Calm down there is nothing he said that is offensive, he has his point of view and we have our's.
Main bhi KAFIR tu bhi KAFIR
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Calm down there is nothing he said that is offensive, he has his point of view and we have our's.
Sky lord
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Eeesh!! stop this, don't be such a spinster with a mouse running up your skirt. Go to some other thread if you don't like it here. I want to hear what Doc has to say on the conquest of Persia.
Aramagedon
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His comments are anti Islamic and insulting to Islam.
Magoosh (Zoroastrian) is a monotheism religion and is mentioned in Quran only once besides Christianity and Judasm which shows it's an Abrahamic religion. The reason that it's mentioned only once in Quran is that, God knew Iranians will become muslims very soon but Christians and Jews will remain on their religion till arrival of Imam Mahdi (PBUH).He is an Indian gujrati who just wishes iran was still a Zorastrian majority country
I don't know why a troll here said it's fire worshipping while Zoroastrian is absolutely a Monotheism religion and Zoroastrians believe in one God, hereafter and even pray for God in 5 times of a day. They respect fire because it turned itself to a beautiful garden for Prophet Ibrahim (PUBH) when Nimrud throw him into it. Also they know fire as symble of light and goodness from God which is opposed to evil, darkness and ignorance from devil.
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Imam Hussain (PBUH) grandson of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) had an Iranian wife who was daughter of Yazdgird the last Sasanid king. It means that 9 of Shia Imams are half Iranian and this is so much proud of Iranians and shows linkage of Iranians to Ahlulbayt (PBUH). Everything that Ahlulbayt do is by order of God and we are so proud about linkage of Ahlulbayt to Iranians. Daughter of Yazdgird lady Sharbanu (PBUH) was a very religious Muslim girl. After martyrdom of Imam Hussain she came back to Rey (South of Tehran) and told event of Karbala to Iranians which caused many Iranians to be Alawite and Shias.
There arev many (around 7000) Imamzade (son and grandsons of 12 imams) buried in Iran and they have all beautiful shrines. Also Imam Reza (PBUH) eighth Imam lived in Khorasan of Iran, and her sister in Qum and his brother in Shiraz. We have also a very beloved Imamzade in Rey who is son of Imam Hadi (PBUH) the tenth imam.
Also there is a mosque in Qum (Jamkaran) that Shias believe Imam Mahdi (PBUH) visit that mosque every friday.
There are lots of hadiths from Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) and Ahlulbayt in praise of Iranians. I will put them with sources in the further days. Thank God that they have praised their humble Shia followers.
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vsdoc
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@Color_Less_Sky @fakhre mirpur @jamahir
I've noted that I feel mellower later in the day than I do early in the morning.
Note to self:
Do not comment on Islam and Zoroastrianism, Arabs and Persians, first thing in the morning
Do not comment the first thing that comes to mind while doing potty, either easy or strained
Do not comment first thing in morning before having first mug of strong coffee
Reach for newspaper first thing in the morning rather than smartphone (need reading glasses for both)
Read only first thing in the morning and leave the replies for later in the day
Thoughts flow better on my laptop than on my smartphone, esp. when the sphincter at one end is shored up
Get some food into the system before talking about Arabs or their customs or dietary habits or faith or God
Cheers, Doc
P.S. Meanwhile let me read up on this doopelganger chap and see what the fuss about him is all about. Is he a regular here? Brains? Wit? Balls?
I've noted that I feel mellower later in the day than I do early in the morning.
Note to self:
Do not comment on Islam and Zoroastrianism, Arabs and Persians, first thing in the morning
Do not comment the first thing that comes to mind while doing potty, either easy or strained
Do not comment first thing in morning before having first mug of strong coffee
Reach for newspaper first thing in the morning rather than smartphone (need reading glasses for both)
Read only first thing in the morning and leave the replies for later in the day
Thoughts flow better on my laptop than on my smartphone, esp. when the sphincter at one end is shored up
Get some food into the system before talking about Arabs or their customs or dietary habits or faith or God
Cheers, Doc
P.S. Meanwhile let me read up on this doopelganger chap and see what the fuss about him is all about. Is he a regular here? Brains? Wit? Balls?
Last edited:
Peaceful Civilian
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Aor mein b kafir. lolzzzz
I have nothing against you doc if you are bitter or mellower it does not matter, you cannot be jolly all the time. And when I am replying in morning I am all ready for work at that time meaning...................... potty check, breakfast check, tea check, driving to work place check, good mornings to colleagues check, early staff meeting check, least interested in newspapers and news channels however watch Nik or cartoon network with kids while breaking the fast. And you don't need to worry about doppelganger most of the people did not like him but apni ghari chinti thi uss kay sath.
