andrasta has no equivalent for littoral missions in terms of manoeuvrability and stealth.

Andrasta submarine design
The submarine design draws heavily on the proven configuration and systems adopted for the Scorpene family and has about 70% commonality with the Scorpene. The Andrasta surfaced displacement is 855t compared to the 1,790t to 2,010t displacement of the Scorpene. The submarine incorporates the same level of safety, stealth signatures and systems integration as the Scorpene.

"The SSK Andrasta submarine has been optimised for littoral operations in coastal waters."
The Andrasta can lurk on the seabed in coastal waters where the water depth is typically less than 100m. At a speed of 4kt the range is more than 3,000nm and more than 1,800nm at 8kt.

Andrasta is being presented to world markets at about half the cost of attack submarines such as the Scorpene. The Andrasta design can incorporate extra performance options which are not mandatory for littoral missions but which customer countries may require, without degrading the submarine’s efficiency.

For specials operations, the Andrasta has a deployment airlock for combat swimmers, electronic warfare and intelligence gathering systems.

Andrasta missions
The submarine missions cover anti-submarine warfare, anti-surface warfare, intelligence gathering, special operations, offensive mine mooring, covert tracking of illegal activities, single ship operations and cooperative operations with other ships or maritime assets. The Andrasta is equipped to communicate easily with other assets and command centres.

Hull design
The double-hull structure gives good survivability and surfaced sea keeping characteristics. An X-configuration rudder has independently operated surfaces for a high level of manoeuvrability including a small turning radius.

The small hull helps contribute to the submarine's stealth characteristics. The submarine has a diving depth to 200m and a submerged endurance of five days. It also has a very low acoustic and visual signature.

Command and control
The Andrasta is equipped with the DCNS SUBTICS submarine tactical integrated combat system. SUBTICS systems are in operation aboard Scorpene submarines of the Chilean Navy and Agosta 90B submarines for the Pakistan Navy

The combat management system is integrated with the sonar and other sensors (optical, optronic, electronic support measures, radar) and carries out the location and identification of vessels, target tracking, tactical analysis, decision making, action management, exchange of tactical data via datalinks, the control of weapons systems and engagement of targets.

"Andrasta's double-hull structure gives good survivability and surfaced sea keeping characteristics."
The submarine is equipped with high-precision navigation and surveillance systems for operation in littoral waters. Surveillance missions can be successfully carried out while the submarine is at rest on the seabed.

Weapons
The Andrasta can accommodate new-generation heavyweight torpedoes such as the Black Shark, anti-ship missiles such as the Exocet SM-39 and a mine-laying system. The torpedoes and missiles are stored and carried in the six forward torpedo tubes. The small hull size of the submarine does not accommodate torpedoes and missiles for reload.

Special forces
The Andrasta submarines, which can carry two passengers plus a team of six divers, can be deployed for special forces missions which gives the Andrasta an enhanced attack capability comparable to larger submarines. The submarine is fitted with a lock-out / lock-in chamber for combat swimmers.

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/andrasta-submarine/



SSK Scorpene Class Attack Submarine, France


The Scorpene submarine has been jointly developed by DCNS of France (formerly DCN) and Navantia (formerly Bazan, then Izar) of Spain. Two Scorpene submarines were ordered by Chile. The vessels replace two Oberon Class submarines which were retired in 1998 and 2003.

The first, O'Higgins, was built at DCN shipyard in Cherbourg, launched in November 2003, and commissioned in September 2005. It arrived in Chile in January 2006. The second, Carrera, built at the Navantia shipyard in Cartagena, Spain, was launched in November 2004 and commissioned in July 2006. Carrera arrived at its homeport of Talcahuano in December 2006.

Chilean Navy Scorpene submarines
The 1,500t Scorpene built for the Chilean Navy has a length of 66.4m. The two vessels are powered by four diesel generators providing more than 2,500kW using GM synchronous motors with permanent magnets.

The Chilean Scorpene has a hull-mounted medium-frequency active / passive sonar. The vessels are armed with WASS (Whitehead Alenia Sistemi Subaquei) Black Shark heavyweight torpedoes.

