Make In India - Fighter Jet musings - News, Developments, Updates - F16,F18, Gripen, Any other

[X_Killer]

How much out of 4 billion you paid so far? may be few million? Russia already paid for all the R&D.

India and Russia signed a preliminary design agreement to jointly produce the FGFA for use by both countries, after which each invested $295 million for preliminary design which was completed in 2013.
In $295 millions you can buy atleast 6 additional Su-30's And when you are ready to buy/build 120+ Aircrafts than ToT will be more than essential for a deal. Isn't it.

 

[TopCat]

India and Russia signed a preliminary design agreement to jointly produce the FGFA for use by both countries, after which each invested $295 million for preliminary design which was completed in 2013.
In $295 millions you can buy atleast 6 additional Su-30's And when you are ready to buy/build 120+ Aircrafts than ToT will be more than essential for a deal. Isn't it.

$295 mln ... ok

 

[X_Killer]

$295 mln ... ok

What OK?
If you go through the Nigerian Jf-17 deal than you can buy 59 jf-17's in the same amount.
Also if you get subsidised F-16's than you can have ~39 F-16 fighter aircrafts.
Even if you want to extend Su-30MKI deal you can have additional 6 aircrafts.
Also you can have 4 RAFALE FIGHTER jets with this amount.

 

[Sloth 22]

U dont call a deal 'ToT' when u dont have the technology that comes from it to manufacture your own spares. How are u having the capability to build your own aircraft when u cant supply your own spaSuor it?

We bought the ToT to build the aircrafts " under a licence " , which means we can build only the given number of parts , which will usually go to new aircrafts , and not more as we don't have the licence to do it.

But it is a ToT as the whole of Su30MKI is built from Raw Materials of India, used to build all the parts from tools of India , by Indians in India.Except Titanium Alloy parts of the engine. Meaning we have the necessary knowhow to build all the Aircraft in India without depending on Russia. But it would then risk future dealings of India with that Russian company.

 

[ohmrlobalobayeh]

We bought the ToT to build the aircrafts " under a licence " , which means we can build only the given number of parts , which will usually go to new aircrafts , and not more as we don't have the licence to do it.

But it is a ToT as the whole of Su30MKI is built from Raw Materials of India, used to build all the parts from tools of India , by Indians in India.Except Titanium Alloy parts of the engine. Meaning we have the necessary knowhow to build all the Aircraft in India without depending on Russia. But it would then risk future dealings of India with that Russian company.

U are just doing a 'merry go round' here

What 'ToT' is there when no technology is transfered for HAL to manufacture her own spares?

'ToT' and licensed production, aka screwdriver assembly rights- are 2 different matters. Whats the whole point of a ToT if HAL still has to be reliant on others for spares?

 

[Sloth 22]

U are just doing a 'merry go round' here

What 'ToT' is there when no technology is transfered for HAL to manufacture her own spares?

'ToT' and licensed production, aka screwdriver assembly rights- are 2 different matters. Whats the whole point of a ToT if HAL still has to be reliant on others for spares?

Screw driver assembly is not what Su30MKI production is about. Had the kits been coming from Russia , and we would have been simply assembling it , your statement might have been correct.

For the rest , read my previous reply again.

If not , leave it.

 

[ohmrlobalobayeh]

Screw driver assembly is not what Su30MKI production is about. Had the kits been coming from Russia , and we would have been simply assembling it , your statement might have been correct.

If not , leave it.

Why should i? You merely trying to brush me off once i exposed what the situation is on the ground.

Established fact is HAL has to import spares n components from russia for the su30mki.

In other words- other then assembly rights aka 'licensed production', HAL cant manufacture the SU30mki.

No technology gained to make spares. Thats not what a 'ToT' is about.

Now u're on the contrary- making a claim that a ToT has taken place despite HAL having the incapability to produce the plane with all of its components, electronics, engine, radar n the like(not an empty shell) on her own.

So, the burden of proof is on you to demonstrate that HAL is producing its own spares n components for the MKI- of which, u have not done so.

 

[ziaulislam]

Why should i? You merely trying to brush me off once i exposed what the situation is on the ground.

Established fact is HAL has to import spares n components from russia for the su30mki.

In other words- other then assembly rights aka 'licensed production', HAL cant manufacture the SU30mki.

No technology gained to make spares. Thats not what a 'ToT' is about.

Now u're on the contrary- making a claim that a ToT has taken place despite HAL having the incapability to produce the plane on her own.

So, the burden of proof is on you to demonstrate that HAL is producing its own spares n components for the MKI- of which, u have not done so.

Tot is blanket term. Doesn't mean much until you knw details.
E.g we got tot for french subs can we make that sub ourself now. No.
Alot of tech is not transferred. Same is true for su 30. Most of the components are still built in Russia. If you remember there were news reports of HAL blaming Russia for delays in su 30 due to delay kits. Now it doesn't mean india is notbuilding most of the jet. From previous articlesit seems 60% of jet parts are build in india.

A better approach thus is a joint venture in which u own the tochnology and there is max transfer of tech

 

[Centurion2016]

Tot is blanket term. Doesn't mean much until you knw details.


A better approach thus is a joint venture in which u own the tochnology and there is max transfer of tech

I suggest you read details of the stand off between India and Russia on the Fgfa deal

India is refusing to agree a deal to spend $4billion to design and build a improved version of the Pakfa until they get transfer of technology and work share in development.

Russia wants to provide screw driver technology with license assembly .

Hence no deal signed yet

 

[ziaulislam]

I suggest you read details of the stand off between India and Russia on the Fgfa deal

India is refusing to agree a deal to spend $4billion to design and build a improved version of the Pakfa until they get transfer of technology and work share in development.

Russia wants to provide screw driver technology with license assembly .

Hence no deal signed yet

What did India expected
It will cost at least this much to get some tot. Look at f35 prog for instances

I would argue that rafale was an utter waste of money in grand scheme. Better spent was half gone to pakfa and other half to LCA. with some to more migs or su30s

 

[ziaulislam]

If india wanted western tech they should have done a JV with gripen for gripen NG. Or just take the f16 deal

 

[Water Car Engineer]

If india wanted western tech they should have done a JV with gripen for gripen NG. Or just take the f16 deal

The single fighter competition is doing just that.

 

[Centurion2016]

If india wanted western tech they should have done a JV with gripen for gripen NG. Or just take the f16 deal

You mean make the same mistake as Pakistani.

Buy USA technology then be stuck with sanctions ,,,, errr no thank you

 

[ziaulislam]

You mean make the same mistake as Pakistani.

Buy USA technology then be stuck with sanctions ,,,, errr no thank you

Hmm. So no wonder you guys buying so many usa stuff

 

[ziaulislam]

The single fighter competition is doing just that.

But MRCA was "supposeto" do that