Making the case for a global ban on privately-owned personal transport cars and two-wheelers

[Enigma SIG]

WFH, and use online e-commerce. Never step out of your house again.

 

[VCheng]

bhai i go every other day to places where there is no road even . i like to drive in desert/far away natural sandy beaches/jungles . i love it to do alone . how can i go there then ?

Obviously, we need to fund the development of the Star Trek Transporter teleporter technology. It will make all the present day transportation devices totally obsolete.

 

[RangeMaster]

But don't the hundreds of millions of private citizens in India, Pakistan and Bangladesh collectively have the money to buy personal cars and two-wheelers ? That money is at some level the nation's money. Compared to the military budgets of India and Pakistan it would be not a major thing for the governments to purchase a huge number of 40-seater buses and taxis.

Govts not just have to buy public buses but will have to build paved roads to every small village and settlement. Additional expanses of running, maintaining them because they will have to work 24/7.

65-70% of South Asia population lives in villages. Unlike cities they don't have to commute to work or attend universities/colleges everyday. Their kids are already settled in cities for work or education. So these buses will travel empty most of the time.

Making this idea work in Saudia is a different thing considering $$

 

[Sinnerman108]

I have often made this topic in posts so I thought why not create a thread for this for discussion and readership.

Privately-owned personal transport vehicles ( cars and two-wheelers ) are I believe the biggest form of pollution in the world, directly through their usage and secondarily through their production. This is multiplied by the many manufacturers producing multiple models per year. The hundreds of millions of middle class people in the world, especially in relatively newly "liberalized" and Capitalist India and China, are exhorted through media campaigns and word-of-mouth to buy the latest vehicle model. To purchase these vehicles the middle class and others indulge in a lifestyle that is polluting and not in harmony with Nature and idealized society. Even the supposedly Nature-friendly electric vehicles like Tesla are no good. So these vehicles not only lead to pollution but also to needless accidents, crime ( including "anti-social behavior" ), chaos and general disharmony. Ask me, who comes from India where all these factors are in extreme.

The simple solution for intra-city travel would be therefore to ban all privately-owned personal transports and replace them with 40-passenger buses and six-passenger taxis ( with sufficient luggage space ) that have been more in number and efficiency. Though privately-owned service vehicles ( food and grocery delivery vans, construction trucks etc ) can be owned. This idea itself is a fine idea and it has precedent too. The planned city called NEOM in Saudia will have no private cars and the planned district of Shezhen city in China called Net City will also have no private cars.

So what could be the form of the intra-city buses and taxis ? There is a good new development in vehicles called Cyclorotors which are aircraft that in modern form have electric motors attached to four hubs at the sides and the hubs have movable blades and when the hubs are spun the blades I think create a force that lift the aircraft and move it forward. The below vid was made known to me credit @Hamartia Antidote. It is a test vehicle from the Austrian company CycloTech and of course I think in full form the hubs will be enclosed with a mesh for safety :

Such a vehicle could not only be used for buses and taxis but also for police vehicles, ambulances and food and groceries delivery vehicles. The fuel for these vehicles can remain petrol which can power the electric motors until the time that new longlife battery technologies like the NDB or research into how the electric eel produces up to 860 volts with a power to stun or even kill crocodiles, do not come about. At 05:21 mins in the below vid there is a visualization of a Russian project called CycloCar which can carry six people or 600 kgs of cargo and has a range of 500 kms with a top speed of 250 kmph :

I think ground vehicles for most things are passe and the future is of the Cyclorotor. And there's no point holding two-yearly climate change conferences if the biggest source of pollution - privately-owned personal transport - is not banned.

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@fitpOsitive @Bilal9 @Indos @ps3linux others.

There are two things which are going to happen ... maybe i will be see them, maybe not.
a. Vehicle ownership and the whole concept of transportation will be changed.
b. Currency will be made obsolete; and it will exist only electronically ( Not digital currency like Bitcoin).

 

[jamahir]

I will reply to all tomorrow.

 

[-=virus=-]

Well, the Delhi metro as also the other hurriedly constructed metro systems in India in the last decade are unnecessary and unscientific complications ( with separately built infrastructure and wastage of resources ) on top of the already existing chaos in the country.

You have no idea what you're talking about. The DMRC, spl under Mr E.Sreedharan did a phenomenal job with that monster of a project and made sure people were not inconvenienced as this monster grew it's tentacles all over Delhi and it's a super cheap and convenient way to get around. Bombay and the rest have not been handled that well though.