The Black Shark is a dual-purpose, wire-guided torpedo, which is fitted with Astra active / passive acoustic head, and a multi-target guidance and control unit incorporating a counter-countermeasures system. It has an electrical propulsion system based on a silver oxide and aluminium battery. Black Shark also arms the two Scorpene vessels for the Royal Malaysian Navy.

The six torpedo tubes are capable of firing SM-39 Exocet anti-ship missiles, which have a range of 50km, but they are not initially carried. The vessels are equipped with EDO Reconnaissance Systems AR-900 electronic support measures/direction-finding (ESM/DF) system.

Malaysian Navy Scorpene attack submarines
The Royal Malaysian Navy placed a contract for two Scorpene submarines in June 2002. The first vessel, KD Tunku Abdul Rahman, was launched at DCNS Cherbourg in October 2007. It was handed over in January 2009 in Toulon and arrrived in Malaysia in September 2009.

The second, Tun Razak, was launched at Navantia Cartagena in October 2008 and commissioned in 2009. DCNS built the bow sections, Navantia the aft sections.

Indian Navy Scorpene attack submarines
"The SSK Scorpene attack submarine is equipped with six bow-located 21in torpedo tubes providing salvo launch capability."
In October 2005, India placed an order for six Scorpene submarines. The submarines are being built at the state-owned Mazagon dockyard in Bombay, with technical assistance and equipment from French companies DCN and Thales.

At the same time, India also placed an order for 36 MBDA SM-39 Exocet anti-ship missiles to arm the submarines.

Construction of the first vessel, INS Kalvari, began in December 2006 and is scheduled to be delivered by March 2017. The second submarine in class, INS Khanderi, was launched in January 2017. The total cost of the submarines is estimated to be Rs235.6bn ($3.75bn).

Brazilian Navy Scorpene attack submarines
In December 2008, Brazil placed an order for four diesel-electric-powered submarines based on the Scorpene.

The submarines are being built by a joint venture company set up by DCNS and Odebrecht of Brazil and the first submarine is expected to enter service in 2017. The construction of the submarines started in July 2011.

Weapon systems
The Scorpene attack submarine can carry 18 torpedoes and missiles or 30 mines. It is equipped with six bow-located 21in torpedo tubes providing salvo launch capability. Positive discharge launching is by an air turbine pump.

"Handling and loading of weapons is automated."
The submarine's weapons include anti-ship and anti-submarine torpedoes and anti-surface missiles. The handling and loading of weapons is automated.

SUBTICS combat management system
The SUBTICS combat management system, with up to six multifunction common consoles and a centrally situated tactical table, is collocated with the platform-control facilities.

The combat management system is composed of a command and tactical data handling system, a weapon control system and an integrated suite of acoustic sensors with an interface to a set of air surface detection sensors and to the integrated navigation system. The system can also download data from external sources.

The integrated navigation system combines data from global positioning systems, the log, depth measurement and the ship's trim / list monitoring system. The Scorpene monitors the environment including seawater density and temperature and the submarine's own noise signature.

Sonar suite
The vessel's sonar suite includes a long-range passive cylindrical array, an intercept sonar, active sonar, distributed array, flank array, a high-resolution sonar for mine and obstacle avoidance and a towed array.

Control and monitoring
All submarine handling operations are carried out from the control room. The vessel features a high level of automation and surveillance, with automatic control mode of rudders and propulsion, continuous monitoring of the propulsion systems and platform installations, centralised and continuous surveillance of all potential hazards (leaks, fires, presence of gases) and the status of the installations that affect the safety while submerged.

Construction
"The submarine's weapons include anti-ship and anti-submarine torpedoes and anti-surface missiles."
The submarine incorporates a high level of system redundancy to achieve an average 240 days at sea a year for each submarine. The maximum diving depth is 300m, giving the commander more tactical freedom than previously available on conventional submarines. There is no limit to the duration of dives at a maximum depth, other than the power systems and crew limitations.

The structure of the submarine uses high-yield stress-specific steel, enabling dives to maximum depths when necessary.

