Majestic Su 30 MKI's - Night operations - HD footage

[anathema]

Oh boy! you seem like no abilities of talking on technical Matters of situation on 27 FEB like most Indian do here on PDF, ERIEYE was not flying on 2000-3000 feet above the ground, in fact it was fly higher, higher than Pir panjal range and your Mig-21 wasn't crawling in the valley floor that our ERIEYE hadn't see you Mig-21, you can't defy Physics or i think Indian will, Srinagar to LOC has a distance of 200 km or more Mig-21 takes times (few mintues)to Reach LOC and your MAHAN/Vedic Mig-21 has to climbed get out of this bowl like depression as you say, so it can be detected instantly when its get out by bowl like depression not only by ERIEYE but PAF ground based radars ( ANP-77/YLC-18 AESA), F-16's ANP-68V9 which is overlapping ERIEYE radar
and you know what is the meaning of AEW aircraft, AIR BORNE EARLY WARNING and control Aircraft which meant to be look further then enemy area better than ground based radars, that's some of the SAMs's RADARs has been put on the Mast to look further inside enemy airspace like your S-400 systems have some its radars mounted on elevated mast for better coverage
and as you say in your post our F-16 flying higher altitude (40'000 feet) than Mig-21 than its had better chance to detect your MIG-21 hich was flying lower altitude ( some Indian sources says 15,000 feet) earlier because of high altitude advantages and how can you your MAHAN/Vedic Mig-21 can detect our F-16 with limited coverage ( because its flying through the mountains which further reduce its radar range because pir panjal range has higher altitude than where your MAHAN/Vedic Mig-21 flying, dude you have nothing have to prove but you and your countrymen believes in fairy tails that fed by you Vedic IAF and your Govt

This is getting extremely embarassing to educate posters on basics. First learn to write proper english - its extremely hard to read and interpret your posts. It does not matter how ERIE was flying. For example (just an example) - Erie flying adjacent to K2 would never be able to detect fighters flying on the other side. Its a typical blinside that aviators around the world know or practice. Classic tactics in Gulf far, Iraq-Iran war and turk-greek skirmish was to lurk in the valleys adjacent to mountain ranges and jump the adversary when the time was right. Here's a fighter pilot podcast where they discuss these tactics - you can listen and understand https://www.fighterpilotpodcast.com/episodes/032-air-to-air-missions/ . The way to mitigate is ofcourse directly fly above the mountains , ranges OR have a static radar on the mountain itself which looks down. Its not rocket size - its basics.

So coming back - ERIE would not have been able to detect Mig21 airport due to mountain ranges and as soon as Mig21 which was climbing up and cleared the mountain ranges - it got detected by ERIE, F16 radars, etc etc..Comm intercepts clearly tell that ERIE controllers were surprised at Mig21 appearing on the scene.

Oh my god! that's shows you have no technical know how of the discussion Radar is the main senor to detect/track/and engage the targets with out it jet get blind, you say in your debate with @HRK , when taking off from Srinagar comm informed abhi that LOC was the Full of enemies, without proper detection/tracking by radar how can Abhi knows where is the target (and remember abhi Comm were by our EW and hence didn't receive any updates on his close airspace (SA)) so are you assuming Abhi blindly fired R-73 that's some how destroy our F-16 by luck, Rules of engagement doesn't allow in this scenario because you own jets (MKI/M-2000) were in the area, so there were a chance that Abhi's R-73 can hit your own jet (MKI/M-2000)
This post of your shows you have not ability to discuss the technicalities of the situation