Buddy you have been advocating your thoughts in all most all the threads, now that you agree Hazrat Hussain (RA) did marry a princess i.e. Shehrbano a daughter of yazdgard, care to explain how it can happen under rule of Hazrat Umer Farooq (RA) as a caliph? After all Hazrat Umer per most of your history was not nice towards them?
vsdoc
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The Iranian Identity Crisis: Islam V. Persian Identity
Paolo Bassi
2005/10/03
Since the 1979 Islamic Revolution the West has presented, with depressing consistency, a distorted image of Iran portraying it as a seething mass of islamic fanaticism. Those unaware of Iran 's history could be forgiven for believing that Iran knows nothing but Islam. The reality is far more complex and hopeful. Publicly most Iranians accept their Islamic identity, however, most are also aware of their pre-Islamic Persian identity. The tension between these competing identities has existed since the Arab-Islamic takeover of Iran in the seventh century AD.
In 632 A.D., the founder of Islam, Mohammad, died but left his new Islamic state in Arabia with a clear message to conquer, convert and subdue all other faiths. The Muslim Arabs, armed with their new Islamic faith, and hungry for land and wealth, unleashed a devastating war of conquest and within 30 years they had conquered a huge empire stretching from North Africa to N.W. India. The Arab conquerors imposed Islam so successfully that the pre-Islamic history of the conquered peoples was virtually erased from the historic consciousness. The Arabs did not seek mere military conquest but also sought to conquer the culture and identity of the defeated nations. Islam was to have no serious rivals. The political nature of Islam demanded that a conquered people, such as the Iranians, not only convert to Islam but also to regard its past history as a time of darkness before the light of Islam came. In attacking Iranian identity, one of the most infamous acts of the Arab invaders was to burn Persian libraries with centuries of collected books. The Islamic logic to justify this vandalism was that if Persian knowledge agreed with the Koran, then these Persian books were superfluous and if they contradicted the Koran, then they should be destroyed. An unbeatable argument.
Islam required conquered people to scorn their own past and love their Islamic Arab conquerors by striving to imitate them. More importantly, the Koran is written in arabic and Islam's sacred places, Mecca and Medina , are in Arabia . It was clear that the conquered and newly converted had to accept the primacy of the arabic language, arabic values and Arabia . After all, Mohammad was an arab and since Islam regards him as the best example of a human, arab values cannot be rejected, without implicitly rejecting Islam and Mohammad. Islam as an imperial culture brought deeper and more profound psychological changes to the cultures it conquered than European colonialism ever could.
Along with Islam's cultural demands, its political ambition was to include all Muslims in an Islamic world without borders, in which the only permissible political allegiance was to the world-wide Muslim community and Allah. There was no place in such a world for a conquered people's pre-islamic history or national identity.
After the arrival of Islam , Iran faced the most critical test in its history. Would its ancient Zoroastrian culture survive or would Islam and arab culture replace the unique Iranian identity. Alternatively, could Iran somehow transform Islam into a palatable Iranian form? These questions have characterized Iran since the Islamic takeover. It is true, Islam has become the dominant cultural force, yet Iranian identity, rooted in its Zoroastrian past, has never quite conceded defeat. The tension remains to this day. For example "no ruz" or the Persian new year (based on a Zoroastrian practice) is condemned by the Islamic clerics as a pagan practice, yet is widely celebrated. In addition, the achievements of the ancient Achaemenian period (whose empire was conquered by Alexander the Great in the 4th Century B.C.) and its classical civilization, have never left the Persian collective psyche. The ruins of Persepolis are a constant reminder that there was great Iranian past a thousand years before Islam as even born. Not even the mullahs can deny evidence that is carved in rock.
During the Abbassid, Ferdowsi (b.935), perhaps Iran 's greatest amongst many great poets, wrote the epic "Shahnameh" (story of kings) and reclaimed the Persian past and language from arabic influence. Ferdowsi's poetry openly proclaims the superiority of Persian culture and laments the arab invasion. He accepts Islam itself as a fact of life without directly criticizing its teachings. However, Ferdowsi has nothing but contempt for the arabs themselves and cannot forgive them. At times Ferdowsi's poetry even condemns the imposition of Islam itself. It is paradoxical that Ferdowsi's tomb is still revered by Iranians despite Iran being an Islamic theocracy.
Islam's relegation of the pre-islamic past of the non-arab peoples it conquered, to an era of "darkness" was one of the major themes of the Indian author, V.S. Naipaul's Nobel Prize winning books, "Among the Believers' and "Beyond Belief". Naipaul proposes that conquered peoples, such as the Iranians and Indonesians, had been separated by Islam from their complete and true historical past, and removed again by European colonialism and this disconnect has resulted in an inner anxiety and crisis of identity. Take for example Islamist movements in Indonesia and Phillippines, in which young Asian Muslims imitate Arabic appearance and call for Israel 's destruction, yet they have no ethnic, cultural or historic connection with arab Palestinians. Both Islamic and subsequent western colonialism, according to Naipaul, have robbed the "conquered peoples" from their true selves, such that there is an inner loss of identity and a yearning to belong to some cause.
There have been times when Iran has dared to remember its past. In 1926, Reza Khan was crowned the first Pahlavi King of Iran and as part of his reforms he made it clear that he regarded Islam as a foreign imposed faith that should not determine Iran 's identity. As part of his attack on Islam, Reza Khan connected his new Iran with the ancient Zoroastrian past. The Farsi language was purged of arabic words, architecture began to take inspiration from ancient Achaemenian styles and schoolbooks were re-written to enhance an Iranian identity. Cities were renamed with Persian names, parents were encouraged to give Persian, and not arabic, names to their children. In 1935 Persia itself was renamed Iran , as it was known in the days of Cyrus the Great. These reforms were of course reversed after the 1979 Islamic Revolution.
