Make In India - Fighter Jet musings - News, Developments, Updates - F16,F18, Gripen, Any other

[Ankit Kumar 002]

a lot has changed since then thats all i can say now

List 2 things, for why we should opt another platform over Rafale deal.

 

[GURU DUTT]

List 2 things, for why we should opt another platform over Rafale deal.

well its very very confused in there right now nobody can say for sure what is to come but what can you be sure of is that (what i said almost 9 months earlier that we will have fully french built rafale in numbers similar as those of M2K in IAF)at least 36+18 and at least 36 in IN air wing while talks are in final stages for making of 100+ under MII

as i said before im not sure a yamrican fighter will come .... it might come and it might not come nothing is confirmed next 5 months ngociations will decide it

 

[Ankit Kumar 002]

well its very very confused in there right now nobody can say for sure what is to come but w can you be sure of is that (what i said almost 9 months earlier that we will have fully french built rafale in numbers similar as those of M2K in IAF)at least 36+18 and at least 36 in IN air wing while talks are in final stages for making of 100+ under MII

as i said before im not sure a yamrican fighter will come .... it might come and it might not come nothing is confirmed next 5 months ngociations will decide it

It may or may not. But if IAF needs another fighter, it will come through a unbiased competition , and they will need to qualify.


Personally I don't see 12 F16s a year from 2025 doing any benefit to us.

 

[GURU DUTT]

It may or may not. But if IAF needs another fighter, it will come through a unbiased competition , and they will need to qualify.


Personally I don't see 12 F16s a year from 2025 doing any benefit to us.

12 F16 from 2025 do not make any great news cause by then we will be having three lines of LCA (2+1) in full steam pumping out at least 40+ LCA per year

 

[Sri]

As posted by @PARIKRAMA earlier Prasun Sen post

Frankly I do not see both 'F' fitting into IAF. I expect Grippen will be the single engine fighter that will be signed. meanwhile MK will try to milk as much as possible to see how serious is Grippen
TX

 

[Hindustani78]

Empty Weight F/A-18E: 32,100 lb (14,552 kg)
Max Takeoff Weight 66,000 lb (29,937 kg)
Thrust Each engine up to 17,000 lbs
Carrier Bringback Payload F/A-18E: 9,900 lb (4,491 kg)
F/A-18F: 9,000 lb (4,082 kg)
Field Landing Weight Field Landing Weight
Speed Mach 1.8

Empty Weight F 35 : 29,098 lb (13,199 kg)
Max Takeoff Weight : 70,000 lb (31,800 kg)
Maximum thrust: 43,000 lbf (190 kN) max., 28,000 lbf (125 kN) intermediate
Carrier Payload : 13,000- 15,000 lb ( 5,895 kg )
Speed : Mach 1.6+




Three variants of the F-35 will replace the A-10 and F-16 for the U.S. Air Force, the F/A-18 for the U.S. Navy, the F/A-18 and AV-8B Harrier for the U.S. Marine Corps, and a variety of fighters for at least ten other countries.

The U.S. Air Force as well as the majority of our allied air forces and Foreign Military Sales (FMS) nations will operate the F-35A, replacing their 3rd and 4th generation aircraft.


The current international partners' planned quantities are as follows: United States, 2,443; United Kingdom, 138; Italy, 90; Netherlands, 37; Turkey, 100; Australia, 100; Norway, 52; Denmark, 30; Canada, 65. Foreign military sales customers' planned quantities are Israel, 33, Japan, 42 and South Korea 40. In total, the total number of F-35s scheduled for production is more than 3,100 Joint coalitions with fleets of fully interoperable F-35s will have the capacity to operate with unimpeded collaboration, while maintaining security and air superiority.


Republic of India is already considered as major non NATO ally of United States of America and on that even Republic of Turkey do have good relations with India .

So cant we go for F 35 instead of F 16 or F 18 ?

 

[sathya]

As posted by @PARIKRAMA earlier Prasun Sen post
View attachment 341462
Frankly I do not see both 'F' fitting into IAF. I expect Grippen will be the single engine fighter that will be signed. meanwhile MK will try to milk as much as possible to see how serious is Grippen
TX

Gripen is cheaper than F16 ?

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

Boeing offered to set up a plant with 100% ownership. India wont get any knowledge. India has enough knowledge of airframe, spares, even a bit on electronics. Its the engine we are lagging long behind. F18 wont really bring any tech in this present proposal.

 

[Hindustani78]

Since 2002, India has signed more than 20 Foreign Military Sales (FMS) cases for defense articles and services such as C-17 and C-130J aircraft, TPQ-37 radars, Self-Protection Suites (SPS) for VVIP aircraft, specialized tactical equipment, Harpoon missiles,Sensor-Fuzed Weapons, and carrier flight and test pilot school training. In less than a decade,and starting at zero, we have seen the FMS program grow to a combined total case value of approximately $6 billion.

The C-130Js delivered beginning in February 2011 are the first U.S. military aircraft to have been delivered to India in half a century and have already been successfully employed to provide critical humanitarian assistance following an earthquake in Sikkim in September 2011.As part of that sale, the U.S.Air Force (USAF) trained more than 100 Indian Air Force personnel– including pilots, loadmasters,and maintenance staff. Once the C-17 contract is fulfilled, India will operate the second largest fleet of C-17s in the world. The former USS TRENTON, which was transferred to the Indian Navy in 2007 and christened the INS JALASHWA, has helped the Indian Navy expand its amphibious and expeditionary warfare capabilities.

Lockheed Martin apparently made the presentation to India after authorization by the US Department of Defense (DOD), but Prins pointed out that the F 35 could be sold only after clearance from the US State Department, for which bilateral negotiations between New Delhi and Washington would need to be held once India expressed interest.