The government could very simply have abolished privately-owned personal cars and two-wheelers and increased the number and efficiency of of public buses and taxis which would be running on the same old roads. No need for the new, separate infrastructure like for metro. But unfortunately scientific thinking is not present in India whether for transport or for neighborhood construction or food production or employment.

lol

are you insane ? are you suggesting a notebandhi like carbandhi, overnight ? without any good infra in place ? do you have any idea how much money we'll lose if all private car manufacturers were suddenly shot in the head, how many tens of millions will lose employment ?

try and take you seriously, and then you sprout out gems like these.

 

[CatSultan]

You might be able to do this in small countries where public transport is good. But here in America we have huge open spaces between cities. Making a good public transport system for the entire country would be impossible. Also if you ban private transport you would have to reimburse everyone for their vehicles. And it goes against our right to commute however we want.

 

[jamahir]

Govts not just have to buy public buses but will have to build paved roads to every small village and settlement.

1. Isn't all that generally present even now ?

2. In the OP I am talking about the buses being 30-passenger cyclorotor aircraft whose inter-city variants can have luggage space, toilet room and kitchen too ( these last two I have watched of a report about an inter-city bus service in Pakistan ). Aircraft don't require roads.

Additional expanses of running, maintaining them because they will have to work 24/7.

Well, within a city the buses and taxis will have to run if the government wants to provide proper service to the citizens.

65-70% of South Asia population lives in villages. Unlike cities they don't have to commute to work or attend universities/colleges everyday. Their kids are already settled in cities for work or education. So these buses will travel empty most of the time.

Even now buses and trains from cities to other cities or to villages run half-empty many a time.

Making this idea work in Saudia is a different thing considering $$

India for at least a decade has been the second-largest importer of armaments in the world. If the Indian government can do that, if the Pakistan government can spend huge monies annually on maintaining a big military, if the American government can spend 934 billion dollars as the military budget just for 2020-21 ( ! ) then these countries surely can connect up the cities and villages with buses and taxis, yes ?

You have no idea what you're talking about. The DMRC, spl under Mr E.Sreedharan did a phenomenal job with that monster of a project and made sure people were not inconvenienced as this monster grew it's tentacles all over Delhi and it's a super cheap and convenient way to get around. Bombay and the rest have not been handled that well though.

Sreedharan was a deep specialist and not a system-level thinker hence he did what he was told and what he was told was not a scientific and harmonious plan. Hence there is also the fact of his unwise political choice of not associating with the Communists or the Congress or the TMC or the AAP.

lol

are you insane ? are you suggesting a notebandhi like carbandhi, overnight ? without any good infra in place ? do you have any idea how much money we'll lose if all private car manufacturers were suddenly shot in the head, how many tens of millions will lose employment ?

try and take you seriously, and then you sprout out gems like these.

1. I am suggesting that in all these years the government could have increased the number of buses and taxis that would run on petrol, same like the current vehicles. Why should this have required any special infra like the metro does ? Those increased buses and taxis would have run on the same roads as of now.

2. Why couldn't the government have recruited say the Tata group to produce six-seater taxis with ample luggage space and 40-seater buses ? Doesn't Tata produce vehicles even now ? As for the rest of the car companies they would have had to reconfigure to a more useful product output like producing 3D Printing machines or own a chain of Vertical Farms in every city. The government could have assisted these companies. The workers could have been retrained. The secondarily employed people would not have been much affected.

The above two points is "What could have been". In the OP I am also talking about the cyclorotor aircraft-based buses and taxis.

There are two things which are going to happen ... maybe i will be see them, maybe not.
a. Vehicle ownership and the whole concept of transportation will be changed.

Indeed, that is what I have written in the OP. And you will surely see the change.

b. Currency will be made obsolete; and it will exist only electronically ( Not digital currency like Bitcoin).

1. Well, the whole concept of money will change and become a half-Communist one - one of the desires of Communism being complete abolishment of money. In this thread of mine I have proposed a new socio-economic system that partly derives from past Socialist systems but also manages to abolish economic classes ( rich, middle, poor ) but I acknowledge that despite simplifying technological advances like 3D Printing, Vertical Farms and lab-grown meat it is currently not possible to make everything economically free. Other than the linked thread please also read this post about banking in such a new system. You will see that the currency is an electronic one.

2. Bitcoin is a fraud, nothing different than the US Dollar or the Euro or the Rupees and it operates within the socio-economic environment maintained by the Capitalist system in much of the world.

Obviously, we need to fund the development of the Star Trek Transporter teleporter technology. It will make all the present day transportation devices totally obsolete.

Until a teleporter comes about there is the new development of the cyclorotor aircraft for passengers and conventional winged aircraft for cargo.

WFH, and use online e-commerce. Never step out of your house again.

1. WFH is good for some sectors.

2. Online e-commerce my family uses to get the monthly or two-monthly groceries delivered to our house. And to have delivered the Sunday lunch, some electronics goods etc.

