What's new

Makkah should be a separate state

Status
Not open for further replies.

Shahin Vatani

SENIOR MEMBER
Joined
Jun 15, 2012
Messages
2,025
Reaction score
0
Mecca has always been our locus. Islam was incomplete until Mecca embraced it. Muhammad willed himself to live only as long as Mecca was not his. For forteen hundred years we have gone to Mecca in search of God, in fulfillment of duty. We have assured that the pilgrim’s path to Mecca be unimpeded. We have stepped in the footprints of Abraham in Mecca. We have kissed the black stone of Mecca. We have stoned the devil in Mecca. We have killed those like Hallaj who dared to make a Mecca in their backyard. We have told stories about the invincibility of Mecca – how no birds fly directly over the Kaba; how even an army of elephants were rent asunder on the plains outside Mecca; attempted to prove how Mecca is the center of the universe; how Adam first landed in Mecca (and not Sri Lanka); how Mecca is our everything.

Unfortunately, the city of eminence is also the fount of sorrow. The place of our genesis is also the spring of our misfortunes. Mecca is the Muslim’s Helen of Troy. A being so sacred as to arouse a thousand phallii, and launch a thousand deaths. Mecca has been the battleground, if not directly, then symbolically, for every battle of legitimacy in Islamic History. Mecca may be lovely, but in our love of Mecca we have hurt each other immensely. Perhaps we would have never had to battle one another over Mecca (or over “Mecca”) if the Prophet would have left a clergy in place. Or if he would have left a political structure in place. Or if he would have left angels to rule us in his stead. However, given that he did no such thing, given that he left us to our own individual devices, it meant that each and every one of us felt that we were the true guardians of Mecca, that each one of us in his own capacity, was the true guardian of God’s Arabian Abode. In each of our desires to assume this responsibility we turned against one another. We killed one another. We separated from one another.

Mecca, you see, whether we realize it or not, is our temporal unifier, not, as most are wont to believe, The Caliphate. Shia, Sunni, Black, White, Broken, Rich, we agree all on the fact that the soul of Islam stems from Mecca and the spine of Islam is rooted in Mecca. A cursory look at Islamic History confirms this, because we see that we have not considered any Caliphate legitimate unless it was somehow connected to Mecca. Let me put it another way: while there have been many Caliphs and Sultans in the lands of Muslims, we have only considered the ultimate rulers of Islam to be those who had dominion over Mecca. The Umayyads were only the Caliphs of Islam as long as they held Mecca. When the Abbassids took it from them, the Umayyads were no more the Caliph. In fact, even as the Umayyads left Arabia and settled in Spain and called themselves Caliph, still no one consented to them being able to assume that title. Why? Because they did not have dominion over Mecca. Then, when the Seljuks controlled the Abbassids and even controlled the capital, Baghdad, the Seljuks still did not call themselves Caliph, but rather, consented to letting the Abbassids wear the title. Why? Because the Seljuks did not have dominion over Mecca. Finally, the Ottomans did not call themselves Caliph, did not have the authority to call themselves Caliph, until they first had dominion over Mecca. In other words, Muslims have believed that what unifies them is the specter of a political empire called the Caliph, when, quite obviously, what truly unifies them is a political actor who has dominion over Mecca. It is Mecca, as I stated, which is the locus.

In the context of the modern nation-state, the centrality of Mecca to all Muslims has been the cause of immense trouble. It has meant, that whether Muslims like it or not, the House of Saud is now the presumptive leader of Islam. Why? Because they have dominion over Mecca. Out of respect, the balance of Muslims in the world cannot decry the House of Saud, for they are the “Guardians of The Two Holy Mosques.” The majority of the Muslim nations simply consent to the notion that the House of Saud is our presumptive leader and neither break away from its propaganda and disinformation, nor prevent its scholars from trampeling them under foot. The deep-seated respect for Mecca provides the House of Saud with religious legitimacy in the entire Muslim world, such that everything that comes from Saudi Arabia is considered to be the truest expression of Islam (even if it is clearly anti-Islamic). It is not Saudi oil which sells Wahhabi theology. It is the weight of Mecca which gives it gravity. Take away Mecca and the theology of regression follows suit.

