Malaysia Tilts Towards China

[Martian2]

Might is right?

No. If your wrong in trying to claim 2,000-year-old Chinese islands then might is extremely important.

Might is not right. I have never advocated conquering other people's traditional homelands.

My argument is for the reclamation of Chinese historical territory. I do not advocated expanding beyond China's historical maps.

1. Those damn Indian imperialists are ruling over our Chinese South Tibetans. This must be fixed at some point.

2. Imperialist Japanese are still occupying China's Daiyou/Senkaku Islands after stealing it at gunpoint in 1895. This must be rectified too.

3. China must protect its sovereignty in the South China Sea.

However, the principle stands that you don't annex other people's traditional homelands. We just want to reclaim what is ours.

 

[gpit]

This is a map of China in 1910, it has no Paracels and the Spratlys, and surely it has no the bizarre "nine dotted line":

Have you ever wondered why a small country Vietnam is currently occupied 40 islands in the Spratly Islands, while a large country like China is only occupied on some coral reefs? [Necessary to recall that all the coral reefs that are occupied by China which China has used force to rob them from Vietnam in 1988]
I bet that you dont know why.

Have you ever read this map?

Dude, there enormous amount maps that you haven't seen by all include those island as Chinese "sea territories".

 

[EastSea]

Good points!

China should work with Malaysia and other friendly countries in dispute to get most islands from aggressor Vietnam and Phil. and share among the allies.

don't cheating. Malaysia belong to Malaysia people. If chinese are living in Malaysia become betrayer to the country has been let them chance to live there, What will happen ? Think about accident in Indonesia in the past. ahfatzia is chinese boy cheering for chinese interest with lies.

According to a map, published by the Qing Dynasty in 1894, Chinese territory ended at the Hainan Island.

 

[ChinaToday]

don't cheating. Malaysia belong to Malaysia people. If chinese are living in Malaysia become betrayer to the country has been let them chance to live there, What will happen ? Think about accident in Indonesia in the past. ahfatzia is chinese boy cheering for chinese interest with lies.

According to a map, published by the Qing Dynasty in 1894, Chinese territory ended at the Hainan Island.

Vietnam also friendly to china that s why chinese controlled 80% of vietnam economy

 

[trinity]

Stop talking for Muslims, I'm Muslim and I don't hate China or people of any other race or religion in the world. I only hate injustice and aggression, regardless of who the perpetrators are.

How do you feel about the treatment of Turks in China?

Have you ever read this map?

Dude, there enormous amount maps that you haven't seen by all include those island as Chinese "sea territories".

Well, the same arguement can be made to counter such BS. I can show a map that includes makes India bigger from Afghanistan to Indo-China. The point is we are living in the present. CHina's reasoning is beyond logic and only mkes the world think twice about its strategic outlook. Though one nation alone will find it hard to fight China, working together with many nations will make it easy.

 

[Rechoice]

Vietnam also friendly to china that s why chinese controlled 80% of vietnam economy

You don't feel any shameful when you lies. You has been changed your figure randomly from pot to post.
60 % economy of Vietnam controlled by State own Companies.
Chinese in native living in Vietnam around 860.000 chinese/ 86 million of Viet, mostly in HCM city and Mekong delta. in HCM city 30% private companies Chinese.
Lying is main character of Chinese.

 

[Roybot]

No. If your wrong in trying to claim 2,000-year-old Chinese islands then might is extremely important.

Might is not right. I have never advocated conquering other people's traditional homelands.

My argument is for the reclamation of Chinese historical territory. I do not advocated expanding beyond China's historical maps.

Oh the hypocrisy, does this mean china will get out of Tibet and Xinjiang, leaving the traditional lands of Tibetans and Uyghurs?

The definition of "traditional lands of china" itself is imperialistic and hegemonic.

 

[oct605032048]

Uyghurs never had Xinjiang. They were merely subjects of the Junggars before the Mongol tribe/empire was vanished by Qing.

