Making of Super Tejas

[AMCA]

YF-23 copy paste

I am already liking this!! And YF 23 Is a copy of Canberra?

 

[My-Analogous]

I am already liking this!! And YF 23 Is a copy of Canberra?

WAWoo, You are genius and you are definitely an Indian. Please enlighten us the similarity between 1st gen and 5th gen. I am waiting and trust me many more. I think your next match will be Martin XB-51

 

[AMCA]

WAWoo, You are genius and you are definitely an Indian. Please enlighten us the similarity between 1st gen and 5th gen. I am waiting and trust me many more. I think your next match will be Martin XB-51

Sure I can, only if you could explain to me what’s same about YF23 and AMCA apart from the wings which as you might have by now noticed even Canberra has.

The selected model is among 9 different designs tested and validated by Indian engineers in India. If we had to just copy paste why do you think we designed and tested the others?

You are definitely a Pakistani!!

 

[Ultima Thule]

Oh Come on . Prove it or Shhhh !! I can keep ranting the same way about how JF-17 is a Russian design. The Junk Fighter that you have is nothing short of a half cooked meal that killed one of your rookies trapped in the canopy.
Can we play a game? I will list out whats indigenous about Tejas with Source, can you do the same for JF-17? Accept the challenge?

Lets bring to light about the so called R&D Pakistan has done on the machine.

In your Tej@$$ very few are indian components like mission computers composite structures AND some weapons, we can't deny this that JF-17 is based upon rejected MIG-33 but we (China+ PAKISTAN) did R&D to improve it for PAF specifications, Pakistan is mostly building a fuselage (NOSE CONE, WINGS, HORIZONTAL/VERTICAL TAIL SURFACES) and some of the avionics for it like RWR and some weapons like (GUIDED/UNGUIDED BOMBS) rest is China's responsibilities
here look of the foreign components on your Tej@$$ MK1

RADAR=ISRAELI (EL/M 2032)
FLY BY WIRE TECH= DEVELOP AND TESTED BY USA
ENGINE =USA
AVIONICS ISRAELI, FRENCH (HAD DOWN DISPLAY) AND SOME INDIAN (MISSION COMPUTER)
HMD=ISRAELI
WEAPONS= FRANCE,RUSSIAN, ISREALI AND SOME INDIAN (ASTRA AND GUIDED AND UNGUIDED BOMBS)
SO THINK LOGICALLY @AMCA

 

[MimophantSlayer]

In your Tej@$$ very few are indian components like mission computers composite structures AND some weapons, we can't deny this that JF-17 is based upon rejected MIG-33 but we (China+ PAKISTAN) did R&D to improve it for PAF specifications, Pakistan is mostly building a fuselage (NOSE CONE, WINGS, HORIZONTAL/VERTICAL TAIL SURFACES) and some of the avionics for it like RWR and some weapons like (GUIDED/UNGUIDED BOMBS) rest is China's responsibilities
here look of the foreign components on your Tej@$$ MK1

RADAR=ISRAELI (EL/M 2032)
FLY BY WIRE TECH= DEVELOP AND TESTED BY USA
ENGINE =USA
AVIONICS ISRAELI, FRENCH (HAD DOWN DISPLAY) AND SOME INDIAN (MISSION COMPUTER)
HMD=ISRAELI
WEAPONS= FRANCE,RUSSIAN, ISREALI AND SOME INDIAN (ASTRA AND GUIDED AND UNGUIDED BOMBS)
SO THINK LOGICALLY @AMCA

Why do you fanboys always resort to the same old rhetoric even after it has been disproven countless number of times?

It's not like it ceases to be nonsense the second time you repeat it. What are you hoping for, that we won't call you on your bs?

Firstly, out of total 344 LRUs in Tejas, a total of 210 LRUs are being made in India, these numbers pakistan can't hope to achieve.
Again, whatever work we do and are doing in Tejas be it R&D or use of any other Indian subsystem, it is more than whatever pakistan has done in JF-17, that's just fact.

Secondly, what R&D work has pakistan done in JFT? What facilities do you have for even doing the said R&D work?
Let's not kid ourselves.

You make barely half of the aerostructure in pak whereas we make nearly all of it in India.

As for the imported content.
Seriously? Pakistan makes none of those for JF-17 either.
Where do you get off deriding us for subsystems you yourselves don't make or even are planning to make.
And the current RSS quadruplex FBW is made wholly in India not USA, also back in 2014 itself 80% of the avionics in Tejas was Indian. So lets not conflate your preconceived notions with actual facts.