You have no clue on air battle works , how radar works, how seeker works..dont you. Just coming over here with your broken english - and trying to make statements which are factually incorrect and downright foolish.
Controller sitting at IACC Amballa provides a full sitrep to Abhinandan while he is taking off. Constant communication is maintained with controller while Abhi is climbing. At this point controller informs him positions of bogeys last seen. Abhi has not yet switched on his radar - he depends on sit rep from Amballa controller. As soon as he clears Pir panjal ranges , 2 things happens. (1) His comms get jammed by your EW aircraft (Yes EW aircraft cannot jam aircrafts if natural barriers exist - its directional jamming and not widespread) (2) He senses comms are lot and turns his radar on.
Here he detects - aircraft flying below at the base of pir panjal ranges. This aircraft an F16 is trying to mount a surprise/sneak attack on indian ac's (classic tactic and a good one). Note :- Abhi does not if its F16 because his radar does not tell him that. All he knows its a bogey based on SITREP from Amballa. He knows there are no friendlies since MKI and M2K are further north/south of panjal. He takes the shot !
I have not said anything different - this is a complete air battle picture painted by IAF right the day after skirmish and is mentioned even in his citation. Story never changed. The less the better about ISPR stories.

Again you know nothing instead of farting Mig-21 has less radar range than F-16 even for our oldest F-16 block-15 (APG-66) which have radar range of 150 km and your Mig-21 has a radar range of 50-70 km, how can it be possible that your Mig-21 lit our F-16 by radar and F-16 pilot didn't knew that he was lit by Mig-21 radar on RWR, and Last thing why our F-16 get close to your MIG-21 its can easily detect/track/engage with AMRAAM F-16 far beyond the capability of Mig-21, so stop farting use your brain if you have

F16's were on BARCAP - it was escorting your strike package. That mission does not happen by sitting far away and launching missiles. Escort missions to clear the path gets in first and clears it of intruders. So your point about why F16 was so close to Mig21 is moot. ACM Paracha also said the same. Your force package was made up of 12-16 F16's - outof which some of them were responsible for OCA (they were the ones who launched AMRAAM's), some were BARCAPs, some were DCA.
Secondly your point about radar ranges is immaterial ! Mig21 climbing out mountain valley will never be detected , so no range is immaterial. As soon as it clears mountain ranges - it would be detected. It so happened that Mig21 detected F16 since it was close and vice versa.

This point are very valid, and if Abhi fire blindly R-73 so how hit possible that R-73 homes into target without its capability range, stop farting do some research before you bark here

aheeyy...Why would abhi fire blindly. Two types of R73 launch. (1) Passive launch - here seeker locks onto the AC and pilot launches the missile. Bogey never even knows hwat hit him. (2) Radar assisted launch - fighter a/c paints the bogey and launches R73; Here F16 would know coz RWR will be blarring. His citation says it was radar assited launch.

You know kid you know nothing about military aviation instead of
farting/barking at extreme range all BVR have enough momentum/kinetic energy to maneuver at least 20-30 Gs, and yes even transport plane can defend itself from BVR but only through ECM/ESSM/EW not through agility/maneuverability and tell me what transport plane has ability dance like F-16/MKI, go research kid than come here to bark
you have no capability to discuss on technical matters

Calling someone kid when you know you dont have the knowledge to debate is a tactic i have seen often in this forum.
BVR launched at Dmax1 range has motor burn of 10 secs approximately. After that it coasts through momentum and control surfaces. Any change in the direction of targetted a/c means loss of momentum of BVR missiles. It does not need extreme maneuveuring - it needs rapid change of course. If its Dmax2 then aggressive maneuveuring is required - you can read on cranking. Dmax 3 or lower is virtual NEZ. Thats the reason - airforces across the world consider launch of bvr missiles at Dmax1 as stupid - thats what PAF did.Tactically it might put MKI's on defensive - in that case its allright. But 5 or more AMRAAMS was a overkill - looks like they were scared. You are talking about research to me ?? Strange coming from a fellow who has not exhibtted any knowledge at all in this matter.

 

[Cuirassier]

Pardon me but you're dishonest in claiming that PAF fired 5+ AMRAAMs that day. We would have claimed equal number of jets if so.