Yet, as noted, it is virtually impossible to challenge those who control Mecca unless that challenge stems from Mecca. The Ottomans were the only rulers in the history of Islam who took Mecca from outside, and it was a stroke of luck. Otherwise, Mecca has always given itself over to another on its own. Abdul Wahhab, who launched the offensive to take Mecca back from the Ottomans was an Arabian. The House of Saud, which finished what Wahhab started, was Arabian. This means that unless the House of Saud fails internally, or if it voluntarily abdicates, Mecca will belong solely to the Saudi, and that means that the Saudi influence over the world will have no reason to recede. This is the challenge of the nation-state. The pre-nation-state world was flexible. Boundaries shifted and lines could be redrawn and things if not conquered, could be purchased. Now, with lines that can’t be erased, and nations that cannot be disunited, and embassies that are profligate, and passports that must be issued, and a little thing called citizenship, things are different. There can be no challenge to the dyad that the House of Saud and Mecca have become.

That is not to say there are no challengers. Mecca is the beloved. It always induced lovers. However, given the fact that it is impossible in the nation-state world to fight on the basis of “Islam” Muslims now fight over Mecca in subtler, proxy ways. Iran, which itself wishes to have some claim to theological legitimacy, tries to do an end-around the entire problem by trying to locate its temporal authority in Jerusalem (which alas, is only the third holiest city). We have seen what comes out of such jockeying for religious legitimacy: Iran supports Hizbollah and Hamas in order to off-set the theological weight that Saudi Arabia can throw around. It may be hard for those in the West to believe this, but Muslims care first and foremost about their religion and their relationship to the holy places of their faith.

They care about the rest of the world only after that. In other words, the reason that Iran exceeds all other nations in its anti-Israeli zeal is because unlike the rest of the Muslim world it cannot sit placidly on the idea that it does not have dominion over Mecca. All other Muslim nations — Egypt, Pakistan, Indonesia, have recognized how the modern nation-state model inhibits them from ever being the leaders of Islam (by having dominion over Mecca) and thus aim simply to have good relations with the House of Saud.

However, things have to change. The stranglehold of the House of Saud has to be lessened in some non-violent way. Iran cannot be allowed to wage its pursuit of Mecca by using the Palestinians as its pawns. Wahhabi literature, stamped from Mecca, (especially that disingenous “Noble Quran” translation), cannot be permitted to be the standard bearer of Islamic Theology. An internal Saudi revolution is not imminent. Even if it was, it would bring with it an even more jihadist theology. We have seen the status-quo and we have recognized that it is horrid. Yet, what is the solution? There will be no alliance of Sunni nations who will conspire against the House of Saud with the assistance of a Western state. Destroying Mecca outright is out of the question, and throwing weight behind Iran does not seem like a viable option gives its own schizophrenic tendencies and repressive mullocracy. We do not want to take Mecca from the Hanbali theologian and hand it over to the Jafari. Yet, we know that things have to change.

The only possible solution is for a collection of Muslim nation-states to begin a movement using international legal remedies and diplomacy to make Mecca (and Medina) either independent nation-states unto themselves (as is the Vatican), or to have them rendered international protectorates, the task of their protection and maintainance falling upon the Muslim world jointly. Mecca and Medina will never be short of funds: the close to 3 million pilgrims a year will assure that. Nor will it need protective forces because there is no threat of invasion. However, the question today is not what Mecca needs, but what the Muslim needs. More than anything, the Muslim needs a Mecca that belongs to everyone equally. Only when Mecca belongs to all can Muslims say that Islam belongs to all. Only when Islam belongs to all will Muslims be able to say that the best Islam is the Islam that is most righteous instead of having to concede that the Saudi Islam is the best because it bears the authority of Mecca. I am certain that when Muslims compete over which Islam is most righteous as opposed to which Islam is most Arabian, the Muslim world will shake off its regressive theologies and advance. The Muslim world has tools which can effectuate this change. The Organization of Islamic Countries (OIC) is a 55 nation consortium with nothing to do. It can be tasked with the administrative authority over Mecca. The House of Saud can be compensated generously for having consented to such gracious sharing. And yet, Muslims, by having a Mecca that is no longer identified by its ethnicity, but by its religion, can all compete to become better Muslims, as opposed to competing to become the pawns of Saud.