 

[Ultima Thule]

Why do you fanboys always resort to the same old rhetoric even after it has been disproven countless number of times?

It's not like it ceases to be nonsense the second time you repeat it. What are you hoping for, that we won't call you on your bs?

Firstly, out of total 344 LRUs in Tejas, a total of 210 LRUs are being made in India, these numbers pakistan can't hope to achieve.
Again, whatever work we do and are doing in Tejas be it R&D or use of any other Indian subsystem, it is more than whatever pakistan has done in JF-17, that's just fact.

Secondly, what R&D work has pakistan done in JFT? What facilities do you have for even doing the said R&D work?
Let's not kid ourselves.

You make barely half of the aerostructure in pak whereas we make nearly all of it in India.

As for the imported content.
Seriously? Pakistan makes none of those for JF-17 either.
Where do you get off deriding us for subsystems you yourselves don't make or even are planning to make.
And the current RSS quadruplex FBW is made wholly in India not USA, also back in 2014 itself 80% of the avionics in Tejas was Indian. So lets not conflate your preconceived notions with actual facts.

what is avionics in your Tej@$$ acutally indian made except of mission computer kindly post the links, pakistani airforce aerodynamic engineers teams went to China to do Joint R&D work, we import CNC and other sensitive machine to manufacture the nose cone and other fuselage components at Kamra, and we are learning phase of aviation tech/industry, more or less your raptor of the universe Tej@$$ has a main system from west/USA like Engine, radar, avionics, weapons etc etc, you only design composite structure and mission computer, in Tej@$$ head down displays is french, HMD is israeli, EW, ECCM and other EW system is also comes from israel, so your INDIGENOUS claims is ridiculous @cyclops as for fly by wire develop and tested by USA in mid 90s on F-16 VISTA than you improve that system after you get sanctions that my point @cyclops
JAY shupa dupa powa HIND since 2012 @cyclops

 

[AMCA]

In your Tej@$$ very few are indian components like mission computers composite structures AND some weapons, we can't deny this that JF-17 is based upon rejected MIG-33 but we (China+ PAKISTAN) did R&D to improve it for PAF specifications, Pakistan is mostly building a fuselage (NOSE CONE, WINGS, HORIZONTAL/VERTICAL TAIL SURFACES) and some of the avionics for it like RWR and some weapons like (GUIDED/UNGUIDED BOMBS) rest is China's responsibilities
here look of the foreign components on your Tej@$$ MK1

RADAR=ISRAELI (EL/M 2032)
FLY BY WIRE TECH= DEVELOP AND TESTED BY USA
ENGINE =USA
AVIONICS ISRAELI, FRENCH (HAD DOWN DISPLAY) AND SOME INDIAN (MISSION COMPUTER)
HMD=ISRAELI
WEAPONS= FRANCE,RUSSIAN, ISREALI AND SOME INDIAN (ASTRA AND GUIDED AND UNGUIDED BOMBS)
SO THINK LOGICALLY @AMCA

Lol when you say R&D be specifi as to Pakistan ne kya ukhada hai

Things that you claim to make partially for JF-17 is being done fully in the workshops of our Private companies. We dont even consider Nose cone, wings and Tail surfaces a technology worth boasting off as thats the very basic if you are gonna make an aircraft and even in that Pakistan only makes around 55%. Now tell me what R&D did your puny country with a punier industrial base do with JF-17?

Radar - Its Hybrid. Which means, it is the combination of Indian Multi Mode Radar and Elta EL/M-2032. With a better range and power than Elta EL/M-2032.

FLY BY WIRE TECH - 200% indian with not a single screw sourced from abroad.

ENGINE - USA ( We still have Kavieri, what have you got? )

AVIONICS - Nothing has been imported except may be things that interact with the engine as its not Indian. Be it the electronic warefare suit or the head up display, its all Indian.

HMD - Its Israeli but driven by Indian OAC.

Weapons - We have the best of both.

Now something that might interest you is, The flight software for Tejas runs on the more robust and aviation capable Ada programmed by indian engineers in India while the JF-17 has been coded on the developer friendly C++ by China in China. This is to benefit Pakistan for its low availability of aviation software engineers.