It conclusion, it seems that Iranian history has swung back and forth between its Arab imposed Islamic identity and its older Zoroastrian era Persian culture. The latter simply refuses to die. Just as an individual struggles with conflicting loyalties and identities until they are reconciled, so do entire nations and cultures. As long as Iran 's ancient identity is denied and denigrated, Iranian public life will be dishonest and contradictory. According to Islam, all history before Islam was an era of "darkness" and should be discarded. This is a frightening Orwellian belief, that the world witnessed first hand with the Taliban's destruction of the Bamiyan Buddha statues. If the Iran past is to regain its rightful place, it must be prepared to attack this identity-destroying aspect of Islam.
http://www.faithfreedom.org/oped/PaoloBassi51003.htm
I agree with some of these thoughts, but written by a foreigner, they lack depth.
I of course have the luxury of seeing two ancient faiths and civilizations and peoples butting heads with Islam and can appreciate the subtle differences and delicious ironies they both put on offer.
Cheers, Doc
P.S. Zoroastrianism is an ancient Aryan faith.
Abrahmic faiths were borne and grew among Semitic peoples.
There is a world of difference.
Of blood. And time.
Hence the delicious irony for Iranians. Especially Muslim Persians.
They hate Arabs. Look down on them with some serious racial venom as a crude and savage people. Strong and very deep ancient blood supremacist venom.
And yet they have been passed on a faith that is Arabic. By Arabs. Written in Arabic. Prayed to in Arabic. The holiest sites all Arabic.
And still buying into the existence of One God. Only now they call him Allah and not Ahura Mazda. Forgetting the teachings of their own Zarathustra, and revering those of Muhammad. Who was? An Arab.
Does that change anything really?
How do you hate and look down on a people so completely, so totally. For all of remembered civilizational memory. As lesser beings.
Yet now practice the faith those same lesser beings imposed on to you by the sword and conquest militarily?
By practicing some seriously imaginative revisionism over a millennium. Institutionalize it over centuries. Destroy systematically all trappings of past glory and umbrella lump it under "dark past" as something universally reviled. And claim to love the faith and its Prophet, both of which come from and are of that you cannot and could never consider your equals.
Its different for Indic converts of course.
Maybe another post some other time.
Paolo Bassi
2005/10/03
Since the 1979 Islamic Revolution the West has presented, with depressing consistency, a distorted image of Iran portraying it as a seething mass of islamic fanaticism. Those unaware of Iran 's history could be forgiven for believing that Iran knows nothing but Islam. The reality is far more complex and hopeful. Publicly most Iranians accept their Islamic identity, however, most are also aware of their pre-Islamic Persian identity. The tension between these competing identities has existed since the Arab-Islamic takeover of Iran in the seventh century AD.
In 632 A.D., the founder of Islam, Mohammad, died but left his new Islamic state in Arabia with a clear message to conquer, convert and subdue all other faiths. The Muslim Arabs, armed with their new Islamic faith, and hungry for land and wealth, unleashed a devastating war of conquest and within 30 years they had conquered a huge empire stretching from North Africa to N.W. India. The Arab conquerors imposed Islam so successfully that the pre-Islamic history of the conquered peoples was virtually erased from the historic consciousness. The Arabs did not seek mere military conquest but also sought to conquer the culture and identity of the defeated nations. Islam was to have no serious rivals. The political nature of Islam demanded that a conquered people, such as the Iranians, not only convert to Islam but also to regard its past history as a time of darkness before the light of Islam came. In attacking Iranian identity, one of the most infamous acts of the Arab invaders was to burn Persian libraries with centuries of collected books. The Islamic logic to justify this vandalism was that if Persian knowledge agreed with the Koran, then these Persian books were superfluous and if they contradicted the Koran, then they should be destroyed. An unbeatable argument.
Islam required conquered people to scorn their own past and love their Islamic Arab conquerors by striving to imitate them. More importantly, the Koran is written in arabic and Islam's sacred places, Mecca and Medina , are in Arabia . It was clear that the conquered and newly converted had to accept the primacy of the arabic language, arabic values and Arabia . After all, Mohammad was an arab and since Islam regards him as the best example of a human, arab values cannot be rejected, without implicitly rejecting Islam and Mohammad. Islam as an imperial culture brought deeper and more profound psychological changes to the cultures it conquered than European colonialism ever could.
Along with Islam's cultural demands, its political ambition was to include all Muslims in an Islamic world without borders, in which the only permissible political allegiance was to the world-wide Muslim community and Allah. There was no place in such a world for a conquered people's pre-islamic history or national identity.