This is getting extremely embarassing to educate posters on basics. First learn to write proper english - its extremely hard to read and interpret your posts. It does not matter how ERIE was flying. For example (just an example) - Erie flying adjacent to K2 would never be able to detect fighters flying on the other side. Its a typical blinside that aviators around the world know or practice. Classic tactics in Gulf far, Iraq-Iran war and turk-greek skirmish was to lurk in the valleys adjacent to mountain ranges and jump the adversary when the time was right. Here's a fighter pilot podcast where they discuss these tactics - you can listen and understand https://www.fighterpilotpodcast.com/episodes/032-air-to-air-missions/ . The way to mitigate is ofcourse directly fly above the mountains , ranges OR have a static radar on the mountain itself which looks down. Its not rocket size - its basics.

So coming back - ERIE would not have been able to detect Mig21 airport due to mountain ranges and as soon as Mig21 which was climbing up and cleared the mountain ranges - it got detected by ERIE, F16 radars, etc etc..Comm intercepts clearly tell that ERIE controllers were surprised at Mig21 appearing on the scene.




You have no clue on air battle works , how radar works, how seeker works..dont you. Just coming over here with your broken english - and trying to make statements which are factually incorrect and downright foolish.
Controller sitting at IACC Amballa provides a full sitrep to Abhinandan while he is taking off. Constant communication is maintained with controller while Abhi is climbing. At this point controller informs him positions of bogeys last seen. Abhi has not yet switched on his radar - he depends on sit rep from Amballa controller. As soon as he clears Pir panjal ranges , 2 things happens. (1) His comms get jammed by your EW aircraft (Yes EW aircraft cannot jam aircrafts if natural barriers exist - its directional jamming and not widespread) (2) He senses comms are lot and turns his radar on.
Here he detects - aircraft flying below at the base of pir panjal ranges. This aircraft an F16 is trying to mount a surprise/sneak attack on indian ac's (classic tactic and a good one). Note :- Abhi does not if its F16 because his radar does not tell him that. All he knows its a bogey based on SITREP from Amballa. He knows there are no friendlies since MKI and M2K are further north/south of panjal. He takes the shot !
I have not said anything different - this is a complete air battle picture painted by IAF right the day after skirmish and is mentioned even in his citation. Story never changed. The less the better about ISPR stories.


F16's were on BARCAP - it was escorting your strike package. That mission does not happen by sitting far away and launching missiles. Escort missions to clear the path gets in first and clears it of intruders. So your point about why F16 was so close to Mig21 is moot. ACM Paracha also said the same. Your force package was made up of 12-16 F16's - outof which some of them were responsible for OCA (they were the ones who launched AMRAAM's), some were BARCAPs, some were DCA.
Secondly your point about radar ranges is immaterial ! Mig21 climbing out mountain valley will never be detected , so no range is immaterial. As soon as it clears mountain ranges - it would be detected. It so happened that Mig21 detected F16 since it was close and vice versa.


aheeyy...Why would abhi fire blindly. Two types of R73 launch. (1) Passive launch - here seeker locks onto the AC and pilot launches the missile. Bogey never even knows hwat hit him. (2) Radar assisted launch - fighter a/c paints the bogey and launches R73; Here F16 would know coz RWR will be blarring. His citation says it was radar assited launch.


Calling someone kid when you know you dont have the knowledge to debate is a tactic i have seen often in this forum.
BVR launched at Dmax1 range has motor burn of 10 secs approximately. After that it coasts through momentum and control surfaces. Any change in the direction of targetted a/c means loss of momentum of BVR missiles. It does not need extreme maneuveuring - it needs rapid change of course. If its Dmax2 then aggressive maneuveuring is required - you can read on cranking. Dmax 3 or lower is virtual NEZ. Thats the reason - airforces across the world consider launch of bvr missiles at Dmax1 as stupid - thats what PAF did.Tactically it might put MKI's on defensive - in that case its allright. But 5 or more AMRAAMS was a overkill - looks like they were scared. You are talking about research to me ?? Strange coming from a fellow who has not exhibtted any knowledge at all in this matter.