Incorporating high-tensile steels has reduced the weight of the pressure hull, allowing a larger load of fuel and ammunition. The reduced complement minimises training costs and increase combat efficiency by making more space, while a larger payload enhances the ship's autonomy.

When dived, the Scorpene has low radiated noise that permits improved detection ranges of its own sensors and reduced risk of detection by hostile sensors. The low radiated noise is achieved through the use of advanced hydrodynamics with an albacore bow shape, with fewer appendages and an optimised propeller.

Between the suspended decks, the equipment is mounted on elastic mountings wherever possible, and the noisiest systems have a double-elastic mounting to reduce the risk of their noise profiles being radiated outside the submarine. The shock-resistant systems have been developed from systems incorporated in advanced nuclear-powered submarine designs.

The low-acoustic signature and hydrodynamic shock-resistance give the Scorpene class the capability to carry out anti-submarine and anti-surface ship warfare operations in closed or open sea conditions, as well as the capability of working with special forces in coastal waters.

Crew facilities
The ship can hold a total company of 31 men with a standard watch team of nine. The control room and the living quarters are mounted on an elastically supported and acoustically isolated floating platform. All living and operational areas are air-conditioned. The submarine also has space for six additional fold-down bunks for special operations crew.

"The ship can hold a total company of 31 men with a standard watch team of nine."
The vessel is equipped with all the necessary systems to provide vital supplies, water, provisions, regeneration of the atmosphere, to ensure the survival of all crew for seven days.

The ship is equipped with full rescue and safety systems.

A connection point for a diving bell or deep submergence rescue vehicle (DSRV) allows collective rescue operations.

Stealth design
The planning and design of the Scorpene was directed towards achieving an extremely quiet vessel with a great detection capability and offensive power.

The forms of the hull, the sail and the appendages have been specifically designed to produce minimum hydrodynamic noise. The various items of equipment are mounted on elastic supports, which are in turn mounted on uncoupled blocks and suspended platforms. The isolation also provides better shock protection to the equipment.

Propulsion systems
The Scorpene has two diesel generation sets providing 1,250kW of power. At the top of the hull immediately above the diesel generator sets is a Dutch Breach machinery shipping hatch. The submarine has an elastically supported 2,900kW electronic engine.

There are two variants of Scorpene, the CM-2000 with the conventional propulsion system and the AM-2000 equipped with air independent propulsion. The AM-2000 is capable of remaining submerged on underwater patrol for three times longer than the CM-2000.

Air independent propulsion
A conventional diesel-electrical submarine sailing underwater is difficult to detect. However the need to come repeatedly to periscope depth to recharge the batteries using the diesel engine greatly increases vulnerability by:

• Its aerial detectability, since the snorkel projecting from the water is detectable by radar
• Its underwater detectability due to increase in radiated noise from the working diesels

The ratio between this time of greater vulnerability and the total operating time is known as the 'indiscretion rate' and for all conventional modem submarines the indiscretion ratio ranges typically from 7% to 10% on patrol at 4kt, and 20% to 30% in transit at 8kt.

"To lessen the submarine's vulnerability, Scorpene can be equipped with an air independent propulsion system."
To lessen the submarine's vulnerability, the vessel can be equipped with an air independent propulsion system such as: the Stirling engine, the fuel cell, the closed circuit diesel and the module d'energie sous-marine autonome (MESMA) system .

The MESMA anaerobic system, in which heat in the primary circuit is produced by burning ethanol with oxygen, can be easily installed either at the start of the submarine's construction or in a later modernisation to convert the CM-2000 to an AM-2000 build standard.

With the MESMA system the AM-2000 submarine can stay down on underwater patrol three times longer than the CM-2000.

Its performance features remain the same in all other respects, except that the length increases to 70m and its submerged displacement to 1.870t (against the 61.7m and the 1,565t of the CM2000).

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/scorpene

how about Augusta-90? MESMA system can also be fitted on that..
And Pakistan has export licence of them

@Rashid Mahmood @Zarvan

 

[Super Falcon]

KSA better buy midget class and ask Isreal to modify . Isreali are master in making shallow water subs.