We need one able Muslim leader to start agitating for a free Mecca (and Medina). Separate Mecca from the House of Saud and immediately Islam acquires a central authority. Certainly arguments will take place as to whose vision of Islam ought dominate Mecca. Certainly the richer Muslim nations will exert more influence over Mecca. Certainly everyone will wish to wear the honor of being the primary ruler of the Kaba. However, there is an anecdote from the life of Muhammad which provides a solution to all of these concerns. While Muhammad was still a youth, and prior to his ministry, a great argument broke out amongst the leaders of Mecca. Apparently the Kaba was flooded and had to be repaired. After all the repairs had taken place, only one stone needed to be replaced. Each tribal leader wished to have the honor of being the one to carry that stone. Muhammad was called for to provide a way to end the disagreement. He suggested that instead of fighting, the stone be placed in the middle of a wide sheet, and each of the tribal leaders carry one edge of the sheet to the Kaba, where he then planted the stone into the wall. It is something akin to thise that is proposed here with respect to Mecca. Let all Muslims carry it together and we will have no more need of a Caliphate and can live satisfactorily within our nations. This is the most imperative step in the opening up of Islam. Muhammad intended that Mecca belong to all. Mecca is not a monopoly.

Mecca is not a Monopoly – Ali Eteraz
 
Is this really the biggest issue facing Muslim countries today?

We have a lot of holy sites spread all over the place: Mecca, Medina, Bayt-ul-Muqaddas, Najaf, Karbala, ...
 
A map with how the new "Islamic Sacred State" will look like. Please note that this state also includes Medina. This is more appropriate as Medina is the second most important place for Muslims and also should be run by all Muslims. Not just Saudi Royalty.

2lsfhoo.jpg


Is this really the biggest issue facing Muslim countries today?

We have a lot of holy sites spread all over the place: Mecca, Medina, Bayt-ul-Muqaddas, Najaf, Karbala, ...

Mecca is by far the most important one.... Also who said we can only post threads about the biggest issue only? That would basically mean this forum would only have one thread.


PS Please note BLACKEAGLE deleted his post in which he insulted Shias and said Shias would never be accepted as Muslims. This is mentality of many members here.
 

PS Please note BLACKEAGLE deleted his post in which he insulted Shias and said Shias would never be accepted as Muslims. This is mentality of many members here.

Better late than never? Its a good thing he deleted it on his own. This understanding should go through all Muslims to be united no matter which sect they belong to.
 
A map with how the new "Islamic Sacred State" will look like. Please note that this state also includes Medina. This is more appropriate as Medina is the second most important place for Muslims and also should be run by all Muslims. Not just Saudi Royalty.

2lsfhoo.jpg




Mecca is by far the most important one....

PS Please note BLACKEAGLE deleted his post in which he insulted Shias and said Shias would never be accepted as Muslims. This is mentality of many members here.

So, never ever think of those places. Never. They will be under Al-Saud rule. Believe me my friend, Al-Saud are the best you can get.
 
In this article, the author talks about a new Mecca and Medina. Run similarly to how the Vatican city state is run by Catholics. Independent of regular country's whims and policies. A very good idea in my opinion.

Mecca & Medina – New Independent Vatican City
I’ve always hated Saudi Arabia, not the country, or the ordinary people, but the Kingdom. With all the revolutions taking place in the Middle East & North Africa – I wish change would occur in Saudi Arabia.

Muslims all over the world need to protest and demand that Mecca & Medina are split apart from Saudi Arabia, they will become one Independent state, just like the Vatican City, while Saudi Arabia will be an Independent Kingdom on its own.

It will not be run by anyone with a particular political position. This holy independent state will be voted on a new name, the whole Ummah will agree upon. People from all Islamic states, will nominate their most righteous, honest and honorable people who will work together to run the city.