 

[aziqbal]

PAF never underestimated IAF instead, challenged the notion of dominance in numbers or bragged quality and so also proven everyone with the same notion as wrong. Since, you have mentioned Rafale & Meteor, I will repeat that never underestimate the other side merely for the numbers or something too good on paper. It always depends upon tactics & training syllabus to come with counter. The word dominance was always there when IAF was shot down on that day of 27th Feb, 2019. The package did the job including bonus of 2 IAF shot down & plus a fratricide by India in panic. That is not a dominance.

very naive statement should give credit where its due

this was not a lucky shot and certainly was not bonus

swift retort was a planed and very well calculated operation by PAF

india panic because Pakistani jammers did their job

fratricide by India because Pakistan did great job in using decoys

India failed to respond because Pakistani had paralysed Indian electromagnetic spectrum

for Rafale the PAF chief said he has developed tactics for it

 

[anathema]

Pardon me but you're dishonest in claiming that PAF fired 5+ AMRAAMs that day. We would have claimed equal number of jets if so.

Thats the official IAF statement i believe. Given a choice PAF would have never admitted they fired AMRAAM - IAF forced them to change their statement and admit they used F16 and fired AMRAAM.

 

[Cuirassier]

Thats the official IAF statement i believe. Given a choice PAF would have never admitted they fired AMRAAM - IAF forced them to change their statement and admit they used F16 and fired AMRAAM.

Before that I don't believe the ISPR disclosed which jets fired A2A missiles. It just said the F16s were not involved in the operation, which as you remember was lobbing SOWs cross LC. Shootdown is result of IAF response, so in effect the PR chief tried to play with words.

 

[anathema]

Before that I don't believe the ISPR disclosed which jets fired A2A missiles. It just said the F16s were not involved in the operation, which as you remember was lobbing SOWs cross LC. Shootdown is result of IAF response, so in effect the PR chief tried to play with words.

Maybe - but he got caught. As a result - had to change in stance. There was a ticker running somewhere - on how many times ISPR changed its statements. Incase of IAF - no chage in statements, not once - till date.

 

[Cuirassier]

Maybe - but he got caught. As a result - had to change in stance. There was a ticker running somewhere - on how many times ISPR changed its statements. Incase of IAF - no chage in statements, not once - till date.

If I'm not wrong, the IAF initially stated all a/c and men were accounted for, later said that 1 was MIA.

 

[Balbir]

If I'm not wrong, the IAF initially stated all a/c and men were accounted for, later said that 1 was MIA.

That was news circulating in the media attributing to IAF sources. It wasn't official IAF statement.

 

[Ultima Thule]

This is getting extremely embarassing to educate posters on basics. First learn to write proper english - its extremely hard to read and interpret your posts. It does not matter how ERIE was flying. For example (just an example) - Erie flying adjacent to K2 would never be able to detect fighters flying on the other side. Its a typical blinside that aviators around the world know or practice. Classic tactics in Gulf far, Iraq-Iran war and turk-greek skirmish was to lurk in the valleys adjacent to mountain ranges and jump the adversary when the time was right. Here's a fighter pilot podcast where they discuss these tactics - you can listen and understand https://www.fighterpilotpodcast.com/episodes/032-air-to-air-missions/ . The way to mitigate is ofcourse directly fly above the mountains , ranges OR have a static radar on the mountain itself which looks down. Its not rocket size - its basics.

So coming back - ERIE would not have been able to detect Mig21 airport due to mountain ranges and as soon as Mig21 which was climbing up and cleared the mountain ranges - it got detected by ERIE, F16 radars, etc etc..Comm intercepts clearly tell that ERIE controllers were surprised at Mig21 appearing on the scene.

You're really stupid kid so you're trying to say bowl like depression of Srinagar continues through to LOC and ERIEYE wont able to detect your MAHAN/Vedic MIG-21, and ERIEYE flying high above Pir Panjal thus have to chive a good coverage range (CAN YOU TELL ME HOW LONG THIS BOWL LIKE FEATURE OF SRINAGAR IS AND DON'T TELL ME THAT THIS FEATURE RUN THROUGH SRINAGAR TO LOC) and we have overlapping radar coverage, this show you know knowledge even basic of Military aviation, your this posts based on only in assumptions, ridiculous claims
AND YOU POST THESE RIDICULOUS LINKS TO PROVE YOU ABSURD CLAIMS WORTH NOTHING, WHERE BOTH AIR FORCE HAD NO AWACS (IRAN-IRAQ WAR)/ (TURK-GREEK WAR) AND ONLY ONE OPPONENT HAD A AWACS (GULF WAR)

