What's new

Majority Muslims want Sharia law in their countries: Study

Status
Not open for further replies.
@hinduguy death penalty again is a serious matter in Islam...It is also given under conditions...Right now am busy can you ask me this during the weekend...I am not a law student, so I do not have my resources at my fingertips...

However, I will leave you with a few verses of the Quran which shows HOW IMPORTANT A HUMAN LIFE IS...It doesnt state the colour, caste, creed, religion, just says human...

Quran Surah Al-Ma'idah verse 32



Surah Al- Isra verse 33

I was not asking anything about death penalty, I was just replying to you post about non-muslim Indians demanding death penalty for terrorism. Its more to do with emotion(some people lost their dear ones) driven by hatred and revenge.
Similar post by many senior pakistani members(not sure about their religion but dont think it matters) can be found about TTP and BLA separatists( how they should be tortured and killed ASAP).
Not sure that proves effective in fighting terrorism or whether its a morally right thing to do.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Mullah-too-toos and Aytullah-hoo-hoos have been saying the same thing. Spend 20 years while sleeping with Arabic stuff and you will learn Sharia.

As a result many sincere non-Muslims like yourself don't make an effort.


so I urge you to not become a blind follower of Mullah-too-toos and Aytullah-hoo-hoos and simply accept that Quran is too difficult to understand.

It is not.

Just make sure not to make the same mistakes that so many Pakistanis (and Muslims) make. To pick one verse from Quran without reading the whole chapter or at least reading the section.

Like some fundoos from Pakistan just did while discussing Hijab and women. They are just sex crazed people. Ignore them.


Here I hope you can get started with the following from the chapter 24, "Noor" (Divine Light/guidance), or "Sacred enlightening/guidance"







O believers [of moral values and modesty]!

Do not enter a house other than your own without first announcing your presence and invoking peace upon the folk living in the house. That is better for you, that you may be careful [cautious]. (27)

[------ Focus on respecting privacy]


And don't enter the house if you didn't here back a permission. And if someone from inside specifically says "do not enter", then go back, for it is better for you. Allah knows what you do. (28)

[------ Focus on respecting privacy]

(It is) no sin for you to enter uninhabited [vacant] houses to get protection (from rain/snow etc). Allah knows what you show and what you hide. (29)

[-- Again the focus is on the respect for private property. ]


Tell the believing men to lower their gaze and be modest and protect their private parts [loins]. That is better for them. Lo! Allah is aware of what they do. (30)

[--- Focus on modesty. And Allah directs men first (guidance for women is in the following sentence)]


And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and be modest and protect their private parts [loins], and

to not flash jewelry (expensive clothing, flashy makeup) and

to cover their breasts (like don't flash cleavage) and

do not show your makeup/jewelry/clothes to men except the men of your own family.

And do not stomp your high heal shoes (as it attracts gaze from men who should not be eyeing you

And follow (these simple directions on privacy and modesty) so you are safe and protected (31)



Note: Quran tells women who could be the men of their own family as: own husbands or fathers or husbands' fathers, or their sons or their husbands' sons, or their brothers or their brothers' sons or sisters' sons, or their women, or their slaves, or male attendants who lack vigour, or children who know naught of women's nakedness.




Now tell me, please how many years do we need to understand these simpl simple simple simple directions.

Oh

And won't you find the same directions in any good household, told be "believing" parents of any religion??????


Didn't you hear the same from your Hindu parents?

Didn't they tell the same to your sisters/female cousins?



Remember Islam/Quran doesn't tell anything new. These are the same directions that were given through all other religions and faiths.


Hope this helps.


and keeps you safe from Mullah-too-toos and Aytullah-hoo-hoos. Amen.


peace to you


p.s. check out verses 1-26, and 31-???? to find out what else is being discussed in this chapter. Only then form your opinion. Thanks.
Mr some has to cover her body in front of those who fall in the category off na mehram but what is your point here ?

I was expecting the argument about death penalty, and whether it has any use in modern Indian society.
Lot of people are of the view it should be completely done away with(because once dead, you cant bring him back if found innocent) , but majority agree with supreme court, it should be given in rarest of the rare circumstances where the offense is so sickening that people lose faith in humanity (also the person has been found guilty without any doubt).
Death penalty in India requires lot of process and rigour very few are upheld in higher court due to the type of evidence required.