3. "Never step out" : What if you want to meet a friend at a tea house or want to buy a book or like @Imran Khan want to go to the beach or the desert ?

On the other hand, we shouldn't be tied to low fares. Let the fares be realistic and self sustaining. It will cause initial hardship for poorer people, but eventually things adjust.

North Korea I believe has public transportation either free or at very low cost. In India too intra-city bus service and also inter-city train service for some routes are at low fares.

It is sick that CEOs/VPs/Directors take home millions in salaries and then want to deny Rs 1000 increase in transport allowance to their receptionist.

Agreed. It is injustice. Very feudalist and Capitalist. And in the company I hope to establish soon, like I had told you earlier, I will arrange so that all the workers, including me, are equal partners and will take home an equal salary.

bhai i go every other day to places where there is no road even . i like to drive in desert/far away natural sandy beaches/jungles . i love it to do alone . how can i go there then ?

The money you spend on petrol for your car and maintaining it can be spent on hiring a taxi ( a jeep even ) that you yourself will drive alone, if such a thing can be arranged, and you can do it two times a week or once a week to make your trip and memories more wonderful.

Brother i am being mean here. I am crazy about these machines. This is my only hobby left.

Riding specially biking is way much fun and helps u to keep a good active social life.

Is being part of a biking club the only way to have a social life ? You can go to tea houses to meet your friends or go to bookshops where you can meet people ( including female people ). You can join a progressive movement which will also enable positive contribution to society.

About motorbikes please see my posts in a previous post in this thread and a similar post by another member here.

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Nice pictures.

Agree. Total ban is neither possible nor desirable. In smaller towns and semi rural areas, places are far apart and buses are infrequent. One can't keep waiting at a desolate place on the road for hours for a bus to arrive or to even be stranded late at night. Rural areas do not suffer from so much congestion either. It is the cities which have the biggest problem.

About 24/7 or regular service within cities and to far-flung areas please read above in this reply.

Moreover we can't kill an entire industry that employs so many people directly and indirectly.

Please read above in this post.

Solutions to congestion and pollution can co-exist with private vehicle ownership IMHO

No, privately-owned personal transport is the primary cause of congestion and pollution and also enables crime, accidents, disharmony and general chaos.

Delusional and non realistic imaginations. Its a dumb idea that will do more harm then good.
Can u imagine the sheer size of public transport required for a country like india if u ban private owned vehicles? The manufacturing and operations of such a massive fleet wont affect environment? Also what about 24/7 service and what about far flung areas? Commies are mostly delusional and no wonder they failed miserably.

1. In India every state has its own 'State road transport corporation' managed by the government and provides bus service between cities and many times between cities and villages.

2. I have mentioned before that the secondary environmental effect manufacturing millions of cars and two-wheelers meant for personal transport ownership is huge and that it is better for thousands of buses and taxis to exist than for hundreds of millions of cars and two-wheelers.

3. About 24/7 service within cities and to far-flung areas please read above in this reply.

 

[jamahir]

You might be able to do this in small countries where public transport is good. But here in America we have huge open spaces between cities. Making a good public transport system for the entire country would be impossible.

I know America is a huge country with huge open spaces between cities but if the American government can spend 934 billion dollars as the military budget just for 2020-21 it can easily spend that money and a lot more for providing cyclorotor-based 40-seater buses and taxis within cities and between, and for free.

And please read my previous post.

Also if you ban private transport you would have to reimburse everyone for their vehicles.

Why ?

And it goes against our right to commute however we want.

So it is proper for an American to demand the right to commute wherever he wants but he doesn't want to demand with the government to provide him with the basic human rights to free housing, free basic food, free healthcare, free education etc ?

 

[RealNapster]

I am also of the Idea that cities only have Public transport while Private cars should only be allowed to those persons who


1. Belong to an important trade that require quick reaction e.g Doctor, Professors, rescue etc.

2. Pay heavy taxes on car, fuel, road tax, Heavy Parking fees and carbon tax. While annually check car health.

3. Need to increase fines atleast 10x from current ones. Not wearing Helmet only get you Rs 500 fine. This is 3 dollars. This should be atleast 5000 PKR.


We should not be banning private cars, we need to 1) give people good alternative which require huge investments in public transport. 2) make it expensive like hell for people to own a car.

 

[Chhatrapati]

I'd rather not sit with strangers in a car or bus these days. But when things are settled public transport should be encouraged without any radical ideas like "BAN". Or we can talk about decongesting cities. We don't need more metro rails and buses, we need more cities.
In India up North, there are hardly many cities that could absorb the population and the result is we have congested and polluted Delhi. There are no Major cities in Bihar, West Bengal and UP despite the population. All cities are around NCR if any. At least a Chandigarh model planned city is viable in UP.