 

[Roybot]

Uyghurs never had Xinjiang. They were merely subjects of the Junggars before the Mongol tribe/empire was vanished by Qing.

And the Tibetans?

 

[Battle of Bach Dang River]

You guys keep repeating China robbed your islands and the reason you give was "Vietnam owned them for long long time" is so ridiculous and no one recognized them otherwise there wouldn't that many claimants for those islands. And also when Philippines sent troops to take over Northeast Cay 北子島 in 1968 and occupied them till now you guys here never complain PH rob your islands. How convenient Vietnam crying to the world that China robbed you islands. Poor Vietnam, that what your country want the world feel for her: a pitiful victim of a crime.

In 1974 Vietnam began sending troops, without the knowledge of the others, and possessed the islands one by one and the final result was illegally occupies 40 islands. No one country in the neighborhood recognizes Vietnam's occupations are legal hence the ones who think those particular island(s) belong to her(them) come out to protest. That's why we have disputes here.

If Vietnam's possessions are legal and internationally recognized, we wouldn't have disputes here, do we?

I have said many times that China used force to rob the Paracel Islands from Vietnam in 1974 and some coral reefs in the Spratly Islands from Vietnam in 1988. It does not change even if I say that repeated thousands of times because it's true.

During the late 1960s and early 1970s, South Vietnam was being flooded in the Vietnam war, so they were not enough forces to continue to occupy all the islands in the Spratly Islands, which was time that the Philippines and Malaysia began to occupy some islands near them. But they went to there without any military conflict because South Vietnam withdrew from these islands before. [Note that the Spratly Islands hundreds of miles long so not easy to South Vietnam continued to occupy all islands during escalation of the war in Vietnam mainland].

But the Vietnamese have never left the main island of the archipelago [except for a short time the Japanese invaded the archipelago 1939-1945], it is called Spratly Island (Truong Sa) and its name called for entire archipelago.

Due to the dispute so both the Paracels and Spratlys were not recognized for Vietnam, and certainly no anyone recognized them for China. Chinese are very talented in making the undisputed areas become disputed areas.

You said that VN "possessed the islands one by one", if so, where were Chinese at that time, while she claims that she had controlled them earlier, from BC? [lol on chinese]

Only one thing you're right, it is you said "Poor Vietnam", it supported for your arguments one-sided and incorrect above.

A Pagoda on the Spratly Island of the Spratly archipelago, Vietnam

Spratly archipelago, Vietnam

Vietnamese people on Spratly Island, Vietnam

A School on the Spratly Islands, Vietnam

 

[oct605032048]

And the Tibetans?

Tibetans are our countrymen.

 

[ahfatzia]

I have said many times that China used force to rob the Paracel Islands from Vietnam in 1974 and some coral reefs in the Spratly Islands from Vietnam in 1988. It does not change even if I say that repeated thousands of times because it's true.

During the late 1960s and early 1970s, South Vietnam was being flooded in the Vietnam war, so they were not enough forces to continue to occupy all the islands in the Spratly Islands, which was time that the Philippines and Malaysia began to occupy some islands near them. But they went to there without any military conflict because South Vietnam withdrew from these islands before. [Note that the Spratly Islands hundreds of miles long so not easy to South Vietnam continued to occupy all islands during escalation of the war in Vietnam mainland].

But the Vietnamese have never left the main island of the archipelago [except for a short time the Japanese invaded the archipelago 1939-1945], it is called Spratly Island (Truong Sa) and its name called for entire archipelago.

Due to the dispute so both the Paracels and Spratlys were not recognized for Vietnam, and certainly no anyone recognized them for China. Chinese are very talented in making the undisputed areas become disputed areas.

You said that VN "possessed the islands one by one", if so, where were Chinese at that time, while she claims that she had controlled them earlier, from BC? [lol on chinese]

Only one thing you're right, it is you said "Poor Vietnam", it supported for your arguments one-sided and incorrect above.