Any Muslim can enter this city, provided their tawheed is correct and they have not committed any shirk (associating partner’s with Allah, which is the biggest of sins).

The money coming from the city’s economy will ensure the holy city is well maintained, pay employees salaries etc and the rest of the money will go into a box which will work to help needy Muslims and provide funds for those who are under famine or natural disaster catastrophe.

If Muslims push for this change, believe me the world for Muslims and Islam will be much better. Political prisoners can perform hajj and it won’t be those Saudi bastards running the show. Everything will belong to Muslims and there won’t be any bad judgments done.

I wrote this post out of two reasons.

1.) The whole media fiasco about the crown prince passing away and having 100 political leaders come and visit him. He was homosexual who molested young boys according to an Arabic Newspaper… If homosexuality is haram (forbidden in Islam) and subjected to a death penalty why should all these people pray this pervert ends up in heaven? Even if he did repent, could he ever heal the pain of those young boys he molested? That is impossible to do under any circumstance.

2.) The new crown prince who is responsible for torturing people in prisons brutally. If his hands are covered in blood, why should he be elected crown prince?

http://sarahchronicle.wordpress.com/2011/10/28/mecca-medina-new-independent-vatican-city/

So, never ever think of those places. Never. They will be under Al-Saud rule. Believe me my friend, Al-Saud are the best you can get.

More anti-Shia blubbering. Also I am not your friend.
 
No need. The Arabs are doing the job just fine.

Just fine? Then maybe you haven't heard of the Saudi regime's destruction of many historically important Islamic monuments. All around Mecca and Medina. This article from the independent explains it better then I can:

The Destruction Of Mecca
Saudi Hardliners Wiping Out Their Own Heritage

Almost all of the rich and multi-layered history of the holy city is gone. The Washington-based Gulf Institute estimates that 95 per cent of millennium-old buildings have been demolished in the past two decades.

Now the actual birthplace of the Prophet Mohamed is facing the bulldozers, with the connivance of Saudi religious authorities whose hardline interpretation of Islam is compelling them to wipe out their own heritage.

It is the same oil-rich orthodoxy that pumped money into the Taliban as they prepared to detonate the Bamiyan buddhas in 2000. And the same doctrine - violently opposed to all forms of idolatry - that this week decreed that the Saudis' own king be buried in an unmarked desert grave.

A Saudi architect, Sami Angawi, who is an acknowledged specialist on the region's Islamic architecture, told The Independent that the final farewell to Mecca is imminent: "What we are witnessing are the last days of Mecca and Medina."

According to Dr Angawi - who has dedicated his life to preserving Islam's two holiest cities - as few as 20 structures are left that date back to the lifetime of the Prophet 1,400 years ago and those that remain could be bulldozed at any time. "This is the end of history in Mecca and Medina and the end of their future," said Dr Angawi.

Mecca is the most visited pilgrimage site in the world. It is home to the Grand Mosque and, along with the nearby city of Medina which houses the Prophet's tomb, receives four million people annually as they undertake the Islamic duty of the Haj and Umra pilgrimages.

The driving force behind the demolition campaign that has transformed these cities is Wahhabism. This, the austere state faith of Saudi Arabia, was imported by the al-Saud tribal chieftains when they conquered the region in the 1920s.

The motive behind the destruction is the Wahhabists' fanatical fear that places of historical and religious interest could give rise to idolatry or polytheism, the worship of multiple and potentially equal gods.

As John R. Bradley notes in his new book Saudi Arabia Exposed, the practice of idolatry in the kingdom remains, in principle at least, punishable by beheading. And Bradley also points out this same literalism mandates that advertising posters can and need to be altered. The walls of Jeddah are adorned with ads featuring people missing an eye or with a foot painted over. These "deliberate imperfections" are the most glaring sign of an orthodoxy that tolerates nothing which fosters adulation of the graven image. Nothing can, or can be seen to, interfere with a person's devotion to Allah.

"At the root of the problem is Wahhabism," says Dr Angawi. " They have a big complex about idolatry and anything that relates to the Prophet."

