Make In India - Fighter Jet musings - News, Developments, Updates - F16,F18, Gripen, Any other

[GURU DUTT]

IAF's plan to replace ailing MiG with 'Make in India' combat aircraft heading for trouble

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NEW DELHI: An Indian Air Forceplan to replace its MiG fighter fleet with a 'Made in India' combat aircraft is heading for trouble. As of now the choice is between two aircraft from Sweden and the US, both of which failed a comprehensive technical evaluation process in 2010. Plus, there are grumbles that other countries which have fighter jets were not called at all.

ET spoke to senior officials for this report. They did not want to be identified. An IAF spokesperson told ET he could not comment on the issue.

IAF's communication to the US and Sweden earlier this month said the force was looking for a modern, proven single-engine fighter aircraft in operational service. IAF didn't offer any details of minimum performance levels, asking only for a "4th generation fighter" — a broad qualification that also fits India's long-under-development light combat aircraft (LCA).

Industry experts, who spoke off record, said IAF's approach so far can get the force into a single vendor situation and, therefore, a recipe for slowdown in decision-making.

A single vendor situation often leads to questions over fairness in the selection process. The aim is to make a choice from a multiple vendor situation.

People familiar with the situation said since IAF's communication asked for fighters in operational service, there was little logic in restricting it to Sweden (which has Saab-manufactured Gripen) and the US (which offers Lockheed Martin's F-16).

This, said experts, is even more surprising given that Gripen and F-16 didn't make the cut after IAF held an evaluation exercise in 2010. France'sMirage 2000, no longer in production but in service, could have also met IAF's broad criteria.

Plus, before a 'Make in India' plan for fighter aircraft can start, the defence ministry will have to move ahead on its Strategic Partnership (SP) model, which will provide guidelines for private sector companies participating in major military manufacturing programmes.

Among other questions the SP model is yet to address are the issues on long-term agreements with private sector companies and the role of public sector defence units.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...-heading-for-trouble/articleshow/54992034.cms

Sorji 100 baton ki 1 baat F16s are coming for "imported air force" or "chiria ghar air force"

 

[Incog_nito]

How much sure we should be about HAL/India making:
F-16s
F-18s
Grippens

And how many in numbers we should expect them?

 

[Echo_419]

Sorji 100 baton ki 1 baat F16s are coming for "imported air force" or "chiria ghar air force"

I hope Parrikar doesn't make this mistake

 

[TylerDurden07]

Mannu is not a good def journo . i trust Ajai ,vishnu ,vivek more

 

[dadeechi]

It took 40 years for LM to produce 4500 f 16 , that's about 100+ per year. They are claiming to move entire production line for us. So no way its gonna take 17 years to produce 120 planes for biggest defence giant in the world. if every thing go well and production start in 2020 we can hope for 2026- 2030.

Production for F-16s in India would start earlier than 2020. The main delay is from India. LM is slated to start F-35 production full steam in 2019. Expect F-16 Indian line in 2018.

Wouldn't that create a logistical nightmare ??

Logistics nightmare is an unfounded concern.

IAF has procured and maintained the following in the recent past

SU-30MKI - 300
MIG-29 - 70
Mirage 2K - 40
MIG-21 - 250
Jaguar - 145
MIG -27 - 120

Now by 2025, IAF would have

Super Sukhois - 300
RAFALEs -126
F-16s -200

MIG-29 & Mirage 2K would be getting ready for retirement by 2030 and India would start procuring FGFA and Gripen (LCA Tejas MK2) from 2024

These are just rumors

These are not rumors. We will see a F-16 Indian line by 2018.

How much sure we should be about HAL/India making:
F-16s
F-18s
Grippens

And how many in numbers we should expect them?

200+ F-16s
No F-18s
Gripen would be a JV to replace LCA MK2.

 

[Skull and Bones]

How much sure we should be about HAL/India making:
F-16s
F-18s
Grippens

And how many in numbers we should expect them?

No more responsibilities will be given to HAL, the recent deal for the offset between Dassault and Reliance is a clear indication for that. Because of HAL, the Rafale deal was backtracked and delayed for over 2 years.

 

[Hephaestus]

Production for F-16s in India would start earlier than 2020. The main delay is from India. LM is slated to start F-35 production full steam in 2019. Expect F-16 Indian line in 2018.



Logistics nightmare is an unfounded concern.

IAF has procured and maintained the following in the recent past

SU-30MKI - 300
MIG-29 - 70
Mirage 2K - 40
MIG-21 - 250
Jaguar - 145
MIG -27 - 120

Now by 2025, IAF would have

Super Sukhois - 300
RAFALEs -126
F-16s -200

MIG-29 & Mirage 2K would be getting ready for retirement by 2030 and India would start procuring FGFA and Gripen (LCA Tejas MK2) from 2024



These are not rumors. We will see a F-16 Indian line by 2018.



200+ F-16s
No F-18s
Gripen would be a JV to replace LCA MK2.

So, why this farce.
Just select F-16. And announce a tripartite JV between SAAB, HAL & A private firm.