1) China used forces to take the islands in 1974 and 1988 because Vietnamese forces occupied the islands and if Vietnam unilaterally decided the islands belonged to her, without international recognitions, China had the right to use forces to retake her properties in which she though was hers. China could've claimed Vietnam 'robbed' her islands and now she took them back. Just because China never said Vietnam robbed her islands didn't mean Vietnam didn't do it. You can claim China robbed you islands all you want but no one in his fair mind would believe you because, to an outsider, those islands do not belong to Vietnam.

2) Those islands in SCS are life unsustainable and no one actually occupied them even though many nations claim them. Leave the colonial French aside because their claimed of ownership is immaterial here and no one would recognize it. The first time someone made an international recognition occupation was ROC put a marker stone in Taiping Island but she didn't keep a force until after half a century later. When Vietnam began her move to occupy 40 islands in 1974 and built infrastructures with troops in her biggest island Spratly no one recognized her legitimacy other than herself.

I'm not arguing Vietnam has no rights to claim the islands as all the six parties have the rights, in their own perspectives, and that's why those island are called ' dispute ownerships'. But by calling China repeatedly as a robber of Vietnam's islands can only make Vietnam look bad in the eyes of the world.

 

[Battle of Bach Dang River]

1) China used forces to take the islands in 1974 and 1988 because Vietnamese forces occupied the islands and if Vietnam unilaterally decided the islands belonged to her, without international recognitions, China had the right to use forces to retake her properties in which she though was hers. China could've claimed Vietnam 'robbed' her islands and now she took them back. Just because China never said Vietnam robbed her islands didn't mean Vietnam didn't do it. You can claim China robbed you islands all you want but no one in his fair mind would believe you because, to an outsider, those islands do not belong to Vietnam.

2) Those islands in SCS are life unsustainable and no one actually occupied them even though many nations claim them. Leave the colonial French aside because their claimed of ownership is immaterial here and no one would recognize it. The first time someone made an international recognition occupation was ROC put a marker stone in Taiping Island but she didn't keep a force until after half a century later. When Vietnam began her move to occupy 40 islands in 1974 and built infrastructures with troops in her biggest island Spratly no one recognized her legitimacy other than herself.

I'm not arguing Vietnam has no rights to claim the islands as all the six parties have the rights, in their own perspectives, and that's why those island are called ' dispute ownerships'. But by calling China repeatedly as a robber of Vietnam's islands can only make Vietnam look bad in the eyes of the world.

If China confirms that she has controlled over the islands before, so why she does not agree with the others brought the evidences to international court for arbitration of the disputes?
I believe that with today's technology, we are completely able to verify the evidences are real or fake.

I find that the Chinese are always afraid to court to resolve disputes. Even now she is trying to prevent ASEAN refers to the disputed SCS. Why?

 

[ahfatzia]

If China confirms that she has controlled over the islands before, so why she does not agree with the others brought the evidences to international court for arbitration of the disputes?
I believe that with today's technology, we are completely able to verify the evidences are real or fake.

I find that the Chinese are always afraid to court to resolve disputes. Even now she is trying to prevent ASEAN refers to the disputed SCS. Why?

Let me just say this as a third party observer, all six parties have their legitimate claims or not all of you have them. You all have to resolve within your group and not by calling in the former white colonial powers as arbiters in which the existing international laws are made by them. In order to find the right settlements someone has to take the leadership role, be it to be Vietnam or China, you guys decide. China's position is very clear: solve them peacefully is to your benefits or else......

BTW any strong power would do the same, and the US or Russia would do no less.

There are many reasons China refuses to find settlements by international arbitration, the above is one of the reasons, and they will take too long to explain which is not in the perimeter of our discussion.