The Control Laws and the total softare packge for LCA is Indian and we can upgrade it when ever we want how much ever we want, but pakistan has to be at the mercy of China(So much for the Join Venture effort eeeh? )

 

[Rajesh Singh]

Jf 17 is designed by Soviet union and developed and tested by china for Pakistan. Pakistan is financial partner with china and now doing manufacturing. So I don't see much technical achievement of Pakistan. Manufacturing work is doing by India from many years

 

[My-Analogous]

In your Tej@$$ very few are indian components like mission computers composite structures AND some weapons, we can't deny this that JF-17 is based upon rejected MIG-33 but we (China+ PAKISTAN) did R&D to improve it for PAF specifications, Pakistan is mostly building a fuselage (NOSE CONE, WINGS, HORIZONTAL/VERTICAL TAIL SURFACES) and some of the avionics for it like RWR and some weapons like (GUIDED/UNGUIDED BOMBS) rest is China's responsibilities
here look of the foreign components on your Tej@$$ MK1

RADAR=ISRAELI (EL/M 2032)
FLY BY WIRE TECH= DEVELOP AND TESTED BY USA
ENGINE =USA
AVIONICS ISRAELI, FRENCH (HAD DOWN DISPLAY) AND SOME INDIAN (MISSION COMPUTER)
HMD=ISRAELI
WEAPONS= FRANCE,RUSSIAN, ISREALI AND SOME INDIAN (ASTRA AND GUIDED AND UNGUIDED BOMBS)
SO THINK LOGICALLY @AMCA

Logic and any HAL product is to different things including AMCA

Jf 17 is designed by Soviet union and developed and tested by china for Pakistan. Pakistan is financial partner with china and now doing manufacturing. So I don't see much technical achievement of Pakistan. Manufacturing work is doing by India from many years

Do some research before post and PAF whole team were in China for input of this plane. Where is your source to prove that Pakistan was not involve in design phase?

 

[MimophantSlayer]

what is avionics in your Tej@$$ acutally indian made except of mission computer kindly post the links,

Maybe if you had first looked up the Tejas sticky you would not have had to ask.

pakistani airforce aerodynamic engineers teams went to China to do Joint R&D work, we import CNC and other sensitive machine to manufacture the nose cone and other fuselage components at Kamra, and we are learning phase of aviation tech/industry,

I think you mean aeronautical engineers.
And I've seen the video, nothing on it implies that pakistan is doing R&D. At most it's just integration work.

Also, how is it anywhere close to what we are doing?
Forget what we are doing now, this is the kind of R&D we were doing back in the early 2000s.

Making fighter aircrafts is no walk in the park, 100s of engineers and scientists are involved in the development of even the smallest of subsystems and you pakistanis think a handful of people sent to China for a short amount of time means you did "R&D"? That's just ridiculous.

At this point you are just shamelessly trying to mooch off of the work done by the chinese.

more or less your raptor of the universe Tej@$$ has a main system from west/USA like Engine, radar, avionics, weapons etc etc, you only design composite structure and mission computer, in Tej@$$ head down displays is french, HMD is israeli, EW, ECCM and other EW system is also comes from israel, so your INDIGENOUS claims is ridiculous

Again, all of these main systems in JF-17 too are as close to being pakistani as F-22 is pakistani. At the least we have these very subsystems currently underdevelopment and we will like always get it right eventually. Same can't be said for pakistan.

Also,you are wrong, the HUD is made by CSIO.
http://www.csio.res.in/images/stories/business/TA08092016/HeadUpDisplay.pdf

And the EW system is made by DARE.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-pc8vOLo5t...uilt+internal+EW+suite+for+Tejas+Mk1+MRCA.jpg

@cyclops as for fly by wire develop and tested by USA in mid 90s on F-16 VISTA than you improve that system after you get sanctions that my point @cyclops
JAY shupa dupa powa HIND since 2012 @cyclops

Your point is to scorn our achievements even when you yourselves don't have the monetary or the intellectual capacity to even attempt developing a fly by wire for a fighter aircraft.

".....tested by USA...."
You lot are really the most disingenuous.
Our engineers used the equipment and simulators of the Americans, USA didn't do it for us, unlike in your case our engineers were doing the work, all of which was withheld after the sanctions.

A FBW especially an all axis relaxed static stability aided FCS would require extensive testing in wind tunnels all new algorithms for flight control laws testing to be done in simulators, similar to the ones ADA scientists used in USA and facilities like those exist now in CSIR NAL where we have spent millions.
Refer to videos above.
That's what we did, in INDIA, the RSS quadruplex fbw wasn't available on day one.

