Majority of Pakistanis for 'Islamisation' of society: Poll

[muse]

I am at ease sir, you need not misjudge me. And my observations are not limited to this forum and its members. My observation is a reflection of the ground situation and of general psyche of the Muslim world.

That be the good news. However, my reading a thing won't change ground realities. If however you say that we will see change, then I have nothing to counter. I would only extend my well wishes.

Change is a given, of course - that's not the issue, it's what the change is about - and really it's not just one thing, all kinds of positions are evolving, changing --- Keep you eyes on the Wahabi and the Ikhwan connection - the Ikhwan have already changed much with the Wahabis but this has brought about reaction in places such as Syria - It's easy to see this malignancy of Islamism, as a monolith and immutable, that just not the case, whether by education, by persuasion or by bullets, multiple venues of change are inevitable.

Inside Pakistan, more people are becoming aware of the role of the state and in particular the army, in creating and shaping the Islamist identity -The Pakistani state is a failure and it has sought to deflect the attention of it's citizens of it's failure to provide for that citizenry by imagining the citizenry such that the victories of rich arbis are it's victories and the failures of the arbis are the hostile conspiracies of Islam haters -- and that is reason you see curious things such as Pakistanis expressing sympathies with Balestinians and Chechans, but not with bonded laborers in Sindh and Punjab, with Bosnians but not Christian and Hindu Pakistanis, with the criticism of Europe's fashion laws but not a whimper about the misogyny afflicting their own society --- So in a way, to these Pakistanis Islam-ism is merely slogans, it is devoid of substance, that is to say it is devoid of ethical and moral substance, and therefore you will read the determination and passion with regard to the infliction of sadistic punishments, but no debate about the doing of Justice and the laws relationship to that justice.

Half full or Half empty?? Yes, it's both at the same time, that is to say that we are better off embracing the complexity of the issue, instead of risking much of our understanding and going with less complex and ultimately, more fearful ideas.

 

[Zarvan]

Change is a given, of course - that's not the issue, it's what the change is about - and really it's not just one thing, all kinds of positions are evolving, changing --- Keep you eyes on the Wahabi and the Ikhwan connection - the Ikhwan have already changed much with the Wahabis but this has brought about reaction in places such as Syria - It's easy to see this malignancy of Islamism, as a monolith and immutable, that just not the case, whether by education, by persuasion or by bullets, multiple venues of change are inevitable.

Inside Pakistan, more people are becoming aware of the role of the state and in particular the army, in creating and shaping the Islamist identity -The Pakistani state is a failure and it has sought to deflect the attention of it's citizens of it's failure to provide for that citizenry by imagining the citizenry such that the victories of rich arbis are it's victories and the failures of the arbis are the hostile conspiracies of Islam haters -- and that is reason you see curious things such as Pakistanis expressing sympathies with Balestinians and Chechans, but not with bonded laborers in Sindh and Punjab, with Bosnians but not Christian and Hindu Pakistanis, with the criticism of Europe's fashion laws but not a whimper about the misogyny afflicting their own society --- So in a way, to these Pakistanis Islam-ism is merely slogans, it is devoid of substance, that is to say it is devoid of ethical and moral substance, and therefore you will read the determination and passion with regard to the infliction of sadistic punishments, but no debate about the doing of Justice and the laws relationship to that justice.

Half full or Half empty?? Yes, it's both at the same time, that is to say that we are better off embracing the complexity of the issue, instead of risking much of our understanding and going with less complex and ultimately, more fearful ideas.

For Pakistanis Islam is not just a slogan it's is a whole way of life and this secular propaganda will be answered very soon in Pakistan on the whole and these so called champions of humanity will run away

 

[muse]

Yes, Islamists have had plenty of answers for Pakistanis, just today answers in Peshawar and Islamabad and earlier answers to the three service men ripped to pieces by bombs, sorry, answers placed by islamists -- Maybe Arabia is ready for you guys, but wait, arbis don't think of you as anything but 3rd class, too bad for you.