You just saw 2 instances of death penalty, there are hundereds of terrorists who are serving jail term. Some of them rehabilitated later by govt.

People say death penalty acts as deterrence where there is not much evidence to show it.
Its the certainty of punishment rather than quantum of it, which has some deterrence value.
If there is higher rate of conviction (say 80%) with 1 year imprisonment for theft, it will might reduce the opportunistic crime, rather than say 1% conviction rate with hand chopping as punishment. (yes, I made it all up, lol)

If you want to pursue each such stealing incident with such rigour, there will be very few conviction, thus losing the deterrence that you expected.
sir give death penlity like Islam wants to give kill the person in public and show it live on TV and also give punishment without being bias towards any or don't try to protect the rich and powerful than you will see the results and also teach Islam to people that will give them high morals
 
and terrorist are mostly ideological warriors so they the fight to give life but other murders or rapist is not ideological murderer or rapist
 
Mr some has to cover her body in front of those who fall in the category off na mehram but what is your point here ?

Ar you a woman? Then you should know about it already how and when to cover your body.

If you are a man, then why ask $tupid questions.


Thank you
 
Ar you a woman? Then you should know about it already how and when to cover your body.

If you are a man, then why ask $tupid questions.


Thank you

sir these are not stupid questions Allan and his rasool saw have told women how to cover up and in front of whom you need to follow Islam and stop coming up with funny answers
 
sir these are not stupid questions Allan and his rasool saw have told women how to cover up and in front of whom you need to follow Islam and stop coming up with funny answers

Sura Noor is complete in its description, if you truly believe in Quran.

However if you do not, then it is not something new.

Munfaiqeen (Hypocrites) and Kuffars (non-believers/deniers) used to mock Mohammad pbuh by asking $tupid questions like..

--- sooooooooo Mohammad, what if ?????

When should be women naked in front of other men and what type of men.

Soooo Mohammad, when should she do this or that.


So Mr. Zarvan please do not continue asking $tupid mocking questions like Munfaiqeen (Hypocrites) and Kuffars (non-believers/deniers) used to.


Thank you
 
@FaujHistorian: Surely reading quran will enable me to form the most Independent opinion(if I have the capability to understand) but most religious text tend to be too difficult to understand.
I have tried reading bits of bible and quran, they are as difficult to penetrate as Salman Rushdie's novels.
What I found is, you need to know the context to decipher what is being told, that context gets easier if you are of same background (say muslim, if you want to read quran). Else you need some guide to help you.

I never had any problem understanding 'geeta', possibly due to same reason.

While I agree that on many sharia laws there is significant unanimity among scholars, certain contentious ones have caused sharp division of opinion, and some of the laws being talked about here happen to be so(hijab for example). Even if I spend rest of my life reading, I wont be sure I am right abot those, I might form a strong opinion though, just like you or @Zarvan.

In any case, what we are arguing about is law to be enforced by state which might have some non-muslim population. Surely there is a need to simplify it.



Using your own example, you might need to read hindu scriptures to better understand theological view but surely you dont need to read it to understand 'hindu personal law' in India, and certainly not to condemn the practice of 'sati' which has been banned for right reason.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I can "comprehend" the usual indian tactics of wordplay and semantics and never looking at the spirit of an agreement.

Wordplay and semantics, as they do not agree with you!

At present, Article 25 of the Constitution of India describes Sikhism, Jainism and Buddhism as parts of the Hindu religion. Sikhs have long been seeking amendment to this Article to grant Sikhism an independent identity under the law.

In a significant move, Lok Sabha Speaker Meira Kumar today allowed Shiromani Akali Dal’s Khadoor Sahib member Rattan Singh Ajnala’s private member Bill to amend Article 25 of the Constitution to meet the community’s pressing demand.

Politicians playing politics.

I did not read your post in that context (ahmadis) but my objection was solely on misinterpretation (which I assumed was deliberate, but it seems it is confusing to lot of people) of Indian constitution.

It is a long read, not perfect, but I didn't had time to dug up anything better.

Eastern Book Company - Practical Lawyer

I am posting part of it.

