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Make In India - Fighter Jet musings - News, Developments, Updates - F16,F18, Gripen, Any other

At the most,USA will provide same level of "tech transfer" that Russia provided for Su-30 Mki.

We build everything in Su30MKI ourselves, except for titanium alloys used. And we have already used a Israeli Jammer on it too. Tested ASTRA from it and in process of adding many more things.

Are you sure we will get all this from USA?

Two billion dollars for a surveillance drone is such a waste of money....considering we already have a comparable uav heron!!
There are things we buy, whoes bills needs to be paid. But those things can't be mentioned in the bill.

F16 from 113 Wing of Air National Guard of USA has crashed. Pilot safe.
 
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We build everything in Su30MKI ourselves, except for titanium alloys used. And we have already used a Israeli Jammer on it too. Tested ASTRA from it and in process of adding many more things.

Are you sure we will get all this from USA?


There are things we buy, whoes bills needs to be paid. But those things can't be mentioned in the bill.

F16 from 113 Wing of Air National Guard of USA has crashed. Pilot safe.
Su-30MKI deal was done with "licence production" not with "ToT"
 
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Su-30MKI deal was done with "licence production" not with "ToT"

And we are asking the same this time too.

ToT so as to enable Licence production !

And what we got in the Su30 MKI deal, if that is fixed as the minimum requirement, the Americans and others who are dependent upon Americans for their products loose out at that very moment.
 
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And we are asking the same this time

ToT so as to enable Licence production !

And what we got in the Su30 MKI deal, if that is fixed as the minimum requirement, the Americans and others who are dependent upon Americans for their products loose out at that very moment.
Licence production is completely different from ToT.
In licence production we can't modify or alter any tech.
But in case of ToT we can upgrade , modify or alter any technology.
In case of Su-30MKI we only have rights to assemble the imported kits. There is nothing to learn from it.
But when it comes to FGFA , Russia asked for 50% partnership with an estimated investment of ~$4 billion. That is why, present Government is asking for sales rights and ToT. If we got the Tech than we can modify it for the use in AMCA and other ongoing & upcoming projects.
 
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We build everything in Su30MKI ourselves, except for titanium alloys used. And we have already used a Israeli Jammer on it too. Tested ASTRA from it and in process of adding many more things.

Are you sure ?

At Goa Shipyard Limited Titanium Workshop

A highly specialised titanium workshop equipped with modern welding facilities and a trained workforce fabricates and welds titanium, non-ferrous metals and other components for ship construction.

If Indian Engineers can do fabrication and welds of Titanium and other ferrous metals and other components for ships , then why cant Indian Engineers do it in Airframes of Su 30MKI.
 
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What you have just described qualifies as reverse engineering.

To reverse engineer a piece of equipment, u need the dedicated infrastructure, mechanised-speciality tools, laboratory test kits and most importantly- the brains to examine, analysis n figure out how a part or component is made and why are they created the way they are from an engineering, mathematical, physics and chemistry pov by disassembling an entire plane/ship/tank into single pieces, down to that single screw and bolt. Most importantly, you must have the will- all of which indians lack.
 
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We build everything in Su30MKI ourselves, except for titanium alloys used. And we have already used a Israeli Jammer on it too. Tested ASTRA from it and in process of adding many more things.
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i wonder why you are dealing with Russia for spares than.
i think your minister is lying for quoting that you build around 50-60% of parts for spares
 
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i wonder why you are dealing with Russia for spares than.
i think your minister is lying for quoting that you build around 50-60% of parts for spares
Only critical components which are not manufacturing and license producing within India , are imported.
You need to know that, India is using ~70% arms and ammunition of Russian origin.

Government should encourage R&D agencies to develop LSA (Light STEALTH Aircraft) based on LCA. its will be more easier to modify the Airframe to stealthy design than incorporate other features when first stage is completed/successful.
Why to waste too much time on papers. Learn with practical may be more easier. We already spent much time in LCA Project.
i think Government should think over it.
 
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Only critical components which are not manufacturing and license producing within India , are imported.
You need to know that, India is using ~70% arms and ammunition of Russian origin.

Government should encourage R&D agencies to develop LSA (Light STEALTH Aircraft) based on LCA. its will be more easier to modify the Airframe to stealthy design than incorporate other features when first stage is completed/successful.
Why to waste too much time on papers. Learn with practical may be more easier. We already spent much time in LCA Project.
i think Government should think over it.
IAF is upset with LCA being too light and has been literally forced into getting LCA with promise of another single jet which is more medium (F-16/gripen)
throwing a light stealth will be a disastrous
 
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IAF is upset with LCA being too light and has been literally forced into getting LCA with of another single jet which is more medium (F-16/gripen)
throwing a light stealth will be a disastrous
For your kind information, I would like to share. Information that there is need of ~250 single Engine FIGHTER AIRCRAFT by 2027.
The huge need of fighters are raised due to the retirement of Mig-21, Mig-23 and mig-27 squadrons & simultaneous raise in number of squadrons to the number of 42.
Hence there is a need of another fighter to fulfill the need within the available slot of time.
There is nothing like compromise but there is a genuine urgency.
 
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i wonder why you are dealing with Russia for spares than.
i think your minister is lying for quoting that you build around 50-60% of parts for spares

We have licence and ToT to build the aircraft. The initial deal didn't had a long term Spares Supply deal with Russia. So every six months we needed to buy spares under a new contract. Thereby lowering the number of aircraft ready to fly.

The recent contract for spares is that the Russian company is directly contracted to supply spares for 5 years.