After the arrival of Islam , Iran faced the most critical test in its history. Would its ancient Zoroastrian culture survive or would Islam and arab culture replace the unique Iranian identity. Alternatively, could Iran somehow transform Islam into a palatable Iranian form? These questions have characterized Iran since the Islamic takeover. It is true, Islam has become the dominant cultural force, yet Iranian identity, rooted in its Zoroastrian past, has never quite conceded defeat. The tension remains to this day. For example "no ruz" or the Persian new year (based on a Zoroastrian practice) is condemned by the Islamic clerics as a pagan practice, yet is widely celebrated. In addition, the achievements of the ancient Achaemenian period (whose empire was conquered by Alexander the Great in the 4th Century B.C.) and its classical civilization, have never left the Persian collective psyche. The ruins of Persepolis are a constant reminder that there was great Iranian past a thousand years before Islam as even born. Not even the mullahs can deny evidence that is carved in rock.
During the Abbassid, Ferdowsi (b.935), perhaps Iran 's greatest amongst many great poets, wrote the epic "Shahnameh" (story of kings) and reclaimed the Persian past and language from arabic influence. Ferdowsi's poetry openly proclaims the superiority of Persian culture and laments the arab invasion. He accepts Islam itself as a fact of life without directly criticizing its teachings. However, Ferdowsi has nothing but contempt for the arabs themselves and cannot forgive them. At times Ferdowsi's poetry even condemns the imposition of Islam itself. It is paradoxical that Ferdowsi's tomb is still revered by Iranians despite Iran being an Islamic theocracy.
Islam's relegation of the pre-islamic past of the non-arab peoples it conquered, to an era of "darkness" was one of the major themes of the Indian author, V.S. Naipaul's Nobel Prize winning books, "Among the Believers' and "Beyond Belief". Naipaul proposes that conquered peoples, such as the Iranians and Indonesians, had been separated by Islam from their complete and true historical past, and removed again by European colonialism and this disconnect has resulted in an inner anxiety and crisis of identity. Take for example Islamist movements in Indonesia and Phillippines, in which young Asian Muslims imitate Arabic appearance and call for Israel 's destruction, yet they have no ethnic, cultural or historic connection with arab Palestinians. Both Islamic and subsequent western colonialism, according to Naipaul, have robbed the "conquered peoples" from their true selves, such that there is an inner loss of identity and a yearning to belong to some cause.
There have been times when Iran has dared to remember its past. In 1926, Reza Khan was crowned the first Pahlavi King of Iran and as part of his reforms he made it clear that he regarded Islam as a foreign imposed faith that should not determine Iran 's identity. As part of his attack on Islam, Reza Khan connected his new Iran with the ancient Zoroastrian past. The Farsi language was purged of arabic words, architecture began to take inspiration from ancient Achaemenian styles and schoolbooks were re-written to enhance an Iranian identity. Cities were renamed with Persian names, parents were encouraged to give Persian, and not arabic, names to their children. In 1935 Persia itself was renamed Iran , as it was known in the days of Cyrus the Great. These reforms were of course reversed after the 1979 Islamic Revolution.
It conclusion, it seems that Iranian history has swung back and forth between its Arab imposed Islamic identity and its older Zoroastrian era Persian culture. The latter simply refuses to die. Just as an individual struggles with conflicting loyalties and identities until they are reconciled, so do entire nations and cultures. As long as Iran 's ancient identity is denied and denigrated, Iranian public life will be dishonest and contradictory. According to Islam, all history before Islam was an era of "darkness" and should be discarded. This is a frightening Orwellian belief, that the world witnessed first hand with the Taliban's destruction of the Bamiyan Buddha statues. If the Iran past is to regain its rightful place, it must be prepared to attack this identity-destroying aspect of Islam.
http://www.faithfreedom.org/oped/PaoloBassi51003.htm
I agree with some of these thoughts, but written by a foreigner, they lack depth.
I of course have the luxury of seeing two ancient faiths and civilizations and peoples butting heads with Islam and can appreciate the subtle differences and delicious ironies they both put on offer.
Cheers, Doc
P.S. Zoroastrianism is an ancient Aryan faith.
Abrahmic faiths were borne and grew among Semitic peoples.
There is a world of difference.
Of blood. And time.
Hence the delicious irony for Iranians. Especially Muslim Persians.
They hate Arabs. Look down on them with some serious racial venom as a crude and savage people. Strong and very deep ancient blood supremacist venom.
And yet they have been passed on a faith that is Arabic. By Arabs. Written in Arabic. Prayed to in Arabic. The holiest sites all Arabic.
And still buying into the existence of One God. Only now they call him Allah and not Ahura Mazda. Forgetting the teachings of their own Zarathustra, and revering those of Muhammad. Who was? An Arab.
Does that change anything really?
How do you hate and look down on a people so completely, so totally. For all of remembered civilizational memory. As lesser beings.
Yet now practice the faith those same lesser beings imposed on to you by the sword and conquest militarily?
By practicing some seriously imaginative revisionism over a millennium. Institutionalize it over centuries. Destroy systematically all trappings of past glory and umbrella lump it under "dark past" as something universally reviled. And claim to love the faith and its Prophet, both of which come from and are of that you cannot and could never consider your equals.
Its different for Indic converts of course.
Maybe another post some other time.