F16's were on BARCAP - it was escorting your strike package. That mission does not happen by sitting far away and launching missiles. Escort missions to clear the path gets in first and clears it of intruders. So your point about why F16 was so close to Mig21 is moot. ACM Paracha also said the same. Your force package was made up of 12-16 F16's - outof which some of them were responsible for OCA (they were the ones who launched AMRAAM's), some were BARCAPs, some were DCA.
Secondly your point about radar ranges is immaterial ! Mig21 climbing out mountain valley will never be detected , so no range is immaterial. As soon as it clears mountain ranges - it would be detected. It so happened that Mig21 detected F16 since it was close and vice versa.

THIS IS YOUR (INDIAN) VERSION OF INCIDENT, WE HAD ONLY 12 IN OUR STRIKE PACKAGE 6 JF-17 FOR ESCORT AND 6 MIRAGES, F-16 WELL INSIDE IN PAKISTANI AIR SPACE DOING CAP ACCORDING TO DGISPR AND CAN YOU HAVE LINK/SOURCE PLEASE ACM PARACHA SAID SAME, WORLD BUYS OUR NARRATIVE NOT YOURS A

ND LOCKHEED MARTIN/PENTAGON PERSONAL AT PAKISTANI BASES HAD BEEN CONFIRMED THERE WERE NO PAF F-16 WAS LOST AT 27/2/2019 CASE CLOSED
TYOU'RE THIS SCENARIO HAS SO MANY CONTRADICTIONS/FALSE NARRATIVES IN IT IF I CAN POINTED AT THESE SO IT WILL ENDLESS DEBATE, SO CASE CLOSED YOU HAVE YOUR JUNK NARRATIVE, WE HAVE MORE REASONABLE / LOGICAL NARRATIVE THAT'S WHOLE WORLD BUYS

aheeyy...Why would abhi fire blindly. Two types of R73 launch. (1) Passive launch - here seeker locks onto the AC and pilot launches the missile. Bogey never even knows hwat hit him. (2) Radar assisted launch - fighter a/c paints the bogey and launches R73; Here F16 would know coz RWR will be blarring. His citation says it was radar assited launch.

AND YOU SAY ON YOUR DEBATE WITH @HRK THAT ABHI NOT USED ITS RADAR AND NOW YOU'RE CONTRADICTING IT AGAIN AND YOU AGAIN ASSUMING SENSELESSLY THAT OUR F-16's RWR WAS BEING BLURRED WITH ANY PROOFS AGAIN YOU HAVE KNOW BASIC KNOWLEDGE ABOUT MILITARY AVIATION HOW ITS WORK

Calling someone kid when you know you dont have the knowledge to debate is a tactic i have seen often in this forum.
BVR launched at Dmax1 range has motor burn of 10 secs approximately. After that it coasts through momentum and control surfaces. Any change in the direction of targetted a/c means loss of momentum of BVR missiles. It does not need extreme maneuveuring - it needs rapid change of course. If its Dmax2 then aggressive maneuveuring is required - you can read on cranking. Dmax 3 or lower is virtual NEZ. Thats the reason - airforces across the world consider launch of bvr missiles at Dmax1 as stupid - thats what PAF did.Tactically it might put MKI's on defensive - in that case its allright. But 5 or more AMRAAMS was a overkill - looks like they were scared. You are talking about research to me ?? Strange coming from a fellow who has not exhibtted any knowledge at all in this matter.

YES I RIGHTLY THINK YOU'RE KID, MOST BVR INCLUDING AMRAAM/R-77 HAVE DUAL PULSE ROCKET MOTOR FIRST AT LAUNCH FIRST PULSE IS KICK IN FOR 5 SEC FOR ACCELERATING AFTER FIST PULSE FINISHED SECOND LONGER PULSE KICK IN FOR 21 SECOND SO WRONG ABOUT AMRAAM MOTOR ONLY KICK IN FOR 10 SEC YOU HAVE NO MILITARY KNOWLEDGE WHAT SO EVER AND CALLING YOURSELF AS AN EXPERT ON MILITARY AVIATION IS JOKE FOR US, YOU'RE NOT AN MILITARY EXPERT BUT MILITARY FARTER

 

[anathema]

If I'm not wrong, the IAF initially stated all a/c and men were accounted for, later said that 1 was MIA.

No ! IAF presser stated it lost Abhi who had gone across LOC. Also form

You're really stupid kid so you're trying to say bowl like depression of Srinagar continues through to LOC and ERIEYE wont able to detect your MAHAN/Vedic MIG-21, and ERIEYE flying high above Pir Panjal thus have to chive a good coverage range (CAN YOU TELL ME HOW LONG THIS BOWL LIKE FEATURE OF SRINAGAR IS AND DON'T TELL ME THAT THIS FEATURE RUN THROUGH SRINAGAR TO LOC) and we have overlapping radar coverage, this show you know knowledge even basic of Military aviation, your this posts based on only in assumptions, ridiculous claims
AND YOU POST THESE RIDICULOUS LINKS TO PROVE YOU ABSURD CLAIMS WORTH NOTHING, WHERE BOTH AIR FORCE HAD NO AWACS (IRAN-IRAQ WAR)/ (TURK-GREEK WAR) AND ONLY ONE OPPONENT HAD A AWACS (GULF WAR)

THIS IS YOUR (INDIAN) VERSION OF INCIDENT, WE HAD ONLY 12 IN OUR STRIKE PACKAGE 6 JF-17 FOR ESCORT AND 6 MIRAGES, F-16 WELL INSIDE IN PAKISTANI AIR SPACE DOING CAP ACCORDING TO DGISPR AND CAN YOU HAVE LINK/SOURCE PLEASE ACM PARACHA SAID SAME, WORLD BUYS OUR NARRATIVE NOT YOURS A

ND LOCKHEED MARTIN/PENTAGON PERSONAL AT PAKISTANI BASES HAD BEEN CONFIRMED THERE WERE NO PAF F-16 WAS LOST AT 27/2/2019 CASE CLOSED
TYOU'RE THIS SCENARIO HAS SO MANY CONTRADICTIONS/FALSE NARRATIVES IN IT IF I CAN POINTED AT THESE SO IT WILL ENDLESS DEBATE, SO CASE CLOSED YOU HAVE YOUR JUNK NARRATIVE, WE HAVE MORE REASONABLE / LOGICAL NARRATIVE THAT'S WHOLE WORLD BUYS

AND YOU SAY ON YOUR DEBATE WITH @HRK THAT ABHI NOT USED ITS RADAR AND NOW YOU'RE CONTRADICTING IT AGAIN AND YOU AGAIN ASSUMING SENSELESSLY THAT OUR F-16's RWR WAS BEING BLURRED WITH ANY PROOFS AGAIN YOU HAVE KNOW BASIC KNOWLEDGE ABOUT MILITARY AVIATION HOW ITS WORK


YES I RIGHTLY THINK YOU'RE KID, MOST BVR INCLUDING AMRAAM/R-77 HAVE DUAL PULSE ROCKET MOTOR FIRST AT LAUNCH FIRST PULSE IS KICK IN FOR 5 SEC FOR ACCELERATING AFTER FIST PULSE FINISHED SECOND LONGER PULSE KICK IN FOR 21 SECOND SO WRONG ABOUT AMRAAM MOTOR ONLY KICK IN FOR 10 SEC YOU HAVE NO MILITARY KNOWLEDGE WHAT SO EVER AND CALLING YOURSELF AS AN EXPERT ON MILITARY AVIATION IS JOKE FOR US, YOU'RE NOT AN MILITARY EXPERT BUT MILITARY FARTER

Did not even read your post and it does not deserve any further reply - not because i cant, but coz its a waste of time exchanging thoughts with a tinpot ! You have no clue how air combat works - to hide that deficiency you resort to calling others kids, typing in caps and using acronyms thinking that you are smart - all this in broken english which quite frankly is becoming difficult to understand. So carry on.

 

[Ultima Thule]

No ! IAF presser stated it lost Abhi who had gone across LOC. Also form


Did not even read your post and it does not deserve any further reply - not because i cant, but coz its a waste of time exchanging thoughts with a tinpot ! You have no clue how air combat works - to hide that deficiency you resort to calling others kids, typing in caps and using acronyms thinking that you are smart - all this in broken english which quite frankly is becoming difficult to understand. So carry on.

Go to bharat Bakbak forum for your conspiracy theories worth nothing, you even don't know about bacsic of Military, do even knows how the jets are being flied, ok, my English is not is good but your have so much contradictions in you false/stupid claims, you're here to only troll/rant against PAF and Pakistan with no logic and common sense, we have all AAMs in Mig-21 wreckage, and you're just assuming that Source out and present Fake R-73, so did you present fake Amraam wreckage which is prove to be Taiwan's Amraam

 

[dbc]

Abhi has not yet switched on his radar - he depends on sit rep from Amballa controller. As soon as he clears Pir panjal ranges , 2 things happens. (1) His comms get jammed by your EW aircraft (Yes EW aircraft cannot jam aircrafts if natural barriers exist - its directional jamming and not widespread) (2) He senses comms are lot and turns his radar on.

Here he detects - aircraft flying below at the base of pir panjal ranges. This aircraft an F16 is trying to mount a surprise/sneak attack on indian ac's (classic tactic and a good one). Note :- Abhi does not if its F16 because his radar does not tell him that. All he knows its a bogey based on SITREP from Amballa. He knows there are no friendlies since MKI and M2K are further north/south of panjal. He takes the shot !

So you claim the IAF Mig-21 popped over a mountain, detected a PAF F-16 at the base of the mountain and took the shot. A few fatal objections to this hypothesis:

1. The MIG-21 radar does not work against ground clutter. Plus its FOV is extremely limited.
2. The MIG-21 is not cleared to launch missiles /rockets while pitched down at -negative AoA due to concerns of engine flame out caused by hot gas ingestion from the missile exhaust.
3. The MIG-21 was found with its full complement of AAM missiles.
4. It could have been a civilian aircraft? Helicopter or a private plane?
5. Why hasn't the IAF pilot claimed the kill? Bizarre, most would be tripping over their own feet to claim an F-16.

The rest of your claims regarding the AMRAAM can wait for another day when I have time.

 

[anathema]

So you claim the IAF Mig-21 popped over a mountain, detected a PAF F-16 at the base of the mountain and took the shot. A few fatal objections to this hypothesis:

1. The MIG-21 radar does not work against ground clutter. Plus its FOV is extremely limited.

Again - where is this coming from ? What is the data point ? Anyways it does not matter.
F16 climbed out of Pir panjal ranges and located an F16 flying at lower altitude (base term was used to simplify explanation for the posters who just are not able to get the point). I am not talking nap of the earth flying - they were just at a lower altitude below the mountain ranges.
His official citation

Displaying exceptional air combat acumen and knowledge of the enemy’s tactics, Abhinandan scanned the low altitude airspace with his airborne intercept (AI) radar and picked up an enemy aircraft that was flying low to ambush the Indian fighter interceptor aircraft… Abhinandan alerted the other formation pilots towards this surprise threat

Above is from official citation from IAF.

2. The MIG-21 is not cleared to launch missiles /rockets while pitched down at -negative AoA due to concerns of engine flame out caused by hot gas ingestion from the missile exhaust.
Says who ?

Says who ? Are you saying that its not preferred or it cannot be done ? You claim statements which are not true - I have personally witnessed Mig21's diving and firing rockets. There are plenty of videos as well. Search vayushakti + mig 21 -- you will see videos which has Migs diving and firing rockets.
Anyways - there's a theory that Abhi after having fired R73 ejected coz of engine malfunction ! It wasnt a AMRAAM hit - but its a theory and it has small legs to it.

3. The MIG-21 was found with its full complement of AAM missiles.

Plenty of talks on this specific topic. Ruskies left behind a huge stock pile of War ammo in AFG - you dont think it will be difficult to pull it out from storage - do you ? It started out with grainy photographs of missiles (when there was no need for one) - once ISPR determined that this theory is sticking around then they published hi-def pics recently after a full year. Who can forget when ISPR bots cried horse that AMRAAM that IAF showed was a Taiwanese one.
And lastly - ISPR has officially refused to accuse IAF ; They have never come on the record with serial numbers and accused IAF of lying - they will not do it, coz deep down they know they cannot retrace it back

4. It could have been a civilian aircraft? Helicopter or a private plane?

You mean the plane that Abhi shot down ? Yes certainly. Abhi never knew what kind of aircraft he shot down. He saw the symbology on his display and launched a radar assisted missile. IAF chief is on record stating that Mig21 does not have "non cooperative aircraft identification technology". Mig21 does not know if its F16 of JF17 or a transport a/c. The fact that it was F16 was corborated with comm intercepts, radar intercepts from phalcon, ground radars positioned on mountains and soldiers positioned across 3 places which saw the plane falling down. I am not saying anything new - this is the official briefing of IAF after the incident. It has not changed its stance even once. The entire Su30 nonsense that you are seeing on this forum is to essentially counter F16 claim - thats it and yeah placate the masses

5. Why hasn't the IAF pilot claimed the kill? Bizarre, most would be tripping over their own feet to claim an F-16.

Huh ? i dont understand this. Kill has been awarded to him. If you are talking about why he has not come for interview - IAF is archaic organization. I have made this point multiple times - information/PR is not their forte. PAK forces are way ahead in this department. If you notice - there have been no tv interviews of pilots who bombed balakot or abhinandans. It's just the way things are. If its something else then i am not sure what you are talking about.

 

[dbc]

Again - where is this coming from ? What is the data point ? Anyways it does not matter.

Says who ? Are you saying that its not preferred or it cannot be done ? You claim statements which are not true - I have personally witnessed Mig21's diving and firing rockets. There are plenty of videos as well. Search vayushakti + mig 21 -- you will see videos which has Migs diving and firing rockets.

USAF and USN have a lot of combat experience with the Mig-21. The Mig-21 radar does not work -1.5° below horizon. The hot powder gas injection into the engine issues is a common problem with Russian engines more pronounced in the Mig-21 dues to the position of its air intake and...well... lousy engine.

Where is this coming from? This is not information you will find online. My source is a friend and a former Egyptian Mig-21 pilot who later transitioned to the F-16.

IAF Mig-27 belonging to squadron 9 crashed due to hot gas ingestion while firing 80mm rockets at enemy position on the mountain during the Kargil war 1999.

Don't believe everything you see on youtube.

 

[anathema]

USAF and USN have a lot of combat experience with the Mig-21. The Mig-21 radar does not work -1.5° below horizon. The hot powder gas injection into the engine issues is a common problem with Russian engines more pronounced in the Mig-21 dues to the position of its air intake and...well... lousy engine.

I know what you are talking about. and yes - the issue exists. But the envelope of aircraft is not restricted coz of that. Pilots do dive and fire rockets. You have source - but i have personally seen them firing rockets in dive mode. This issue was more pronounced in flogger ! and yet IAF pilots do fire rockets in dive mode. Diving is not a problem and your radar FOV is not a problem if you are in a dive mode. Further USAF and USN had experience in older fishbeds - they did experience Bi's in cope india and were pleasantly surprised.

IAF Mig-27 belonging to squadron 9 crashed due to hot gas ingestion while firing 80mm rockets at enemy position on the mountain during the Kargil war 1999.

Like i said - more pronounced in Flogger. All IAF pilots that i know off mention it when they talk about flogger. You can check their twitter accounts

Don't believe everything you see on youtube.

- i do believe my own eyes though