Make In India - Fighter Jet musings - News, Developments, Updates - F16,F18, Gripen, Any other

[randomradio]

Semiconductor companies.
Volume Wafer production requirements are very different from power module production
requirements, so it does not make sense to do both in the same foundry.

If the core idea was to sell to semiconductor companies, then the govt would have built the facility along with a private company like they are planning to do with other fab technologies.

But this facility is wholly govt owned, like all military facilities are. This way profits won't be the primary driver for such a facility. It is deemed a strategic sector.

You are free to believe what you want.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

If the core idea was to sell to semiconductor companies, then the govt would have built the facility along with a private company like they are planning to do with other fab technologies.

But this facility is wholly govt owned, like all military facilities are. This way profits won't be the primary driver for such a facility. It is deemed a strategic sector.

You are free to believe what you want.

No the core idea is to create something similar to a semiconductor company,
focusing producing GaN transistors for use by others.
At least this is what the sources You refer to have shown.
They are several years from producing in volume, if the funding was approved last month.
The building for such a foundry needs to be designed and built according to
very special specifications, in order to meet the requirement for extreme cleanliness.
It is not possible to take an existing building, not built with this in mind.

There maybe others in India working on GaN power modules, and maybe they
have a focus on AESA radars, but that has not been shown in any of your sources,
and googling using obvious search criteria results in nothing.

 

[randomradio]

No the core idea is to create something similar to a semiconductor company,
focusing producing GaN transistors for use by others.
At least this is what the sources You refer to have shown.
They are several years from producing in volume, if the funding was approved last month.
The building for such a foundry needs to be designed and built according to
very special specifications, in order to meet the requirement for extreme cleanliness.
It is not possible to take an existing building, not built with this in mind.

So a strategic facility has been built for profit. Great. First time for India. Probably will never happen again in the future either. All because you said so.

http://www.financialexpress.com/ind...or-production-of-wonder-nano-material/754727/
According to Indian Express reports, the proposed foundry is supposed to be developed around an existing facility for producing gallium nitride transistors on silicon wafers

There maybe others in India working on GaN power modules, and maybe they
have a focus on AESA radars, but that has not been shown in any of your sources,
and googling using obvious search criteria results in nothing.

As a large country with a lot of future prospects, we will obviously have many companies involved in the R&D of future technologies.

But that in no way means the govt is spending $500M on a production line for fun. I don't think you know it, but the LCA production line is cheaper than this. The cost of development of the Kaveri engine is lesser. Even India's stealth UCAV program costs less than this foundry.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...-theres-been-a-delay/articleshow/48282481.cms
Rs 2,101 crore spent on development of indigenous Kaveri engine

3000Cr is a lot of money in India.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

So a strategic facility has been built for profit. Great. First time for India. Probably will never happen again in the future either. All because you said so.

http://www.financialexpress.com/ind...or-production-of-wonder-nano-material/754727/
According to Indian Express reports, the proposed foundry is supposed to be developed around an existing facility for producing gallium nitride transistors on silicon wafers



As a large country with a lot of future prospects, we will obviously have many companies involved in the R&D of future technologies.

But that in no way means the govt is spending $500M on a production line for fun. I don't think you know it, but the LCA production line is cheaper than this. The cost of development of the Kaveri engine is lesser. Even India's stealth UCAV program costs less than this foundry.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...-theres-been-a-delay/articleshow/48282481.cms
Rs 2,101 crore spent on development of indigenous Kaveri engine

3000Cr is a lot of money in India.

The intention of building the foundry is obviously that the products will be used in a vast number of applications, including power modules for GaN AESA radars.

If you look further down your source you will find:

In 2015, Prime Minister Narendra Modi had inaugurated the CeNSE facility at the IISc which at this juncture is trying to create an ecosystem of GaN electronics, which includes devices, system and materials. CeNSE is already selling GaN-based transistors to researchers across the country.

It does not say that CeNSE sells GaN based power modules to researchers across the country.

 

[BON PLAN]

We can't see no stealthy attributes in the Gripen C. Same for Gripen E, which is only a Scale 1,1 (+/-) of C model.
Air intakes are not designed to reduce RCS. And the small distance between air intakes and engine avoid, according to me, a "S" duct to prevent the engine to be seen by a radar in front.

It's only the small size of the plane that help to reduce the RCS.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

We can't see no stealthy attributes in the Gripen C. Same for Gripen E, which is only a Scale 1,1 (+/-) of C model.
Air intakes are not designed to reduce RCS. And the small distance between air intakes and engine avoid, according to me, a "S" duct to prevent the engine to be seen by a radar in front.
View attachment 418997
It's only the small size of the plane that help to reduce the RCS.

I read somewhere that SAAB has put a lot of attention to the RCS cause by finer details like rivets.
Perhaps SAAB are right that the EW unit is superior.
It is undeniable that it is difficult to detect.
Czech pilots have noted the same.
Since the stuff is classified we will not be able to deduce enough
to make a valid judgement.

 

[randomradio]

The intention of building the foundry is obviously that the products will be used in a vast number of applications, including power modules for GaN AESA radars.

If you look further down your source you will find:

In 2015, Prime Minister Narendra Modi had inaugurated the CeNSE facility at the IISc which at this juncture is trying to create an ecosystem of GaN electronics, which includes devices, system and materials. CeNSE is already selling GaN-based transistors to researchers across the country.

It does not say that CeNSE sells GaN based power modules to researchers across the country.

Why should it say that? Why will CeNSE sell power modules to researchers? Researchers are the ones who create the power modules based on what CeNSE develops.

I don't think you have understood the implications of having a full scale foundry. It means we have these power modules that you speak of, and that means we can start manufacturing them. If we didn't have the means of using the transistors we fabricate, then there would be no need to scale up manufacturing.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Why should it say that? Why will CeNSE sell power modules to researchers? Researchers are the ones who create the power modules based on what CeNSE develops.