 

[WuMaoCleverbot]

Malaysians are a lot smarter than Viets or Filipinos. Everyone has seen the size of the PLA Navy ( China sent 97 Chinese vessels and fishing boats against our 2 rusty small ships but we stood up against China )

Rule #1 of warfare: If you don't have comparable power, don't escalate and provoke a confrontation ( China's the one who provoked and escalated the situation. China would rather wage WAR than exhaust available educated/diplomatic/legal/civilized means )

Right now, Vietnam and the Philippines are in a bind. They harassed Chinese fishermen in Chinese territorial waters ( The Philippines didn't harassed anybody, we are just enforcing our laws. Those Chinese fishermen were caught poaching well inside our territory ) and forced Beijing to deploy its warships on combat patrols. How do they avoid a military conflict with China?

There are only two unappetizing choices.

1. Stay meekly at home and away from the Chinese warships ( We prefer to stand up against China's bullying ).

2. Confront the Chinese warships and get blown to bits ( We've already stood up against China but it seems China's afraid to pull the trigger ).

I have no idea which choice the dumb Viets and Filipinos will pick. Their stupidity has exceeded my expectations up to now ( The Chinese people are stupid to believe the LIES that their gov't is telling them. China's historical claim is GROUNDLESS and not recognized under international law )

It seems that way thanks to the self victimized internationalization efforts by VN and PH.

Vietnam and Philippines are real victims of China's bullying. We caught Chinese poachers stealing corals, sharks and endangered sea turtles well inside our territory, China then intimidated us then portray herself(China) as the victim.

On the surface, and for the ones not in the knows, China is the aggressor. But in reality, at least for the players involved, they all know who the aggressor really is. American's vocal meddling makes it an international event.

China is the real aggressor. China's the one who prevented the arrest of Chinese poachers. China's the one who sent CMS ships inside our territory. China's the one who threatened war with us. China's the one who bullied our Philippine coast guard vessels.

PH hits Sino ‘bullying,’ sticks to ‘right is might’
By DJ Yap, Philip C. Tubeza
Philippine Daily Inquirer

Hernandez said the “speeding” Chinese ship approached the two Philippine vessels at around 20 knots and then veered away, generating a two-meter wave.
“In these instances, the speeding FLEC 310 generated a two-meter wave in her wake, but no damage was inflicted on our two ships, which did not react to the bullying by FLEC 310,” Hernandez said.
“These maneuvers by the Chinese vessel posed a danger to the Philippine vessels, which could mean a violation of the International Regulations for Preventing Collisions of Ships at Sea,” Hernandez said.

PH hits Sino

Philippine Coast Guard Bullied by China's Ship
8 Chinese Vessels against 1 Philippine Vessel
China=Fail

Exclusive! Philippine Coast Guard Bullied by China's Ship - YouTube

No. China's claim is only the midpoint between Chinese islands and other nations' coastline. It is consistent with UNCLOS.

China's historical claim is GROUNDLESS and not recognized under international law. I do recall that China's historical evidence is NOWHERE TO BE FOUND. And everything is just based on what their government is claiming?? No pictures available on the net or newspapers.. Wow! Maybe the Chinese government is just fabricating LIES about their history!

China was magnanimous and offered joint development along the lines of the Sino-Japanese joint gas development. The Vietnamese and Filipinos flatly rejected joint development.

What's magnanimous in China's logic of "MINE IS MINE, YOURS IS MINE AND WE SHARE???"

That leaves only war to resolve the dispute.

Another Chinese LIE. There's international arbitration to resolve the dispute. China’s consistent refusal to bring its claim to the United Nation’s International Court of Justice (ICJ) or United Nation’s International Tribunal on the Law of the Sea (ITLOS) by itself is a tacit admission that it cannot prove its so called historical claim before a proper neutral court.

My argument is for the reclamation of Chinese historical territory. I do not advocated expanding beyond China's historical maps.
.

Can you post those Chinese historical maps??? All the Chinese imperial maps that I've seen say that Hainan is the end of China's territory. So why are Chinese claiming the SCS???