The Wahhabists now have the birthplace of the Prophet in their sights. The site survived redevelopment early in the reign of King Abdul al-Aziz ibn Saud 50 years ago when the architect for a library there persuaded the absolute ruler to allow him to keep the remains under the new structure. That concession is under threat after Saudi authorities approved plans to "update" the library with a new structure that would concrete over the existing foundations and their priceless remains.

Dr Angawi is the descendant of a respected merchant family in Jeddah and a leading figure in the Hijaz - a swath of the kingdom that includes the holy cities and runs from the mountains bordering Yemen in the south to the northern shores of the Red Sea and the frontier with Jordan. He established the Haj Research Centre two decades ago to preserve the rich history of Mecca and Medina. Yet it has largely been a doomed effort. He says that the bulldozers could come "at any time" and the Prophet's birthplace would be gone in a single night.

He is not alone in his concerns. The Gulf Institute, an independent news-gathering group, has publicised what it says is a fatwa, issued by the senior Saudi council of religious scholars in 1994, stating that preserving historical sites "could lead to polytheism and idolatry".

Ali al-Ahmed, the head of the organisation, formerly known as the Saudi Institute, said: "The destruction of Islamic landmarks in Hijaz is the largest in history, and worse than the desecration of the Koran."

Most of the buildings have suffered the same fate as the house of Ali-Oraid, the grandson of the Prophet, which was identified and excavated by Dr Angawi. After its discovery, King Fahd ordered that it be bulldozed before it could become a pilgrimage site.

"The bulldozer is there and they take only two hours to destroy everything. It has no sensitivity to history. It digs down to the bedrock and then the concrete is poured in," he said.

Similarly, finds by a Lebanese professor, Kamal Salibi, which indicated that once-Jewish villages in what is now Saudi Arabia might have been the location of scenes from the Bible, prompted the bulldozers to be sent in. All traces were destroyed.

This depressing pattern of excavation and demolition has led Dr Angawi and his colleagues to keep secret a number of locations in the holy cities that could date back as far as the time of Abraham.

The ruling House of Saud has been bound to Wahhabism since the religious reformer Mohamed Ibn abdul-Wahab signed a pact with Mohammed bin Saud in 1744. The combination of the al-Saud clan and Wahhab's warrior zealots became the foundation of the modern state. The House of Saud received its wealth and power and the hardline clerics got the state backing that would enable them in the decades to come to promote their Wahhabist ideology across the globe.

On the tailcoats of the religious zealots have come commercial developers keen to fill the historic void left by demolitions with lucrative high-rises.

"The man-made history of Mecca has gone and now the Mecca that God made is going as well." Says Dr Angawi. "The projects that are coming up are going to finish them historically, architecturally and environmentally," he said.

With the annual pilgrimage expected to increase five-fold to 20 million in the coming years as Saudi authorities relax entry controls, estate agencies are seeing a chance to cash in on huge demand for accommodation.

"The infrastructure at the moment cannot cope. New hotels, apartments and services are badly needed," the director of a leading Saudi estate agency told Reuters.

Despite an estimated $13bn in development cash currently washing around Mecca, Saudi sceptics dismiss the developers' argument. "The service of pilgrims is not the goal really," says Mr Ahmed. "If they were concerned for the pilgrims, they would have built a railroad between Mecca and Jeddah, and Mecca and Medina. They are removing any historical landmark that is not Saudi-Wahhabi, and using the prime location to make money," he says.

Dominating these new developments is the Jabal Omar scheme which will feature two 50-storey hotel towers and seven 35-storey apartment blocks - all within a stone's throw of the Grand Mosque.

Dr Angawi said: "Mecca should be the reflection of the multicultural Muslim world, not a concrete parking lot."

Whereas proposals for high-rise developments in Jerusalem have prompted a worldwide outcry and the Taliban's demolition of the Bamiyan buddhas was condemned by Unicef, Mecca's busy bulldozers have barely raised a whisper of protest.

"The house where the Prophet received the word of God is gone and nobody cares," says Dr Angawi. "I don't want trouble. I just want this to stop."

The destruction of Mecca: Saudi hardliners are wiping out their own heritage - Middle East - World - The Independent
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom