Major breakthrough on naval reactor + propulsion system

[Screambowl]

& the quoted articles were also debating about this capability only not about nuclear Pakistan's submarine project.

that's why I said it will take 10 years from now to induct a SSN in PN. Some one debated that , Pakistan's way of procuring is way different from India, yes it is. But when it comes to SSN you need to have battle groups, elf , vlf bases, and training.

AFAIK vlf or elf signals has nothing to do with detection. vlf communication requires a submarine to come shallow and slow its speed. that makes submarine vulnerable to detection whereas elf can penetrate to greater depths so it makes detecting a submarine difficult. elf or vlf signals are not direction specific. any submarine can recieve it anywhere within its range. only way you can detect a submarine that if it transmits back anything. on elf it is not possible bcz its just one way com.

Anyway you might know better.

http://fas.org/man/dod-101/navy/docs/scmp/part07.htm

Only if there is an efficient receiver and proper processing system like ECHELON Program.
Extremely low frequencies (ELF) are ideal for communicating with deeply submerged submarines because, below 100 Hz, electromagnetic waves penetrate deeply into seawater. Propagation at these frequencies takes place in the "waveguide" formed between the earth and ionosphere; low propagation losses allow nearly worldwide communication from a single transmitter. Atmospheric noise at these frequencies is caused entirely by lightning; the non-Gaussian nature of this noise has important implications for receiver design and performance. Because the ratio of ELF transmitter input power to radiated power is very low, it is important that the modulation/coding technique employed make very efficient use of received signal energy. Such an efficient receiver has been implemented on a small digital computer and has been used to receive messages aboard a submarine crossing the Atlantic Ocean.

IEEE Xplore Abstract










-
Long-range communications at extremely low frequencies

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

I said that because.. it takes 14 conventional vessels to keep a nuclear submarine on standby.Pakistan has only 11-12 right now in a fleet. Only after F22P arrive, which you have recently ordered, you will be able to send it on trials. And this will take 5 years.

2006: Musharaf announces that we will build a nuclear sub.

2008: News reports.


2012: Canisterised Babar CM tested.

2012: DESTO (Pak govt Ministry if defence site) reports long ranged version of Babar CM (basic versions range is 750 KM).

2012: Naval Strategic Command established.


2013-14: News (Pak TV) that Pakistan has started development of nuclear sub that will take 5-7 years.

 

[Screambowl]

2006: Musharaf announces that we will build a nuclear sub.

2008: News reports.


2012: Canisterised Babar CM tested.

2012: DESTO (Pak govt Ministry if defence site) reports long ranged version of Babar CM (basic versions range is 750 KM).

2013: Naval Strategic Command established.


2013-14: News (Pak TV) that Pakistan has started development of nuclear sub that will take 5-7 years.

what did I say, you will not get it before 10 years fully operation in your Navy from now. Hard to understand this?

 

[Oruc]

that's why I said it will take 10 years from now to induct a SSN in PN. Some one debated that , Pakistan's way of procuring is way different from India, yes it is. But when it comes to SSN you need to have battle groups, elf , vlf bases, and training.



Only if there is an efficient receiver
Extremely low frequencies (ELF) are ideal for communicating with deeply submerged submarines because, below 100 Hz, electromagnetic waves penetrate deeply into seawater. Propagation at these frequencies takes place in the "waveguide" formed between the earth and ionosphere; low propagation losses allow nearly worldwide communication from a single transmitter. Atmospheric noise at these frequencies is caused entirely by lightning; the non-Gaussian nature of this noise has important implications for receiver design and performance. Because the ratio of ELF transmitter input power to radiated power is very low, it is important that the modulation/coding technique employed make very efficient use of received signal energy. Such an efficient receiver has been implemented on a small digital computer and has been used to receive messages aboard a submarine crossing the Atlantic Ocean.

IEEE Xplore Abstract










-
Long-range communications at extremely low frequencies

Dear i am talking about detection not ability to receive it.