II IDENTITY OF SIKHS, JAINS AND BUDDHISTS AS SEPARATE RELIGION

The Constitution of India under its Article 25(2)(a) empowers the State to regulate or restrict any political, economic, financial or other secular activity which may be associated with religious practice. Its Article 25(2)(b) empowers the State to make any law “providing for social welfare and reform or the throwing open of Hindu religious institutions of a public character to all classes and sections of Hindus”. Explanation I to Article 25(2)(b) says that the wearing and carrying of kirpans shall be deemed to be included in the profession of the Sikh religion. Explanation II of it says that in sub-clause (b) of clause (2) of Article 25, the reference to Hindus shall be construed as including a reference to persons professing the Sikh, Jain or Buddhist religion, and the reference to Hindu religious institutions shall be construed accordingly.

The use of the word “Hindus” in Article 25(2)(b) and the words “Sikh, Jain and Buddhist” in Explanation II have given birth to the controversy whether the latter are followers of religions other than the Hindu religion or that they are merely sects or sectional faiths which are a part of the larger Hindu religion?

It is to be noted that Article 25(1) deals with “religion”. The “Hindu religious institutions” referred to in sub-clause (b) of clause (2) must, therefore, be confined to the “Hindu religion”. This would necessarily mean that “Hindu religious institutions” would not cover the institutions of religions other than the Hindu religion. In Explanation II, the reference to “persons professing the Sikh, Jain or Buddhist religion” meant that persons following these religions were not legally persons following the Hindu religion. They would not have come within the coverage of Article 25(2)(b) but for Explanation II. The object of Explanation II, therefore, was “to widen the concept that Hindu religious institutions were broad-based and Sikhism, Jainism and Buddhism although separate religions could enjoy the right of temple entry”. This object would not have been achieved if Explanation II had not been enacted. In other words, because of Sikhism, Jainism or Buddhism being separate religions, they could not have been included among the Hindus in Article 25(2)(b) and, therefore, it was absolutely necessary to enact Explanation II to give the followers of Sikh, Jain and Buddhist religions the benefit of Article 25(2)(b) even though they belonged to religions other than Hinduism and their religious institutions would not be included in “Hindu religious institutions” but for Explanation II.

The Constitution Review Committee headed by Justice Venkata Chaliah recommended deletion of Explanation II to Article 25 so that the benefit of social welfare and reforms be provided to all classes and sections of these religions. In para 3.23.2 it states that after omitting Explanation II to Article 25, the sub-clause (b) of clause (2) of that Article should be reworded to read as follows:16

“(b) providing for social welfare or reform or the throwing open of Hindu, Sikh, Jain or Buddhist religious institutions of a public character to all classes and sections of these religions”.

Thus, in view of the Constitution Review Committee also Jain is a separate religion and not a part of Hinduism.

Again, one may argue that the followers of Sikhism, Jainism and Buddhism religions historically and culturally came out of Hindu religion and that the Hindu personal law applies to them, therefore, they are Hindus. As discussed above, it is clear that Article 25 recognized two different context in which the Sikhs, Jains and Buddhists could be treated as Hindus. This dichotomy of the Constitution in Article 25 was also maintained by Parliament in the enactment of the four statutes of the Hindu personal laws, namely, the Hindu Marriage Act, 1955; the Hindu Succession Act, 1956; the Hindu Minority and Guardianship Act, 1956; and the Hindu Adoptions and the Maintenance Act, 1956. Parliament enacted one section in each of these four statutes to maintain the dichotomy between those who are Hindus by religion and those who are Sikhs, Buddhists or Jains by religion even though the legislation would apply to all of them as the Hindu personal law used to apply to them before the enactment of these statutes. In enacting these four statutes the legislature expressly recognized that Sikhism, Buddhism and Jainism were religions separate from Hinduism.

In sub-section (1) of Section 2 of the Hindu Marriage Act, 1955 it is stated that this Act applies: (a) to any person who is a Hindu by religion in any of its forms or developments, including a Virashaiva, a Lingayat or a follower of the Brahmo, Prathana or Arya Samaj; and (b) to any person who is a Buddhist, Jain or Sikh by religion. The legislature, in Section 2, instead of stating as above, could have simply said that the legislation applied to Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists and Jains. Hence, as religion, the identity of Sikhism, Jainism and Buddhism have been recognized as that of separate religions.

