Make In India - Fighter Jet musings - News, Developments, Updates - F16,F18, Gripen, Any other

[A.P. Richelieu]

You do realize this facility is expanding over an already existing facility right?

You don't build a full production line unless you have solved all the problems you mentioned in the first place. No one builds a full production line unless you have something that requires a full production line.

New expanded production line = We can mass produce stuff. This is common sense.

In semiconductors You actually do that.
You build the fab in advance and try to plan it to be ready when Your design is ready.
Intel does not design a processor in a new process, and waits until it is fully working
before starting to build the fab.
Sometime you build a fab, but only populate it partly,
simply because your existing fabs are not good enough for next process.
You cannot even experiment in the old fab.

There are plenty of examples where a semiconductor device has been in production for years,
and suddenly the yield drops to nothing.

Semiconductors is unlike most business. You can never guarantee any output.

 

[randomradio]

In semiconductors You actually do that.
You build the fab in advance and try to plan it to be ready when Your design is ready.
Intel does not design a processor in a new process, and waits until it is fully working
before starting to build the fab.
Sometime you build a fab, but only populate it partly,
simply because your existing fabs are not good enough for next process.
You cannot even experiment in the old fab.

There are plenty of examples where a semiconductor device has been in production for years,
and suddenly the yield drops to nothing.

Semiconductors is unlike most business. You can never guarantee any output.

No you don't. Who told you that?

You don't build a production line until you have a product in any industry. In semiconductors, you build a very small scale facility which you can use to test whatever you make. And then you scale up. This is what's happening in India now.

A foundry is extremely expensive. You want it to start producing from day one if you want to make a profit 10 years down the line. If you aren't, then you don't make a foundry in the first place.

Dude, this is simple economics. Where's the common sense? Why will you build a facility that can produce 100 billion transistors if you only want 1 billion for R&D work? Who will pay for the excess capacity? You?

You are wasting my time. I'm giving up.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

No you don't. Who told you that?

You don't build a production line until you have a product in any industry. In semiconductors, you build a very small scale facility which you can use to test whatever you make. And then you scale up. This is what's happening in India now.

A foundry is extremely expensive. You want it to start producing from day one if you want to make a profit 10 years down the line. If you aren't, then you don't make a foundry in the first place.

Dude, this is simple economics. Where's the common sense? Why will you build a facility that can produce 100 billion transistors if you only want 1 billion for R&D work? Who will pay for the excess capacity? You?

You are wasting my time. I'm giving up.

You build a fab once you believe you have a viable product.
Sometimes that is incorrect.

 

[randomradio]

You build a fab once you believe you have a viable product.
Sometimes that is incorrect.

We don't have a fab yet for exactly that reason. It's not viable because we don't have a product.

http://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1329516
"JP Associates has withdrawn its proposal of semiconductor plant. They have said that it is not commercially viable to set up this plant at present," Aruna Sharma, secretary of the DeitY (Department of Electronics and IT) of the ministry of communications & information technology, government of India told reporters on the sidelines of a Qualcomm event in New Delhi.

 

[wiseone2]

We don't have a fab yet for exactly that reason. It's not viable because we don't have a product.

http://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1329516
"JP Associates has withdrawn its proposal of semiconductor plant. They have said that it is not commercially viable to set up this plant at present," Aruna Sharma, secretary of the DeitY (Department of Electronics and IT) of the ministry of communications & information technology, government of India told reporters on the sidelines of a Qualcomm event in New Delhi.

it is a chicken and egg problem

 

[randomradio]

it is a chicken and egg problem

AMD wants to make India a manufacturing hub using a rival fab plant by Hindustan Semiconductor. So JP's competitors have a product, but JP doesn't.

 

[X_Killer]

Cricket Semiconductors agreed to invest 1 billion USD in Madhya Pradesh to setup SC wafer fab.

Links For reference :
https://www.cricketsemiconductor.com/why-india/the-opportunity-in-india/
http://m.economictimes.com/tech/har...lant/articleshow/46232269.cms?intenttarget=no

 

[Incog_nito]

Anything is possible in an infinite universe.
Personally, I think it has a fair chance, but since the decision will be taken after the election,
a new government might have other ideas than the current.

Some factors speaking for Gripen are:
IAF appears to favour it according to some Indian professor, whose name escapes me.

Uses the same engine as planned for Tejas Mk 2/AMCA GE-414.
GE has promised MII production of GE-414.
India is working on Kaveri as a GE-414 replacement. This might allow Kaveri in Gripen E as well.

Gripen is actively developed and will be so for the foreseeable future.
Cost will be shared with all Gripen Users.
F-16 will be in a cash cow status for LM, and is unlikely to get further development,
so India will have to design all upgrades themselves.
Among things in the works is the possibility to control (stealthy) drones that can detect
adversaries without any active sensor on the Gripen fighter.
This may allow stealth adversaries to be detected earlier than the Gripen.