 

[Screambowl]

Dear i am talking about detection not ability to receive it.

even lightening create ELF, how would you be sure that it is produced by some military base?

 

[Oruc]

what did I say, you will not get it before 10 years fully operation in your Navy from now. Hard to understand this?

14 conventional vessels for a nuclear sub. wow.

Cant have an SSN or SSBN bcz you dont have ELF base.

Bro. You should really consider altering your signature a little bit.

 

[Screambowl]

14 conventional vessels for a nuclear sub. wow.

Cant have an SSN or SSBN bcz you dont have ELF base.

Bro. You should really consider altering your signature a little bit.

then how are you suppose to communicate with a sub, food supply, repair works.. network centric war fare, defence and covert ops? You always need a battle group dedicated to a submarine.

 

[Oruc]

even lightening create ELF, how would you be sure that it is produced by some military base?

Seriously That's your logic.

Lightening is not your ELF base. It produces a whole spectrum of atmospheric noise including VLF.

 

[Guynextdoor2]

wat Da Faaq? Miniature reactor news would for Subs, and then developments related to missles clubbed with it? Kya hai ye?

 

[Screambowl]

Seriously That's your logic.

Lightening is not your ELF base. It produces a whole spectrum of atmospheric noise including VLF.

please give a reason how would I know if ELF is created by a naval base or a lightening, unless until you process it and found to be a trash.

 

[Oruc]

then how are you suppose to communicate with a sub, food supply, repair works.. network centric war fare, defence and covert ops? You always need a battle group dedicated to a submarine.

If that is your whole rationale of having at least 14 vessels for a nuclear sub then....

I give up.

 

[Screambowl]

wat Da Faaq? Miniature reactor news would for Subs, and then developments related to missles clubbed with it? Kya hai ye?

na sar hai na pair hai .. inke hisaab se .. bass kisi tarah submarine lao.. missile fit karo or India par daag do .. lol

If that is your whole rationale of having at least 14 vessels for a nuclear sub then....

I give up.

not mine but US naval expirent, that why I told you go through post 107, as from fas.org. It is a nuclear submarine, not flying carpet.

 

[kaku1]

Seriously That's your logic.

Lightening is not your ELF base. It produces a whole spectrum of atmospheric noise including VLF.

If the submarine have to surface for communicating, like old ways, then whats the use of Nuclear propelled submarine.

It suppressing the very logic on which nuclear submarine are based.

wat Da Faaq? Miniature reactor news would for Subs, and then developments related to missles clubbed with it? Kya hai ye?

Its called How to make a nuclear sub in one day?

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

what did I say, you will not get it before 10 years fully operation in your Navy from now. Hard to understand this?

Why is that ? do you think we started the project today ? Unlike india we don't boas of the smallest things before even startin the project .. Look at the recent examples:

Pakistan interested in 90+ SH-1 howitzers. - 2012!

Pak took delivery of 36 SH-1's -2015 SIPRI.


Pak has A-100 MLRS - rumours on Internet.

A-100 seen at a military ex in 2013. (Shock).



HIT might work on a new arty gun 2012- news.

Pakistan stops production of Panter guns at 90+.. Cooperating with Turkey to develop an advanced light variant of panter- SIPRI 2015.

Pak working on "Burraq" UCAV -- 2012? Internet rumours - no confirmed sources - unnamed official.

Pak tests Burraq publically ( 1 sqd already in service).


Pak looking for 5-6 subs.

Pak approves 8 subs,4 improved F-22ps and 6 ATR (Meltam combat system).


..


So how do you evwn know that it will take 10 years when we have been hearing about it since 2006 (That's like 11 years since Musharaf announced the news).. With a Naval Strategic Force Command established in 2012? I would've surprised if we have it in service by 2017 or 18 .. or at max by 2020.

 

[Oruc]

please give a reason how would I know if ELF is created by a naval base or a lightening, unless until you process it and found to be a trash.

O bhai I am saying that equal if not more amount of vlf is also produced by the same lightening.