The Indian Succession Act, 1925 has also recognized Jain as a separate religion. In its Section 20 it is provided that one cannot become capable simply by marriage to get benefit in the property of another partner of marriage and cannot become incapable of disposing of his or her property simply by that marriage. The above provision is a law relating to succession in which its sub-section (2)(b) reflects that the above provision would not apply to Hindu, Muhammadan, Buddhist, Sikh and Jain.

To cut it short, if Jain, Sikh or Buddhists were considered sub-sections of Hinduism, they would have required no mention.

@Joe Shearer, if you can give a better explanation, please.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
.....


Using your own example, you might need to read hindu scriptures to better understand theological view but surely you dont need to read it to understand 'hindu personal law' in India, and certainly not to condemn the practice of 'sati' which has been banned for right reason.

Yeap. I do.

This is why you won't find me asking vague questions (or mocking questions on Sati) about Gita or Hinduism. I think it is a beautiful religion at its core like every other religion.

Most parts I can understand by myself.

The rest,

Well how long does it take to find meaning of a term or word in google. few clicks may be.

Then I am blessed with friends from all faiths now. In case a term in Torah, Bible, or Gita is really difficult for me, I may ask a knowledgeable person from that faith. I won't come to PDF and pose mocking questions.

This is a great age we live in.

We must strive for and find knowledge as a "believer" and not as a "mocker" or hypocrite.

And no I am not pointing fingers at anyone.

Why do I need to anyways.

Thank you
 
Can you tell why the use of analogy, is there a story/reason behind saying that they are right hand possessions?

no story. Dear.



your "right hand possessions" means what you own.

Until few centuries back, it was ok to own slaves

So Chapter 24 verse 31 says that yes a woman could have her jewelry on while the slave is around the house like other close male relatives like father, or husband, or son.


hope this helps.
 
I was not asking anything about death penalty, I was just replying to you post about non-muslim Indians demanding death penalty for terrorism. Its more to do with emotion(some people lost their dear ones) driven by hatred and revenge.
Similar post by many senior pakistani members(not sure about their religion but dont think it matters) can be found about TTP and BLA separatists( how they should be tortured and killed ASAP).
Not sure that proves effective in fighting terrorism or whether its a morally right thing to do.
@hinduguy

THAT kid was an example! :blink:
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Sura Noor is complete in its description, if you truly believe in Quran.

However if you do not, then it is not something new.

Munfaiqeen (Hypocrites) and Kuffars (non-believers/deniers) used to mock Mohammad pbuh by asking $tupid questions like..

--- sooooooooo Mohammad, what if ?????

When should be women naked in front of other men and what type of men.

Soooo Mohammad, when should she do this or that.


So Mr. Zarvan please do not continue asking $tupid mocking questions like Munfaiqeen (Hypocrites) and Kuffars (non-believers/deniers) used to.


Thank you
sir you really need to study Islam and history sir hijab is the order of Allah and his rasool saw and Muslims have to follow and this order is in surah noor and ahzab sir and also in hadees sir and hazrt Umar ra used to ask prophet to ask women to wear hijab but he didn't than came orders first in surah noor than in ahzab and than he told himself too sir and now women have to cover in front off all name mehrams weather Muslim or non muslim
 
Can you tell why the use of analogy, is there a story/reason behind saying that they are right hand possessions?
@Kloitra have you NEVER read English literature? Seriously?
@Zarvan @FaujHistorian what are you 2 talking about? Seems like you both are on the same page but using different words :unsure:
 
Last edited by a moderator:
sir you really need to study Islam and history sir hijab is the order of Allah and his rasool saw and Muslims have to follow and this order is in surah noor and ahzab sir and also in hadees sir and hazrt Umar ra used to ask prophet to ask women to wear hijab but he didn't than came orders first in surah noor than in ahzab and than he told himself too sir and now women have to cover in front off all name mehrams weather Muslim or non muslim


As I said before,

Sura Noor is complete in its description, if you truly believe in Quran.


Thank you
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom