Make In India - Fighter Jet musings - News, Developments, Updates - F16,F18, Gripen, Any other

[ziaulislam]

F 16 is no doubt the best option
Design has not changed much since 1980s but would u call the f22 out dated in 10 years (designed in 90) ? Is f 15 outdated, is flanker designed in 80s outdated even rafale will it be outdated, designed in 90s.

F16 was far ahead of its time in 1970-80s. And with saber block 70 is much better in all charaterstics from gripen. I would say its better or at least as good as rafale

 

[ziaulislam]

You will not get anything less than 100M $. Problem is off shore clause. Which exponential rises the cost.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

F 16 is no doubt the best option
Design has not changed much since 1980s but would u call the f22 out dated in 10 years (designed in 90) ? Is f 15 outdated, is flanker designed in 80s outdated even rafale will it be outdated, designed in 90s.

F16 was far ahead of its time in 1970-80s. And with saber block 70 is much better in all charaterstics from gripen. I would say its better or at least as good as rafale

Except that Gripen seems to "shoot down" F-16s during exercises.

http://airheadsfly.com/2014/02/13/norwegian-f-16s-get-buts-kicked-over-iceland/

 

[ziaulislam]

Except that Gripen seems to "shoot down" F-16s during exercises.

http://airheadsfly.com/2014/02/13/norwegian-f-16s-get-buts-kicked-over-iceland/

And typhoon are shoot down by f-16 and mig21 creeps over f15.....

Exercises depend upon lot of factors and engagements models. F16 is by far better, as seen by its customers base and proven combact scores. I dont see Norway being gripen, do I. Instead its Lockheed's f35

Gripen N is bringing the technology in next few years that f16block 60 has fielded now for over a decade

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

And typhoon are shoot down by f-16 and mig21 creeps over f15.....

Exercises depend upon lot of factors and engagements models. F16 is by far better, as seen by its customers base and proven combact scores. I dont see Norway being gripen, do I. Instead its Lockheed's f35

Gripen N is bringing the technology in next few years that f16block 60 has fielded now for over a decade

If only customer base and combat score is used to determine which fighter is better,
then F-16 is better than the F-22...
That line of argument is still-born.

The main decision criteria for Norway was alignment with the US, to make them happy
enough to start using the Norwegian Joint Strike Missile.
Being a superpower gives You leverage in many ways.
According to the Norwegian calculations presented, the F-35 was both cheaper
to buy and to operate compared to the Gripen which is ridiculous, now when real figures
are available.

Wikileaks has shown that the Norwegian evaluation was not real.
They decided to buy the F-35 for political reasons, and then tried
to come up with arguments for the selection.

If Lockheed Martin F-16 test pilots think Gripen E is a better fighter,
who are You to argue .

 

[X_Killer]

Saab GRIPEN has more than 40% of contents from foreign Origin which can't be claimed under ToT.
Like for Engines, AESA etc.
And most of the remaining stuff is either developed or in trials.
Like EW suite.

Moreover, GRIPEN E is still to get its FOC in 2023, than why can't INDIA wait for its LCA MK-2. INDIA should Fastrack it's process to develop mk2

 

[Hindustani78]

http://www.deccanherald.com/content/612535/htt-40-second-prototype-completes.html

DH News Service, Bengaluru, May 20 2017, 2:15 IST
Indian Air Force is poised to acquire 70 HTT-40 aircraft

The second prototype (PT-2) of the Basic Trainer Aircraft HTT-40 aircraft flew for an hour, carrying out important manoeuvres.


The second prototype (PT-2) of the Basic Trainer Aircraft HTT-40 completed its maiden flight at the HAL Airport here on Friday evening. Built by state-owned aviation major Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), the prototype was made ready within one year.

The aircraft flew for one hour, carrying out important manoeuvres. The flight was certified a success by HAL Chairman and Managing Director, Suvarna Raju.

PT-2 was last seen on static display at the Aero India aerospace exhibition at the Yelahanka Air Force Station in February.

The aircraft had been equipped with a fully functional cockpit by then. HTT-40 is designed for use as a basic flight trainer aircraft. But it can also be optimised for aerobatics, instrument flying and close-formation flights. The secondary roles will include navigation and night flying.

It is estimated that the commercial production of the trainer aircraft can generate nearly Rs 3,000-4,000 crore. The Indian Air Force is poised to acquire 70 HTT-40. But this number could potentially go up to 200, based on demand. HAL has proposed to get the aircraft certified in 2018.

Launched with HAL’s internal funding of Rs 500 crore, the HTT-40 project was given the go-ahead for design development in August 2013. Once the detailed design was completed in May 2015, the first prototype (PT-1) had its maiden flight in May 2016.