I don't think you have understood the implications of having a full scale foundry. It means we have these power modules that you speak of, and that means we can start manufacturing them. If we didn't have the means of using the transistors we fabricate, then there would be no need to scale up manufacturing.

The implications of having a full scale foundry (which You will have earliest in a couple of years, since the funding was just approved) is that you will be able to produce transistors.
This is what You have provided source for.

It does not automatically follow that India has any design using GaN right now.
India may have such designs, but You have not shown any material that even hints
that it does.

We know that unpackaged GaN dies or wafers has been shipped to researchers in India.
We do not know what they have done with them, (if they have done anything at all).
Googling for GaN design in India does not turn up something useful.
Even if they have done something, it might be for a completely different application
than an AESA radar.

The logical explanation for the foundry is that India has the intention to use GaN.

You have not shown any source claiming India has any competence in SiC
(SiliconCarbide), a technology popular as base material for integrated power modules.

Until you provide a real source, with an Indian claiming to have mastered GaN in a Power Module,
You are wasting everybodys time.

 

[randomradio]

The implications of having a full scale foundry (which You will have earliest in a couple of years, since the funding was just approved) is that you will be able to produce transistors.
This is what You have provided source for.

It does not automatically follow that India has any design using GaN right now.
India may have such designs, but You have not shown any material that even hints
that it does.

We know that unpackaged GaN dies or wafers has been shipped to researchers in India.
We do not know what they have done with them, (if they have done anything at all).
Googling for GaN design in India does not turn up something useful.
Even if they have done something, it might be for a completely different application
than an AESA radar.

The logical explanation for the foundry is that India has the intention to use GaN.

You have not shown any source claiming India has any competence in SiC
(SiliconCarbide), a technology popular as base material for integrated power modules.

Until you provide a real source, with an Indian claiming to have mastered GaN in a Power Module,
You are wasting everybodys time.

Dude, you are the one wasting time here. Why will you get information about strategic facilities on Google?

We are building a $500M foundry already. That's all the proof you need.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Dude, you are the one wasting time here. Why will you get information about strategic facilities on Google?

We are building a $500M foundry already. That's all the proof you need.

Oh, I can get information about your strategic facility.
It just does not support Your claim.

If You were right, there would be something mentioning SiC (SiliconCarbide)

The status of India is that India has approved funding one month ago.
Before any building is done, planning have to be completed.
The building is likely to take a couple of years to get running.
It may or may not run into hard to explain production problems.
Happens even for the top semiconductor companies.

During that time, the power modules have to be designed and prepared for production.
That is going to take years as well.

Once the foundry is running, the output of the foundry may deviate from the current output,
forcing a redesign of the module to be producable.
Once the module is fitted inside a radar, there could be more problems,
that could even force a redesign of the GaN transistors themselves.

Once the radar is fitted onto a fighter yet more problems may occur and so on, and so forth.

India, investing $500M, clearly plans to get there, but when is the question.

That is where SAABs offer and competence comes into play.
India could save quite some time in inducting GaN AESA radar.
The components would initially not be manufactured in India though.

A problem also occurs if it turns out that Indias foundry cannot achieve the same
yield as companies that has been in this business for 30-50 years.
Then the GaN tranistors will be more expensive, and that makes the end products
more expensive as well.

 

[X_Killer]

Here we have someone, who thinks that there is online one country which has all advance technologies are growing in its country i.e. Sweden

There is a word in Sanskrit which can define the same, "koop mandook " which refers to one who never go outside its limited surroundings.

Meanwhile, enjoy the awesome pics of possible contenders of SE jet tender

VS

 

[BON PLAN]

Here we have someone, who thinks that there is online one country which has all advance technologies are growing in its country i.e. Sweden

There is a word in Sanskrit which can define the same, "koop mandook " which refers to one who never go outside its limited surroundings.

Meanwhile, enjoy the awesome pics of possible contenders of SE jet tender

VS

You forget the winner plane ....

Indian Tejas !!!

 

[X_Killer]

You forget the winner planer ....

Indian Tejas !!!

Thats why I said possible contenders because as of now SE jet tender is not Officially raised.
And completely depends on the post FOC Mk1A success (specially with more Indigenous content including Uttam , DARE EW suite etc)

Tejas will decide the fate of SE JET render

 

[randomradio]

Oh, I can get information about your strategic facility.
It just does not support Your claim.

If You were right, there would be something mentioning SiC (SiliconCarbide)

The status of India is that India has approved funding one month ago.
Before any building is done, planning have to be completed.
The building is likely to take a couple of years to get running.
It may or may not run into hard to explain production problems.
Happens even for the top semiconductor companies.

During that time, the power modules have to be designed and prepared for production.
That is going to take years as well.

Once the foundry is running, the output of the foundry may deviate from the current output,
forcing a redesign of the module to be producable.
Once the module is fitted inside a radar, there could be more problems,
that could even force a redesign of the GaN transistors themselves.

Once the radar is fitted onto a fighter yet more problems may occur and so on, and so forth.

India, investing $500M, clearly plans to get there, but when is the question.

That is where SAABs offer and competence comes into play.
India could save quite some time in inducting GaN AESA radar.
The components would initially not be manufactured in India though.

A problem also occurs if it turns out that Indias foundry cannot achieve the same
yield as companies that has been in this business for 30-50 years.
Then the GaN tranistors will be more expensive, and that makes the end products
more expensive as well.

You do realize this facility is expanding over an already existing facility right?

You don't build a full production line unless you have solved all the problems you mentioned in the first place. No one builds a full production line unless you have something that requires a full production line.

New expanded production line = We can mass produce stuff. This is common sense.