 

[dadeechi]

So, why this farce.
Just select F-16. And announce a tripartite JV between SAAB, HAL & A private firm.

Only competition ensures that you get the right deal (price and ToT). Remember India got Safran deal for Kaveri as the result of competition from other MMRCA vendors.

A year ago, when I broke this news of India procuring all three fighters - RAFALEs, F16s and Gripen., people could not believe.

People said that there is an outside chance of F-18s making it and F-16s have no chance.

F-16 would provide the immediate numbers that IAF requires at a very rapid pace.

Gripen would bring in the Manufacturing Tech (primarily quality) that is hampering the Tejas program. This would take time and would be available only after 2024. By 2024 India would also be moving to 5th gen fighters with it's FGFA. Hence it make sense to include the 5th generation features into the program.

Indian needs a matured Engine and Fighter manufacturing base from Indian private industry players for AMCA to succeed.

Tejas has played it's role and it is time to take it to the 5th gen level in the next 8 years.

 

[Hephaestus]

A year ago, when I broke this news of India procuring all three fighters - RAFALEs, F16s and Gripen., people could not believe.

I didn't either.

So, accordingly what will the IAF fleet look like around circa 2025. I'm a little confused now.

Gripen would bring in the Manufacturing Tech (primarily quality) that is hampering the Tejas program. This would take time and would be available only after 2024.

How will this work out. Is SAAB going to tinker Tejas & mk1a or mk2 be gripens badged as Tejas? Personally I think this is a not such a bad idea.

 

[Skull and Bones]

Where does it put Rafale MII?

 

[dadeechi]

Where does it put Rafale MII?

I didn't either.

So, accordingly what will the IAF fleet look like around circa 2025. I'm a little confused now.


How will this work out. Is SAAB going to tinker Tejas & mk1a or mk2 be gripens badged as Tejas? Personally I think this is a not such a bad idea.

RAFALE MII would still happen.

By 2025, IAF would have

Super Sukhois - 300
RAFALEs -126
F-16s -200

MIG-29 & Mirage 2K would be getting ready for retirement by 2030 and India would start procuring FGFA and Gripen (LCA Tejas MK2) from 2024

Source: https://defence.pk/threads/make-in-india-fighter-jet-musings-news-developments-updates-f16-f18-gripen-any-other.448850/page-19#ixzz4Ns3MGTmt

 

[Hephaestus]

Super Sukhois - 300

What is the proposed timeline for the upgrade. What kind of upgrades are we looking at?

RAFALEs -126

Thank heavens. I seriously hope they don't stop at 54.

MIG-29

How does that affect or alter IN requirements. What kind of fighters are we going for our carriers post 2030. I would like the Rafale-N. But, then we are bound to please a few great powers. So, it could be the f-35c also.

F-16s -200

Would this automatically mean that we will acquire the F-35 in future as well.

Sorry, for so many questions.

 

[dadeechi]

What is the proposed timeline for the upgrade. What kind of upgrades are we looking at?



Thank heavens. I seriously hope they don't stop at 54.


How does that affect or alter IN requirements. What kind of fighters are we going for our carriers post 2030. I would like the Rafale-N. But, then we are bound to please a few great powers. So, it could be the f-35c also.


Would this automatically mean that we will acquire the F-35 in future as well.

Sorry, for so many questions.

SU-30s would eventually be replaced by FGFA.

No major structural changes are being planned. Focus is on

1) Improving reliability and serviceability of the current AL-31FP engines by upgrading them to AL-41FIS engines sported on SU-35s

2) Replace N011M BARS PESA radar with N036 Byelka AESA to be sported on PAK-FA

3) Upgrade avionics


The MIG-29 that I was alluding to are the IAF's MiG-29UPGs not the MIG-29Ks being used by Indian navy. Both F-35Cs and RAFALE-N are an option depending on the aircraft carrier.

Yes LM is pitching for F-35s as follow on to F-16 Order. This may depend on the deal that would be offered and the state of FGFA program. This is a decision that needs to be made a decade from now.

 

[PlugnPlay]

Thank heavens. I seriously hope they don't stop at 54.

For now they have stopped at 36.

 

[Echo_419]

Production for F-16s in India would start earlier than 2020. The main delay is from India. LM is slated to start F-35 production full steam in 2019. Expect F-16 Indian line in 2018.



Logistics nightmare is an unfounded concern.

IAF has procured and maintained the following in the recent past

SU-30MKI - 300
MIG-29 - 70
Mirage 2K - 40
MIG-21 - 250
Jaguar - 145
MIG -27 - 120

Now by 2025, IAF would have

Super Sukhois - 300
RAFALEs -126
F-16s -200

MIG-29 & Mirage 2K would be getting ready for retirement by 2030 and India would start procuring FGFA and Gripen (LCA Tejas MK2) from 2024



These are not rumors. We will see a F-16 Indian line by 2018.



200+ F-16s
No F-18s
Gripen would be a JV to replace LCA MK2.

If this true then we are doomed & Parkiar is an idiot