Having undergone several improvisations, PT-1 has completed over 35 flights. Its fuel system was converted to a fully pressurised one and the rudder modified to address sensitivity issues.

Also on HAL’s agenda is a third prototype designed with reduced weight and a weaponised version, PT-4 to suit the needs of the Indian Army.

Indigenous Trainer Aircraft HTT-40 Makes Inaugural Flight

 

[el nino]

Both the f16 and gripen deals are quietly bring squashed away now in favour of more rafale.

The cost of block 70 and gripen e is almost the same as rafale and delivery time is too far to set up production in India.

This is why India is talking to rafale for fifty more planes for delivery from 2022 onwards after first batch of rsfales are delivered

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Both the f16 and gripen deals are quietly bring squashed away now in favour of more rafale.

The cost of block 70 and gripen e is almost the same as rafale and delivery time is too far to set up production in India.

This is why India is talking to rafale for fifty more planes for delivery from 2022 onwards after first batch of rsfales are delivered

The India Rafale project is.....8,72B$ for 36 aircraft.
The Brazil Gripen E project is.4,68B$ for 36 aircraft.

The Gripen E project includes TOT.

India needs a fighter for the new aircraft carrier, and seems to favour two engine aircrafts.

I think You are making a hen from a feather.

 

[randomradio]

The India Rafale project is.....8,72B$ for 36 aircraft.
The Brazil Gripen E project is.4,68B$ for 36 aircraft.

If you are making such a comparison, then it's about 6.5B for Rafale. It's because the Indian deal also includes 2B for customization and about 300M for performance based logistics.

I would agree that the Gripen is significantly cheaper than Rafale. But Dassault's advantage is the deal for 36 has given them the opportunity to bid with about 40% of the production base already present in India.

Anyway, the two jets are no longer in competition with each other. Gripen has to compete with the F-16 for the IAF deal while Rafale has to compete with the SH and/or the F-35 for the IN deal.

Both the f16 and gripen deals are quietly bring squashed away now in favour of more rafale.

The cost of block 70 and gripen e is almost the same as rafale and delivery time is too far to set up production in India.

This is why India is talking to rafale for fifty more planes for delivery from 2022 onwards after first batch of rsfales are delivered

You are confused between the IAF and IN deals.

IAF will have a Single Engine competition between Gripen and F-16 now.

The decision for more Rafales for the IAF, including a production line, will be taken up a few years later. Right now, IAF is only pushing for 18 more Rafales at a third air base. They basically want to guarantee 3 bases with 2 squadrons each.

The 57 jet deal is for the IN.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

If you are making such a comparison, then it's about 6.5B for Rafale. It's because the Indian deal also includes 2B for customization and about 300M for performance based logistics.

I would agree that the Gripen is significantly cheaper than Rafale. But Dassault's advantage is the deal for 36 has given them the opportunity to bid with about 40% of the production base already present in India.

Anyway, the two jets are no longer in competition with each other. Gripen has to compete with the F-16 for the IAF deal while Rafale has to compete with the SH and/or the F-35 for the IN deal.

The Brazil Gripen E project also includes customization (including development of a two-seat version, and new cockpit instrumentation).
A quote based on the price given to Denmark would be 2,3B$ for 36 Aircraft.
That includes service for 20 years.

 

[X_Killer]

The India Rafale project is.....8,72B$ for 36 aircraft.
The Brazil Gripen E project is.4,68B$ for 36 aircraft.
.

Chill man and dig some facts on RAFALE deal.
The deal includes ~$4 bn for jets
~$1.5 bn for Aircraft customisation (including uprated Engine) + MICA & Meteor
~2 bn for IAF integration and testing + training of IAF crew in France for active deployment without delay
Remaining for setting up Repairing facility at IAF base.

For further deals , the amount will be served for jets only

 

[randomradio]

The Brazil Gripen E project also includes customization (including development of a two-seat version, and new cockpit instrumentation).

That's about 800M more.

http://www.airforce-technology.com/...es-work-on-brazils-gripen-ng-aircraft-4761866

A quote based on the price given to Denmark would be 2,3B$ for 36 Aircraft.
That includes service for 20 years.

Any link for that? Would be interesting.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

That's about 800M more.

http://www.airforce-technology.com/...es-work-on-brazils-gripen-ng-aircraft-4761866



Any link for that? Would be interesting.

http://www.nyteknik.se/fordon/har-ar-prislappen-pa-super-jas-6409662 (Swedish).
I see now that the link is a bit old.
The pricing quoted for the Swedish Gripen last year was a little North of 10% more expensive.

 

[aarohi]

Its online information is available on a jhatka mutton kanpur