 

[Zarvan]

Yes, Islamists have had plenty of answers for Pakistanis, just today answers in Peshawar and Islamabad and earlier answers to the three service men ripped to pieces by bombs, sorry, answers placed by islamists -- Maybe Arabia is ready for you guys, but wait, arbis don't think of you as anything but 3rd class, too bad for you.

Arabs have always stood for ISLAM and have fought for it but American Slaves don't not understand because their brains have stopped working because of usage of Alcohol and Pigs but Islam will rule Pakistan and Arab world and whole world and America and it's slaves will be defeated and defeated brutally

 

[SQ8]

Arabs have always stood for ISLAM and have fought for it but American Slaves don't not understand because their brains have stopped working because of usage of Alcohol and Pigs but Islam will rule Pakistan and Arab world and whole world and America and it's slaves will be defeated and defeated brutally

Im sure a certain Sharif actress can testify to the Arabs love for Pakistan and Islam.
Along with the now almost extinct Houbara Bustard..
not to mention Shamsi base..

 

[Zarvan]

Im sure a certain Sharif actress can testify to the Arabs love for Pakistan and Islam.
Along with the now almost extinct Houbara Bustard..
not to mention Shamsi base..

sir your goverments have handed it to UAE and do u really think Drons fly from their and if yes than they are flying without Pakistan consent because UAE is such a strong Country man give some valid point

 

[Zarvan]

Im sure a certain Sharif actress can testify to the Arabs love for Pakistan and Islam.
Along with the now almost extinct Houbara Bustard..
not to mention Shamsi base..

and I am not talking about puppets who are sitting in government but still I will say American Slaves will not understand this

 

[architect_cobb]

Islam does not like Nationhood because it divides Muslims and it was used by hypo crates to divide Muslims

and this is what you think or could you prove it based on Islamic history which spans more than 1400 years now. I posted in an earlier post and here I post again references that nationhood existed in Islam.

So did Quresh seize to exist after conversion to Islam or did they continue to identify themselves as Quresh?

After the VISAAL of holy prophet wasn't it Hazrat Abu Bakr and Hazrat Umar who decided with other Sahaba from Makkah that they caliph is supposed to be from Quresh and not Ansaar? Why was being a muslim simply not enough when we are talking about no one other than the best of the best ASHAAB.

During the caliphate of Hazrat Usman was it not his affiliation with his tribe Bannu Ummaya that resulted in the wide spread discontent among the rest of Quresh in Makkah and Medina since all the key posts and governorships were going to Banny Ummayya?

During Hazrat Ali's caliphate were the battles not fought based on tribal affiliation to Bannu Ummayya and Bannu Hashim?

Did the Ommayads not create a system of MAWALI where non Arab converts to Islam had an inferior status to the Arab muslims and had to pay different taxes?

Did Abbassids not accede to power under the slogan of "CALIPHATE FOR BANNU HASHIM"?

Please avoid distorting history and blaming gora for all of your wrongdoings!!!!!

This concept of curbing nationalism was introduced in the second half of the 20th century specially by the like of Akhwan to curb the nationalism movements specially in Egypt and Palestine. They have a political objective and are based on political interests rather than religions teachings.

 

[architect_cobb]

Arabs have always stood for ISLAM and have fought for it but American Slaves don't not understand because their brains have stopped working because of usage of Alcohol and Pigs but Islam will rule Pakistan and Arab world and whole world and America and it's slaves will be defeated and defeated brutally

Yeah fighting besides Lawrence of Arabia against the Ottoman Caliphate was indeed a great service to Islam.

Dude at least check the facts before you post anything. And refrain from commenting about history if your knowledge is limited to history lessons rendered in the Friday sermons.

 

[Zarvan]

and this is what you think or could you prove it based on Islamic history which spans more than 1400 years now. I posted in an earlier post and here I post again references that nationhood existed in Islam.

So did Quresh seize to exist after conversion to Islam or did they continue to identify themselves as Quresh?

After the VISAAL of holy prophet wasn't it Hazrat Abu Bakr and Hazrat Umar who decided with other Sahaba from Makkah that they caliph is supposed to be from Quresh and not Ansaar? Why was being a muslim simply not enough when we are talking about no one other than the best of the best ASHAAB.