Last edited:
vsdoc
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Hatred of Arabs deeply rooted in Persians, says Iranian intellectual
Sunday, 09 October 2011
Iranian intellectual Sadek Zibakalam says that most Iranians hate not only Arabs, but many other peoples as well. (File photo)
By Saud al-Zahed
Dubai
The relationship between Arabs and Persians has always been a source of controversy, not only owing to the contemporary power struggle in the region, but also because of a long history of rivalry that formed an integral part of the national psyche of both people. Iranian intellectual Sadek Zibakalam provides deep insight into the different levels of this enduring animosity.
“I think the majority of Iranians of all types hate Arabs, and I believe they hate us, too,” Sadek Zibakalam, who is also a professor at the University of Tehran, said in an interview with the Iranian weekly Sobh Azade.
Zibakalam said there is a link between racism and a lack of education, and pointed out that this is the case in Europe, where people who express hatred against Jews or Muslims or foreigners are mostly uneducated. However, the situation tends to be different in Iran.
“The phenomenon of hating Arabs is very common among intellectuals in Iran,” he said.
He added that religious people also frequently express their resentment of Arabs, which usually comes in the form of curses directed at Sunnis.
“As a matter of fact, Iranians’ constant attacks on Sunnis stem from their hatred of Arabs.”
This hatred, Zibakalam argued, is not the product of the current hegemony conflict in the region, as many people might suspect, but has its roots in history.
“Persians will never forget their defeat at the hands of Arabs in the Battle of Qadisiya 1,400 years ago. It is as if a fire keeps seething under the ashes and is waiting for the right moment to explode,” he said.
Iran’s attempts to gain supremacy in the region are not triggered by political ambition as much as by a racist drive that pushes Iranians to prove they are superior, the professor said.
“Whenever Iran issues any fiery statement about our neighbors in the U.A.E, Qatar, or Kuwait, you can easily detect that they revolve around a belief that Persians are superior. Listen to our foreign minister, parliament speaker, or even mosque imams, and you will notice that derogatory tone they use and which focuses on the racial and not the political superiority of Persians.”
He cited the example of the U.A.E., which many Iranians, politicians and clergy derides in their statements.
“They would say that if Iranians just blow some air across the Persian Gulf, they would wipe the U.A.E off the map,” he said.
When asked whether the stance of the people is similar to that of the government as far as hatred of Arabs is concerned, Zibakalam replied in the affirmative.
“Yes, people are like the government, and may be even more racist and intolerant.”
For example, he said, when a couple of years ago the U.A.E said it was not going to drop its opposition to Iran’s occupation of three disputed Islands in the Gulf and referring to the “Persian Gulf,” large numbers of people rallied in front of the U.A.E embassy in Tehran with a cake that had 35 candles: they were making fun of the U.A.E’s 35-year history, compared to Iran’s 2,500.”
He added that Iranians also criticize their compatriots who travel to Arab countries. For example, they always ask why they would go and spend their money in Arab countries, while they never do the same with Turkey, where huge numbers of Iranians go.
“This even applies to religious trips to the Arab world, while if Mecca or Karbala were in Turkey or Malaysia, Iranians would not have a problem with people going there,” Zibakalam said.
He added that Persian racism against Arabs becomes very clear in language, and that the establishment of the Persian Language Institute was intended to carry out a plan to remove Arabic words from the Persian language.
“Arabic words that have been in the Persian language for more than 1,000 years would be removed even though they are mentioned in great literary works like The Shahnameh and the poetry of Rumi, all of which are parts of our history.”
Zibakalam also admitted that this “racism” for which Iranians are known is not practiced against Arabs only, but also against other non-Persian ethnicities inside Iran.
“If for example we take jokes as an indication of the way we view people, you will find how the Turkmens and the Lur are the most ridiculed in our jokes.”
That same goes for other groups, such as Kurds and the Baluchi, he added.
Zibakalam was born in 1948 to a Shiite family in Tehran and obtained his Ph.D. in political science from the University of Bradford in the U.K. He is currently a member of the Scientific Association at Tehran University.
Zibakalam was a critic of the Shah and a supporter of former Prime Minister Mohamed Mossadeq. He was sent to jail for two years during the Shah’s reign.
After the 1979 Islamic Revolution, Zebakalam held several government positions and played a major role in the Iranian Cultural Revolution, in which academics who did not toe the line of the new republic were dismissed. He, however, expressed his regret for taking part in the revolution and issued a direct apology.
One of the things known about Zebakalam is that he has never belonged to any party, and that he criticizes both conservatives and reformists. He is also said to be close to former Iranian President Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani.
(Translated from Arabic by Sonia Farid)
Sunday, 09 October 2011
Iranian intellectual Sadek Zibakalam says that most Iranians hate not only Arabs, but many other peoples as well. (File photo)
By Saud al-Zahed
Dubai
The relationship between Arabs and Persians has always been a source of controversy, not only owing to the contemporary power struggle in the region, but also because of a long history of rivalry that formed an integral part of the national psyche of both people. Iranian intellectual Sadek Zibakalam provides deep insight into the different levels of this enduring animosity.