At the end of period the Su30MKI fleet will start undergoing Super Sukhoi upgrade, under that program HAL will then get the rights to manufacture all the spares , thereby making Indian Airforce fully independent of Irkut.

Even now most of the spares concerning to Aircrafts Air frame, its avionics and EW systems are manufactured by HAL , which we also export to Flanker operators who buy flankers from IRKUT. But we don't manufacture most of the spares related to the engine ,as we lack a military grade Titanium Plant.
 
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Only critical components which are not manufacturing and license producing within India , are imported.
You need to know that, India is using ~70% arms and ammunition of Russian origin.

Government should encourage R&D agencies to develop LSA (Light STEALTH Aircraft) based on LCA. its will be more easier to modify the Airframe to stealthy design than incorporate other features when first stage is completed/successful.
Why to waste too much time on papers. Learn with practical may be more easier. We already spent much time in LCA Project.
i think Government should think over it.
Straight out of IDF.
INDIAAEROSHOW



In this February 16, 2017 file photo, U.S. fighter aircraft F-16 performs on the third day of Aero India 2017 at Yelahanka air base in Bangalore, India. | Photo Credit: AP

http://www.thehindu.com/news/intern...sh-for-f-16-sale-to-india/article17662863.ece

Noting that the last F-16 for the US Air Force rolled off the production line in Fort Worth in 1999, the two Senators said India remains the only major F-16 prospect customer.
Two top Senators have urged the Trump administration to push for the sale of F-16 fighter jets to India to build its capability to counter security threats and balance China’s growing military power in the Pacific.

Senators Mark Warner from Virginia and John Cornyn from Texa in a joint letter to US Defence Secretary James Mattis and Secretary of State Rex Tillerson said, the Trump administration must make the fighter jet acquisition a priority during initial bilateral discussions with India.

India has launched an effort to expand its combat aircraft fleet and the competition has reportedly narrowed down to Lockheed’s F-16 and Saab’s Gripen.

Noting that the last F-16 for the US Air Force rolled off the production line in Fort Worth in 1999, the two Senators said India remains the only major F-16 prospect customer.

“A primary factor in India’s decision will be compliance with Prime Minister Modi’s ‘Make in India’ initiative, which will require establishing some level of local production capacity,” Mr. Warner and Mr. Cornyn wrote.

“Given the strategic significance of India selecting a US aircraft as the mainstay for its future Air Force and the potential for a decision this year, we ask that the administration make the fighter acquisition a priority during initial bilateral discussions,” they said.

Mr. Warner, who is a Democrat and Mr. Cornyn from the Republican Party are the co-chairs of the influential Senate India caucus, the only country specific caucus in the US Senate.

“We urge you to weigh in forcefully with the White House on the strategic significance of this deal, both to America’s defence industrial base and to our growing security partnership with India,” said the letter dated March 23.

Making a strong case for the sale of F-16s to India, the two Senators said this would represent a historic win for America that will deepen the U.S.-India strategic defence relationship and cement cooperation between our two countries for decades to come.

“It would increase interoperability with a key partner and dominant power in South Asia, build India’s capability to counter threat from the north, and balance China’s growing military capability in the Pacific,” they said.

India, they said, increasingly serves as an integral partner in the United States’ security architecture in the volatile South Asia region, helping to protect our joint interests and deter common threats, and has emerged as a critical trading partner, they noted.

As such “it is in our national interest to work with India to progress democratic principles through regional security partnership and burden sharing,” they said.

“To this end, we support the co-production of our legacy F-16 aircraft in India to help sustain the United States’ current fleet of aircraft and aid a critical Indian security need with a proven American product,” Mr. Cornyn and Mr. Warner wrote.

The competition for the fighter jets, they wrote, presents an opportunity to solidify and strengthen the significant gains made in the bilateral U.S.-India defence relationship over the two previous administrations, they said.
 
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IAF is upset with LCA being too light and has been literally forced into getting LCA with promise of another single jet which is more medium (F-16/gripen)
throwing a light stealth will be a disastrous


Indian Military planners are aware what they are doing .
 
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We have licence and ToT to build the aircraft. The initial deal didn't had a long term Spares Supply deal with Russia. So every six months we needed to buy spares under a new contract. Thereby lowering the number of aircraft ready to fly.

The recent contract for spares is that the Russian company is directly contracted to supply spares for 5 years.

At the end of period the Su30MKI fleet will start undergoing Super Sukhoi upgrade, under that program HAL will then get the rights to manufacture all the spares , thereby making Indian Airforce fully independent of Irkut.

Even now most of the spares concerning to Aircrafts Air frame, its avionics and EW systems are manufactured by HAL , which we also export to Flanker operators who buy flankers from IRKUT. But we don't manufacture most of the spares related to the engine ,as we lack a military grade Titanium Plant.

U dont call a deal 'ToT' when u dont have the technology that comes from it to manufacture your own spares. How are u having the capability to build your own aircraft when u cant supply your own spares for it?
 
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Licence production is completely different from ToT.
In licence production we can't modify or alter any tech.
But in case of ToT we can upgrade , modify or alter any technology.
In case of Su-30MKI we only have rights to assemble the imported kits. There is nothing to learn from it.
But when it comes to FGFA , Russia asked for 50% partnership with an estimated investment of ~$4 billion. That is why, present Government is asking for sales rights and ToT. If we got the Tech than we can modify it for the use in AMCA and other ongoing & upcoming projects.
How much out of 4 billion you paid so far? may be few million? Russia already paid for all the R&D.
 
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