The F-16 total cost of ownership is higher due to higher CPFH even if it is slightly cheaper to buy.

The approved weaponry of Gripen is better aligned with Indias plans than that of F-16.
New weapons are much easier to Integrate on Gripen, than on F-16, and can in many cases be done by India without involvement of SAAB.

SAAB is the leader in GaN AESA fighter radar, and so far it appears to be way ahead of anyone else. This is valuable technology for ToT that can short-cut an India GaN AESA radar development by a number of years.

Pakistan is well trained in F-16, so they should know which weaknesses to exploit.
The F-16 Block 52 is more nimble than the Block 60 which the Block 70 F-16IN is based on.
The Block 70 of should be much better on BVR combat of course.

Flying the same type, increases the risk of friendly kills.

Gripen pilots have noticed that adversaries have problems detecting them, due to
a combination of low RCS ad EW capability.

Gripen is a fighter built for network centric warfare, allowing a Gripen act an AWACS
for another three Gripen.

The Gripen Man Machine interface offloads the pilot in a much smarter way, than the
old fashioned interface of the F-16.

So how many Gripens are planned?

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

So how many Gripens are planned?

About 250 Gripen A-D have been built so far, and there are orders for 96 Gripen E-F.
Over time, it is expected that Brazil will have two more batches adding 60-70 aircraft.
SAAB is actively selling to Slovakia, Bulgaria, Croatia, India, Botswana, Colombia, Austria.
An India order would be for 100-200 Gripen E-F, and dwarf everything else.
The others summed up, are close to 100 Gripen C-D.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

The F-16 Yaw Departure problem.

 

[X_Killer]

The F-16 Yaw Departure problem.

Enjoy the show:

Problems sometimes occurred, it doesn't mean that the whole Product is bad.

So how many Gripens are planned?

As far as Indian market is concerned, GRIPEN starts with a high thurst but as of now, it positioned behind f-16.

 

[X_Killer]

India line will build 3-4 F-16s every month, claims Lockheed Martin
Says early decision would let India build F-16s for Bahrain and Indonesia
Ajai Shukla | New Delhi August 22, 2017 Last Updated at 21:38 IST

Lockheed Martin, the world’s biggest defence vendor, which is pitching strongly to sell the Indian Air Force (IAF) its new F-16 Block 70 fighter, told Business Standard on Tuesday that, if India chose its fighter, an Indian production line would churn out three-to-four F-16s every month. “We want to create the capacity to build three or more aircraft per month; we could do four. It depends upon how many aircraft India needs and when it will buy those”, said Randy Howard, who markets the F-16 globally for Lockheed Martin. For the IAF, which is making do ...
http://www.business-standard.com/ar...th-claims-lockheed-martin-117082201366_1.html

 

[BON PLAN]

A new Rafale order soon ?

http://www.indiastrategic.in/2017/08/21/iaf-to-get-another-36-rafale-combat-aircraft/

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India line will build 3-4 F-16s every month, claims Lockheed Martin
Says early decision would let India build F-16s for Bahrain and Indonesia
Ajai Shukla | New Delhi August 22, 2017 Last Updated at 21:38 IST

Lockheed Martin, the world’s biggest defence vendor, which is pitching strongly to sell the Indian Air Force (IAF) its new F-16 Block 70 fighter, told Business Standard on Tuesday that, if India chose its fighter, an Indian production line would churn out three-to-four F-16s every month. “We want to create the capacity to build three or more aircraft per month; we could do four. It depends upon how many aircraft India needs and when it will buy those”, said Randy Howard, who markets the F-16 globally for Lockheed Martin. For the IAF, which is making do ...
http://www.business-standard.com/ar...th-claims-lockheed-martin-117082201366_1.html

Lost battle for F16.
Too old, too late, too Trump.

 

[MULUBJA]

One thing is very sure, If anything comes, they have to come with TOT and make in India. tejas itself offers a huge potential to be an excellent multi role fighter. SOme changes are required to be made and if they are made, Tejas shall be a nightmare for enemies with exceptional T/W ratio and state of art electronics.

 

[BON PLAN]

One thing is very sure, If anything comes, they have to come with TOT and make in India. tejas itself offers a huge potential to be an excellent multi role fighter. SOme changes are required to be made and if they are made, Tejas shall be a nightmare for enemies with exceptional T/W ratio and state of art electronics.

Tejas may become a nice fighter, or a light air to ground straffer, but not a truly multi role fighter.
It is too light for that.
It was developped as a point defense fighter to replace Mig21, not as a multirole fighter, needed to be bigger.

Exceptionnal T/W ratio ? explain me what is exceptionnal in its.