“I think the majority of Iranians of all types hate Arabs, and I believe they hate us, too,” Sadek Zibakalam, who is also a professor at the University of Tehran, said in an interview with the Iranian weekly Sobh Azade.
Zibakalam said there is a link between racism and a lack of education, and pointed out that this is the case in Europe, where people who express hatred against Jews or Muslims or foreigners are mostly uneducated. However, the situation tends to be different in Iran.
“The phenomenon of hating Arabs is very common among intellectuals in Iran,” he said.
He added that religious people also frequently express their resentment of Arabs, which usually comes in the form of curses directed at Sunnis.
“As a matter of fact, Iranians’ constant attacks on Sunnis stem from their hatred of Arabs.”
This hatred, Zibakalam argued, is not the product of the current hegemony conflict in the region, as many people might suspect, but has its roots in history.
“Persians will never forget their defeat at the hands of Arabs in the Battle of Qadisiya 1,400 years ago. It is as if a fire keeps seething under the ashes and is waiting for the right moment to explode,” he said.
Iran’s attempts to gain supremacy in the region are not triggered by political ambition as much as by a racist drive that pushes Iranians to prove they are superior, the professor said.
“Whenever Iran issues any fiery statement about our neighbors in the U.A.E, Qatar, or Kuwait, you can easily detect that they revolve around a belief that Persians are superior. Listen to our foreign minister, parliament speaker, or even mosque imams, and you will notice that derogatory tone they use and which focuses on the racial and not the political superiority of Persians.”
He cited the example of the U.A.E., which many Iranians, politicians and clergy derides in their statements.
“They would say that if Iranians just blow some air across the Persian Gulf, they would wipe the U.A.E off the map,” he said.
When asked whether the stance of the people is similar to that of the government as far as hatred of Arabs is concerned, Zibakalam replied in the affirmative.
“Yes, people are like the government, and may be even more racist and intolerant.”
For example, he said, when a couple of years ago the U.A.E said it was not going to drop its opposition to Iran’s occupation of three disputed Islands in the Gulf and referring to the “Persian Gulf,” large numbers of people rallied in front of the U.A.E embassy in Tehran with a cake that had 35 candles: they were making fun of the U.A.E’s 35-year history, compared to Iran’s 2,500.”
He added that Iranians also criticize their compatriots who travel to Arab countries. For example, they always ask why they would go and spend their money in Arab countries, while they never do the same with Turkey, where huge numbers of Iranians go.
“This even applies to religious trips to the Arab world, while if Mecca or Karbala were in Turkey or Malaysia, Iranians would not have a problem with people going there,” Zibakalam said.
He added that Persian racism against Arabs becomes very clear in language, and that the establishment of the Persian Language Institute was intended to carry out a plan to remove Arabic words from the Persian language.
“Arabic words that have been in the Persian language for more than 1,000 years would be removed even though they are mentioned in great literary works like The Shahnameh and the poetry of Rumi, all of which are parts of our history.”
Zibakalam also admitted that this “racism” for which Iranians are known is not practiced against Arabs only, but also against other non-Persian ethnicities inside Iran.
“If for example we take jokes as an indication of the way we view people, you will find how the Turkmens and the Lur are the most ridiculed in our jokes.”
That same goes for other groups, such as Kurds and the Baluchi, he added.
Zibakalam was born in 1948 to a Shiite family in Tehran and obtained his Ph.D. in political science from the University of Bradford in the U.K. He is currently a member of the Scientific Association at Tehran University.
Zibakalam was a critic of the Shah and a supporter of former Prime Minister Mohamed Mossadeq. He was sent to jail for two years during the Shah’s reign.
After the 1979 Islamic Revolution, Zebakalam held several government positions and played a major role in the Iranian Cultural Revolution, in which academics who did not toe the line of the new republic were dismissed. He, however, expressed his regret for taking part in the revolution and issued a direct apology.
One of the things known about Zebakalam is that he has never belonged to any party, and that he criticizes both conservatives and reformists. He is also said to be close to former Iranian President Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani.
(Translated from Arabic by Sonia Farid)
Aramagedon
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Marriage of Imam Hussain (PBUH) and lady Shahrbanu (PBUH) mother of the fourth Imam, Imam Ali ibn Hussain (PBUH), and 8 Shias Imams after him...
(Couldn't find a good english source.)