 

[VCheng]

Until a teleporter comes about there is the new development of the cyclorotor aircraft for passengers and conventional winged aircraft for cargo.

Right. People who cannot even drive or ride properly will be able to fly cyclorotors properly and there will be no crashes over populated areas.

 

[jamahir]

Right. People who cannot even drive or ride properly will be able to fly cyclorotors properly and there will be no crashes over populated areas.

1. The main objective of the OP is to call for a ban on privately-owned personal transport vehicles so right there we have a situation where only a few will be allowed to pilot the cyclorotors.

2. In post# 7 I said this :

You have a good point so that is why I suggest [ cyclorotor] buses and taxis that are piloted by trained people just like now public bus drivers are now. They would need just more training. And of course there would be rules governing flying lanes for safety and privacy. And computerized vehicle-to-vehicle communication and control which will further enable safety.

Additionally, most times the cyclorotor 30-passenger buses and six-passenger taxis should fly only about ten feet off the ground.

I'd rather not sit with strangers in a car or bus these days.

Even cinemas have opened now, good ones like PVR which follow COVID protocols like making wearing being compulsory by the viewing public, disinfection of the hall after every show, social distancing and I suppose also foot-operated disinfectant dispenser for the viewing public.

In buses the service providers should ensure social distancing between passengers even if the bus runs at half capacity, then the passengers to wear masks and then disinfection at the depots which is easier by using ultraviolet lamp cleaners.

But when things are settled public transport should be encouraged without any radical ideas like "BAN".

No, a ban is necessary. Please read through the thread again.

Or we can talk about decongesting cities. We don't need more metro rails and buses, we need more cities.
In India up North, there are hardly many cities that could absorb the population and the result is we have congested and polluted Delhi. There are no Major cities in Bihar, West Bengal and UP despite the population. All cities are around NCR if any. At least a Chandigarh model planned city is viable in UP.

Yes, I have written of this before many times. What we need are satellite townships which are built scientifically and aesthetically, to enable harmonious living and to prevent crime and chaos, all this written into the townships' DNA. Nicely built neighborhoods which have 100x80 foot house plots which have a compulsory garden, a tree ( say lemon ), a comfortable cat house and the main house itself being max two storey. Wide roads which can be places to stand in case of earthquake. Four house plots for every length of road. There should be multiple Vertical Farms in every neighborhood. One shop for groceries, vegetables and processed food items with most of the vegetables coming from the neighborhood's Vertical Farms. WiFi point on every road. A reasonably large clinic. One 3D Printing shop for every three neighborhoods. A nicely built shopping district with malls that include a cinema hall set. The people employed in these Vertical Farms and general Urban Farms, security, maintenance and other high-tech industry. The work places and the shopping and recreation buildings and areas built not in ugly modern glass-facade but in aesthetic and harmonious Greco-Roman and Islamic architecture. Fountains. Multiple general hospitals with specialized treatment too. Educational institutions which have cross-disciplinary teaching. And yes, the township shouldn't have dogs and in keeping with this thread's theme no privately-owned personal transport vehicles but instead have 30-passenger cyclorotor buses and six-passenger cyclorotor taxis. There should be cyclorotor-based ambulances which can carry at least three patients with reasonable health systems and cyclorotor-based police vehicles.

Now we can further discuss what socio-economic and political system the new townships should have.

I am also of the Idea that cities only have Public transport while Private cars should only be allowed to those persons who


1. Belong to an important trade that require quick reaction e.g Doctor, Professors, rescue etc.

2. Pay heavy taxes on car, fuel, road tax, Heavy Parking fees and carbon tax. While annually check car health.

3. Need to increase fines atleast 10x from current ones. Not wearing Helmet only get you Rs 500 fine. This is 3 dollars. This should be atleast 5000 PKR.


We should not be banning private cars, we need to 1) give people good alternative which require huge investments in public transport. 2) make it expensive like hell for people to own a car.

I have to go out now to get bread but I will just say here that about the doctor please read above in this post and about the other things please go through the thread again for my replies - the answers are there.

 

[VCheng]

1. The main objective of the OP is to call for a ban on privately-owned personal transport vehicles so right there we have a situation where only a few will be allowed to pilot the cyclorotors.

Isn't it ironic that communist ideals always create a select cadre of elites exempt from what they impose on the proletariat?

 

[jamahir]

Isn't it ironic that communist ideals always create a select cadre of elites exempt from what they impose on the proletariat?

In non-Communist America does everyone pilot buses, trains and planes or is it the few trained people ?