Stupid idea and what credibility Malaysian Navy has of sea war none U 214 Is the best diesel Electric Submarine which KSA can buy other options are Japanese Surya class subs Both are small subs and are of best of best technology

 

[The SC]

how about Augusta-90? MESMA system can also be fitted on that..
And Pakistan has export licence of them

@Rashid Mahmood @Zarvan

Agosta-90 are pre-Scorpene tech, the Scorpene is the latest, it is not sure that the MESMA AIP is the system on the Scorpene or a newer one, and by the way KSA looks for ToT too.. Not to forget that KSA do not want India to be alarmed by training its subs personnel in Pakistan, Malaysia is neutral in this regard and that might be the reason for choosing it..

Stupid idea and what credibility Malaysian Navy has of sea war none U 214 Is the best diesel Electric Submarine which KSA can buy other options are Japanese Surya class subs Both are small subs and are of best of best technology

Germans didn't want to sell their Subs to KSA, that might change with a new government in Germany.. And the Japanese Sōryū-class submarines are 3000t, they are too heavy for KSA needs, which is in the 1400 to 1600t, The Scorpene subs fit well, since the U-209 and 214 are not available.. but a South Korean option for the 214 might be looked at..

 

[Penguin]

Stupid idea and what credibility Malaysian Navy has of sea war none U 214 Is the best diesel Electric Submarine which KSA can buy other options are Japanese Surya class subs Both are small subs and are of best of best technology

Small? Soryu is one of the largest conventional SSK around. Type 214 is Similar to Scorpene AM2000

Type 214 (AIP)
Displacement:1,690 t (surfaced), 1,860 t (submerged)
Length: 213 feet 3 inches (65.0 m)
Beam: 20 feet 8 inches (6.3 m)
Draught: 19 feet 8 inches (6.0 m)

Soryu (AIP)
Displacement: 2,900 t (surfaced), 4,200 t (submerged)
Length: 84.0 m (275 ft 7 in)
Beam: 9.1 m (29 ft 10 in)
Draught: 8.5 m (27 ft 11 in)

The Scorpène class of submarines has four subtypes: the CM-2000 conventional diesel-electric version, the AM-2000 AIP derivative, the downsized CA-2000 coastal submarine, and the enlarged S-BR for the Brazilian Navy, without AIP

Displacement:

• 1,565 t (CM-2000)
• 1,870 t (AM-2000)
• 2,000 t (S-BR)

Length:

• 61.7 m (202 ft) (CM-2000)
• 70 m (230 ft) (AM-2000)
• 75 metres (246 ft) (S-BR)

Beam: 6.2 m (20 ft)
Draught: 5.4 m (18 ft)
Draft: 5.8 m (19 ft)

 

[Michael Corleone]

what subs have they ordered? or are they planning to acquire? from whom?

 

[Rashid Mahmood]

how about Augusta-90? MESMA system can also be fitted on that..
And Pakistan has export licence of them

Pakistan does not have export licence for MESMA or the 90-B.

 

[Chhatrapati]

they operate in friendly environment, they dont have any sworn enemy..
they have scorpion sub, and saudi might be interested in buying that sub..
@Rashid Mahmood @Zarvan

Scorpene class subs. They do have some issues with Indonesia but not serious. Enough for them to be alert. Hence the subs.

 

[Zarvan]

they operate in friendly environment, they dont have any sworn enemy..
they have scorpion sub, and saudi might be interested in buying that sub..




how about Augusta-90? MESMA system can also be fitted on that..
And Pakistan has export licence of them

@Rashid Mahmood @Zarvan

A Country not having Armed Forces or reducing its forces thinking they don't have the enemy is the biggest fool on face of the earth. No they won't sell there submarines in fact they plan to grow induct more Ships and also Submarines and every country should do it, even if you haven't faced war in decades. As for Saudi Arabia they are doing good and yes they need to induct Submarines and I hope the Submarines they induct are equipped with VLS to carry Cruise Missiles and they also need to go for Destroyers.