 

[Agent_47]

Already 7 to 8 type of A/C we are using better to concentrate on rafale, lca and su30mki after that fgfa and amca

No one is understanding this simple fact.
Too much verity of aircrafts = Too hard to maintain.

 

[Sri]

Gripen is cheaper than F16 ?

No but atleast Grippen is atleast half a generation ahead and costs more or less the same.

 

[newindiandefence]

No but atleast Grippen is atleast half a generation ahead and costs more or less the same.

OK let's compare what would be the cost of 36 -FA18,F16,gripen in latest version and Indian specific changes like rafale ....rate should be like rafale deal with weapon trening service Base..??

 

[Sri]

OK let's compare what would be the cost of 36 -FA18,F16,gripen in latest version and Indian specific changes like rafale ....rate should be like rafale deal with weapon trening service Base..??

It would be quite difficult to get exact figures but we can give some approx e.g.
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/a...ssible-deal-for-quotblock-61quot-f-16-395235/
UAE is paying 200 million per plane according to link and without tot or offset ( I guess),
Also taking flyaway cost of 70 million per plane in 2006 and adjusting inflation using http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=70&year1=2006&year2=2016 comes to around 84 million per plane in 2016
http://weaponsystems.net/weaponsystem/FF04 - F-16 Fighting Falcon.html
https://www.cdainstitute.ca/blog/entry/f-35-vs-super-hornet gives unit price adjusted as 155 million but if we consider below link for pricing
http://www.aspistrategist.org.au/jet-fighter-costs-a-complex-problem/ gives approx flyaway cost adjusted to be around 89 million$
If we look at Grippen price which was quoted for Sweden to be approx 70 million $, but this may not be the price which we may pay, I am keeping 80 million for calc and also 70 million
http://freerepublic.com/tag/saab/index

I am assuming india specific changes to cost the same, Infra, weapons, logistics approx

The above figures will be approx cost of 36 fighters similar to India's Rafale deal

 

[Thermobaric]

BENGALURU: Aerospace behemoth Boeing is getting a supply chain and the aerospace ecosystem ready as part of its proposal to the Ministry of defence to establish a modern production facility in the country to roll out advanced F/A-18 Super Hornets and next generation fighters best-suited for the next century, says Pratyush Kumar, president, Boeing India, and vice president of Boeing International.

On Thursday, Pratyush Kumar received the first electrical panel assembly manufactured for F/A-18 Super Hornets by Bengaluru-based SASMOS HET Technologies Limited as part of a multi-million dollar deal with the local small & medium enterprise. “We will not wait for the decision or orders, but are getting the foundation ready and creating the most globally competitive supply chain in India. We have 30-odd direct and 130 indirect suppliers, and are looking at them to source components and systems (for F/A-18 Super Hornets). Our philosophy is ground up, while others work on top down models,” he told to this newspaper. In view of MoD’s decision to scout for another fighter jet beyond the Rafale, Boeing’s proposal to roll out F/A-18 Super Hornets as part of the “Make in India” initiative now figures in government-to-government discussions. “Today’s delivery of the critical electrical panel assembly is a seminal event for us. Most people will tell you we will do this or that, subject to getting orders,” he said.

Not only F-18 but full assembly line for F-16 even in future F-35 but a big question as per Indian claims Tejas is 4.5 gen fighter why they are considering 3.5 or 4th gen jets?

 

[Ankit Kumar 002]

Not only F-18 but full assembly line for F-16 even in future F-35 but a big question as per Indian claims Tejas is 4.5 gen fighter why they are considering 3.5 or 4th gen jets?

Well actually its opposite. You will not see any RFI / RFP issued from our side , nor we have got any official word documented in IAF or MoD that we are looking for a new bird.

Its just them trying their luck. Which they will at last fail. I guessed them to be smart enough to stop this crap after the Rafale is inked, but...

As for LCA, the ADA/HAL and even MoD have mentioned it has 4+ generation aircraft capable of doing multiple roles in different threat environments, not 4.5.

It would be quite difficult to get exact figures but we can give some approx e.g.
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/a...ssible-deal-for-quotblock-61quot-f-16-395235/
UAE is paying 200 million per plane according to link and without tot or offset ( I guess),
Also taking flyaway cost of 70 million per plane in 2006 and adjusting inflation using http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=70&year1=2006&year2=2016 comes to around 84 million per plane in 2016
http://weaponsystems.net/weaponsystem/FF04 - F-16 Fighting Falcon.html
https://www.cdainstitute.ca/blog/entry/f-35-vs-super-hornet gives unit price adjusted as 155 million but if we consider below link for pricing
http://www.aspistrategist.org.au/jet-fighter-costs-a-complex-problem/ gives approx flyaway cost adjusted to be around 89 million$
If we look at Grippen price which was quoted for Sweden to be approx 70 million $, but this may not be the price which we may pay, I am keeping 80 million for calc and also 70 million
http://freerepublic.com/tag/saab/index

I am assuming india specific changes to cost the same, Infra, weapons, logistics approx

View attachment 341710
The above figures will be approx cost of 36 fighters similar to India's Rafale deal

The Swiss parliament when voting for Gripen C/D quoted each aircraft at 105 million USD fly away. And that's 4 years ago.

I put my all worth which I have on , with a support package , weapons package, training package , infrastructure package, Indian modifications , the E/F will not be more cheaper than 200 million USD per aircraft , and rolling out after 2025, they will be as useless as a crashed Mig 21 for us.

@waz @Oscar @WAJsal @Jango

Please merge this thread with the sticky thread we already have.

https://defence.pk/threads/make-in-...ents-updates-f16-f18-gripen-any-other.448850/