Logic and any HAL product is to different things including AMCA

Technically HAL will not be involved with the production of AMCA, our private companies will.
Also, just so you know, HAL which makes the AL31FP engines and avionics for Su-30MKI has long since surpassed its original goal of 200 MKIs and is upto 240 right now.

Do some research before post and PAF whole team were in China for input of this plane. Where is your source to prove that Pakistan was not involve in design phase?

The burden of proof is on you to prove that pakistan was actually there during the initial design phase not on anyone else to disprove you lots' regularly recycled rhetoric.

 

[AMCA]

Do some research before post and PAF whole team were in China for input of this plane. Where is your source to prove that Pakistan was not involve in design phase?

Our source is your inability to provide a source of your design inputs. China designed it with assistance from Mikoyan.

I couldn’t find any source about Pakistan’s inputs. I am willing to correct myself provided you are willing to educate. Go ahead please.

 

[My-Analogous]

Maybe if you had first looked up the Tejas sticky you would not have had to ask.
View attachment 476807



I think you mean aeronautical engineers.
And I've seen the video, nothing on it implies that pakistan is doing R&D. At most it's just integration work.

Also, how is it anywhere close to what we are doing?
Forget what we are doing now, this is the kind of R&D we were doing back in the early 2000s.

Making fighter aircrafts is no walk in the park, a handful of people sent to China for a short amount of time doesn't mean you did R&D.

At this point you are just shamelessly trying to mooch off of the work done by the chinese.



Again, all of these main systems in JF-17 too are as close to being pakistani as F-22 is pakistani. At the least we have these very subsystems currently underdevelopment and we will like always get it right eventually. Same can't be said for pakistan.

Also,you are wrong, the HUD is made by CSIO.
http://www.csio.res.in/images/stories/business/TA08092016/HeadUpDisplay.pdf

And the EW system is made by DARE.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-pc8vOLo5t...uilt+internal+EW+suite+for+Tejas+Mk1+MRCA.jpg



Your point is to scorn our achievements even when you yourselves don't have the monetary or the intellectual capacity to even attempt developing a fly by wire for a fighter aircraft.

".....tested by USA...."
You lot are really the most disingenuous.
Our engineers used the equipment and simulators of the Americans, USA didn't do it for us, unlike in your case our engineers were doing the work, all of which was withheld after the sanctions.

A FBW especially an all axis relaxed static stability aided FCS would require extensive testing in wind tunnels all new algorithms for flight control laws testing to be done in simulators, similar to the ones ADA scientists used in USA and facilities like those exist now in CSIR NAL where we have spent millions.
Refer to videos above.
That's what we did, in INDIA, the RSS quadruplex fbw wasn't available on day one.



Technically HAL will not be involved with the production of AMCA, our private companies will.
Also, just so you know, HAL which makes the AL31FP engines and avionics for Su-30MKI has long since surpassed its original goal of 200 MKIs and is upto 240 right now.



The burden of proof is on you to prove that pakistan was actually there during the initial design phase not on anyone else to disprove you lots' regularly recycled rhetoric.

They are not making but assembling it, why you guys always twist the facts?. If India is manufacturing this engine then Kaveri was piece of cake to them. Stop this nonsense

Our source is your inability to provide a source of your design inputs. China designed it with assistance from Mikoyan.

I couldn’t find any source about Pakistan’s inputs. I am willing to correct myself provided you are willing to educate. Go ahead please.

You are nothing but bench of crap writer. I asked your source to prove your claim. Do you have any?

 

[AMCA]

They are not making but assembling it, why you guys always twist the facts?. If India is manufacturing this engine then Kaveri was piece of cake to them. Stop this nonsense


You are nothing but bench of crap writer. I asked your source to prove your claim. Do you have any?

There is no source available anywhere what Pakistan’s design inputs are. Doesn’t that mean Pakistan has none? lol.

What’s Pakistani in JF17?

 

[My-Analogous]

There is no source available anywhere what Pakistan’s design inputs are. Doesn’t that mean Pakistan has none? lol.

What’s Pakistani in JF17?

Where is your source to prove you right?(This is simple sentence for you and hope you understand this)

 

[AMCA]

Where is your source to prove you right?(This is simple sentence for you and hope you understand this)

The onus is on you to prove about Pakistan’s design inputs. As long as you are incapable of doing that, my argument stays undisputed.