کیا بی بی شهر بانو سے امام حسین (علیہ السلام) کى شادی کا واقعہ صحیح هے؟
اس سوال کو وضاحت سے بیان کر کے اس کا جوب دیا جاتا ھے
سوال:اسلامى فوج کى اسارت میں قرار پائى شهر بانو نامى کسى خاتون سے امام حسین (ع) کى ازدواج (ع) کے بارے میں کئى قول پائے جاتے هیں، کیونکه بعض روایتوں میں اس خاتوں کے خلیفه دوم عمر کى خلافت میں اسیر هونا درج کیا گیا هے اور بعض روایتوں میں عثمان کى خلافت کے دوران اسیر هونا درج کیا گیا هے – اس کے علاوه اس کے اور اس کے باپ کے بارے میں متعدد نام ذکر کئے گئے هیں- ان نکات کے پیش نظر امام حسین (ع) کى بیوى اور امام سجاد کى والده کا (شهربانو نام هونا اور) ایرانى هونا مشکل هے-
جواب:
یزدگرد سوم کى بیٹى (شهر بنو) سے امام حیسن (ع) کى شادى کے بارے میں مورخین کے درمیان کئى قول پائے جاتے هیں:
شیخ صدوق (رح) امام زین العابدین کى والده کے بارے میں اس حدیث کو نقل کرتے هیں: که سهل بن قاسم نوشجانى کهتے هیں: امام رضا (ع) نے خراسان میں مجه سے فرمایا : همارے اور آپ کے درمیان رشته دارى هے- میں نے کها که : یه رشته دارى کیا هے؟ امام (ع) نے فرمایا! جب عبدالله بن عامر بن کریزنے خراسان کو فتح کیا، تو اسے ایران کے بادشاه کى دوبیٹیاں ملیں، انهیں عثمان بن عفان کے پاس بهیجا – عثمان بن عفان نے ان دو میں سے ایک، امام حسن (ع) اور دوسرى امام حسین (ع) کو بخش دى- اور یه دونوں بٹیاں وضع حمل کے بعد فوت هوگیئں- امام حسین (ع) کى بیوى سے امام سجاد (ع) پیدا هوئے- امام حسین (ع) کى بیوى کى وفات کے بعد، امام حسین (ع) کى ایک کنیز نے امام سجاد (ع) کى سرپرستى سنبهالى - [1] اس روایت کے مطابق یزد گرد کى بیٹى کو عثمان کے زمانه میں مدینه لایا گیا هے، نه عمر بن خطاب کے زمانه میں-
اس روایت کے بارے میں شیخ عباس قمى یوں کهتے هیں: یه حدیث ان احادیث کے خلاف هے، جن میں یزدگرد کى بیٹى کو عمر بن خطاب کے زمانے میں مدینه لانے کى نسبت دى گئى هے اور وه حدیثیں مشهور تر اور قوى ترهیں- [2]
کلینى (رح) نے امام سجاد (ع) کى والده کى هویت کے بارے میں یه حدیث نقل کى هے که : "جب یزد گرد کى بیٹى کو عمر کے پاس لایا گیا، مدینه کى دوشیزایئں اس کے دیدار کے لئے آرهى تهیں، جب وه مسجد میں داخل هوئى، مسجد اس کے نور سے منور هوگئى- عمر نے اس پر نظر ڈالى، اس لڑکى نے اپنا چهره چهپایا اور کها: "اف بیروج بادا هرمز" (واى، هرمز کے ایام سیاه پر!) عمر نے کها: یه لڑکى مجهے برا بهلا کهتى هے اور اس کى طرف متوجه هوئے! امیرالمومنین (ع) نے عمر سے کها: تجهے اسے کسى قسم کى تکلیف پهنچانے کا حق نهیں هے، اسے اختیار دیدو که خود مسلمانوں میں سے کسى مرد کو اپنے لئے منتخب کرے اور اسے اس مرد کے غنیمت میں شمار کرنا – عمر نے اسے اختیار دیا- لڑکى آگے پڑهى اور اپنے هاته کو امام حسین (ع) کے سر پر رکه دیا- حضرت على (ع) نے اس سے فرمایا: تمهارا نام کیا هے؟ اس نے جواب میں کها: جهان شاه، حضرت نے فرمایا: بلکه شهر بانو-
اس کے بعد حسین (ع) سے فرمایا: اے ابا عبدالله! اس لڑکى سے روئے زمین کا بهترین شخص تیرے لئے متولد هوگا اور على بن حسین (ع) اس سے پیدا هوئے-
على بن حسین (ع) کو ابن الخیرتین (دو برگزید شخصیتوں کا بیٹا) کهتے تهے، کیونکه عرب کے برگزیده "اشم" تهے اور عجم کے "فارس"-[3]
Fellows of Ahlulbayt and Imam Mahdi (PBUH) are Iranians:
It can be understood from the hadiths that a considerable number of the special soldiers (313 generals) in the army of al-Mahdi (‘atfs) would be Iranians and they have been mentioned in various ways such as the people of Rey, the people of Khurasan, the treasures of Taleqan, the Qummis, the people of Persia, etc.
Imam al-Baqir (‘a) said: "The forces with black banners that will rise up from Khurasan will come to Kufah, and when Hadrat al-Mahdi (‘atfs) appears in Mecca, they will pay allegiance to him."[14][278]
Imam al-Baqir (‘a) also said: "The supporters of Hadrat al-Qa'im (‘a) will be three hundred and thirteen persons who will be from the children of Ajams (Iranians)."[15][279]
‘Abdullah ibn ‘Umar said that the Prophet (S) said: "God will give your (Muslims') power to the ajam; they are like lions that will never desert the battlefield. They will kill you (Arabs) and plunder your properties."[16][280]
Hudhayfah also narrated a hadith with the same content from the Prophet (S).[17][281] Of course, the implication of the hadith is debatable and problematic. Based on the hadiths, a time will come when the Iranians will unsheathe their swords against the Arabs to spread Islam and make them return to Islam, and they will slay those who oppose them. The condition of the Arabs at that time will be very deplorable with difficult and unpleasant days awaiting them.