During the caliphate of Hazrat Usman was it not his affiliation with his tribe Bannu Ummaya that resulted in the wide spread discontent among the rest of Quresh in Makkah and Medina since all the key posts and governorships were going to Banny Ummayya?

During Hazrat Ali's caliphate were the battles not fought based on tribal affiliation to Bannu Ummayya and Bannu Hashim?

Did the Ommayads not create a system of MAWALI where non Arab converts to Islam had an inferior status to the Arab muslims and had to pay different taxes?

Did Abbassids not accede to power under the slogan of "CALIPHATE FOR BANNU HASHIM"?

Please avoid distorting history and blaming gora for all of your wrongdoings!!!!!

This concept of curbing nationalism was introduced in the second half of the 20th century specially by the like of Akhwan to curb the nationalism movements specially in Egypt and Palestine. They have a political objective and are based on political interests rather than religions teachings.

because people of Quraish were the ones who were the first to stand and accept Islam that was the only reason other wise read the Khutaba and Sir curbing Nation Hood was not started By Akhwan and it was started by Hazrat MUHAMMAD SAW himself and in Islam politics if not seprated from ISlam Islam is has its own political system sir and the concept of Nation Hood was used by Munafiqs the most to divide Muslims read Islamic History in Detail ready the books
TAREEKH E TIBRI
TAREEKH IBN KHALDOON
TAREEKH IBN KASEER

 

[Zarvan]

Yeah fighting besides Lawrence of Arabia against the Ottoman Caliphate was indeed a great service to Islam.

Dude at least check the facts before you post anything. And refrain from commenting about history if your knowledge is limited to history lessons rendered in the Friday sermons.

Who is supporting Lawerence of Arabia here don't write irrelevant things here

 

[Zarvan]

and because of this nationhood tribes used to fight for many many years and used to kill thousand people from each tribes

 

[architect_cobb]

because people of Quraish were the ones who were the first to stand and accept Islam

So did Islam make an exception for the nations of QURAYSH? Could you post any references to that? As far as them being the first one, the first major boost Islam received was when people od Yasrib(Medina) embraced Islam and provided the newly converted few mulims with refuge and protection. So big was the event that Islamic Calendar starts with Hijra. So there was a distinction between Quraish and ANsaar. And yes that's nationhood. It was not curbed what was curbed was racism(considering oneself superior based on race) there is a difference between racism and nationalism.

that was the only reason other wise read the Khutaba and Sir curbing Nation Hood was not started By Akhwan and it was started by Hazrat MUHAMMAD SAW

As mentioned earlier nationalism existed even during the early days. Holy prophet did not ban tribal affiliations as he banned gambling or drinking. As a matter tribes continued to exist. Thats what is nationalism. In the khutba he however mentioned that in front of God all are equal.

himself and in Islam politics if not seprated from ISlam Islam is has its own political system sir and the concept of Nation Hood was used by Munafiqs the most to divide Muslims read Islamic History in Detail ready the books
TAREEKH E TIBRI
TAREEKH IBN KHALDOON
TAREEKH IBN KASEER

I have posted facts from history already, rather than quoting names refute the events posted or post examples from history to counter them.

 

[architect_cobb]

Who is supporting Lawerence of Arabia here don't write irrelevant things here

May be check his history and you would find out who supported him and why?

---------- Post added at 08:54 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:53 AM ----------

and because of this nationhood tribes used to fight for many many years and used to kill thousand people from each tribes

So can be said about religion and sects so should religion be abolished?

 

[Developereo]

@Zarvan,

Why do you think we have to abandon nationalism in order to serve Islam?

Don't you agree that you can serve Islam better if you yourself are healthy, strong, rich and well educated? Why not apply the same concept outward and accept that Pakistan can serve Muslim interests in the world better if it is strong -- techologically, economically, diplomatically and militarily?

Why not work towards a strong Pakistan as an intermediate goal -- a step towards the ultimate goal of a strong ummah?