Although ajam is said to be the non-Arabs, the Iranians are definitely included. On the basis of other hadiths, both in preparing the ground for operations to be conducted prior to the advent (zuhur) and at the time of the uprising of Hadrat al-Mahdi (‘atfs), the Iranians will have a pivotal role and they will constitute a large number of combatants.
In a sermon delivered by ‘Ali (‘a) regarding the supporters of al-Mahdi (‘atfs) and their nationalities, the names of some Iranian cities have been mentioned.
Asbagh ibn Nabatah said that the Commander of the Faithful (‘a) delivered a sermon in which he mentioned Hadrat al-Mahdi (‘atfs) and his supporters who will accompany him in the uprising, saying: "One is from Ahwaz; one from Shushtar; three are from Shiraz whose names are Hafs, Ya‘qub and ‘Ali; four are from Isfahan whose names are Musa, ‘Ali, ‘Abdullah, and Ghalfan; one from Burujerd named Qadim; one is from Nahavand named ‘Abdur-Razzaq; three are from Hamedan[18][282] whose names are Ja‘far, Ishaq and Musa; ten are from Qum whose names are that of the Ahl al-Bayt of the Messenger of Allah (and in another hadith eighteen have been mentioned); one from Shirvan'; and one is from Khurasan named Darid.
There are also five whose names are that of the Companions of the Cave; one from Amul; one from Gorgan; one from Damghan; one from Sarakhs; one from Saveh; twenty four from Taleqan (Tehran); two from Qazvin; one from Fars; one from Abhar; one from Ardebil; three from Maragheh; one from Khuy; one from Salmas; three from Abadan; and one from Kazerun."
Then, the Commander of the Faithful said: "The Noble Prophet (S) mentioned to me three hundred and thirteen persons of the supporters of al-Mahdi (‘atfs) equal to the number of the supporters in (the Battle of) Badr, and he said: ‘God will bring them from both the east and the west to the precinct of the Ka‘bah' faster than the blink of an eye."[19][283]
As you can observe, among the three hundred and thirteen persons constituting the special corps of Hadrat al-Mahdi (‘atfs)-who will accompany him at the beginning of the uprising-seventy two will come from the present cities of Iran. If we also take into account what has been narrated in Dala'il al-Imamah[20][284] of Tabari and the names of cities that were in Iran at that time, the number of Iranians will become more than this.
In this hadith the name of a city is sometimes mentioned twice, sometimes the names of some cities in a country, and at other times the name of the very country has been mentioned.
In case the hadith has been correctly recorded, it perhaps bespeaks of the divisions and the names used at that time, thus geographical divisions in the present age cannot serve as the criteria to interpret and understand this hadith; for, the names of cities change over time; sometimes, the name of one city is used for a country at the present time or vice versa.
The other point is that by collating the names of cities (mentioned in the hadith in question) with the present geographical map of the world, it can be concluded perhaps that the supporters of the Imam are scattered throughout the world and it is possible that the word "afranjah" mentioned in the hadith refers to the western hemisphere. If this collation and statement were correct, the hadith will become meaningful with the dictum, "قلبت خليت لو". It is because at no time will the earth be devoid of good men; otherwise, it will come to an end.
In other hadiths, some cities have been especially mentioned. Here, we will suffice to mention some hadiths concerning the cities of Qum, Khurasan and Taleqan:
A. Qum
Imam as-Sadiq (‘a) said: "The soil of Qum is holy... Aren't they the supporters of our Qa'im and callers toward our right?"[21][285]
‘Affan al-Basiri said that Imam as-Sadiq (‘a) said to him: "Do you know why Qum is named "Qum"?" I replied: "God, His Messenger and you know better." He said: "It is called Qum because its inhabitants will rally behind the Qa'im of Muhammad's Progeny (‘atfs) and rise up along with him (‘atfs). Along this line, they will show their perseverance and assist him (‘atfs)."[22][286]
B. Khurasan
The Commander of the Faithful (‘a) said that the Messenger of Allah (S) said: "...There are treasures in Khurasan but they are not gold and silver. Instead, they are men who will gather together on their belief in God and His Messenger."[23][287] Perhaps, it means that what they have in common is the correct belief in God and His Messenger, or it may mean that God will gather them one day in Mecca.
The Messenger of Allah (S) said: “A community (qawm) will emerge after you that will gather the world under their feet, and the world will be spread out for them, while the men and women of Persia will serve them in battles. The earth will be traversed under their steps in less than the blink of an eye in such a manner that anyone of them could cover the distance from east to west in an instant. They are not of this world and the world has also no benefit and portion for them.”[68][332]
C. Taleqan
The Commander of the Faithful (‘a) said: "Blessed is Taleqan! It is because God has treasures there which are neither gold nor silver. Instead, they are men of faith who have really recognized God and they will be the companions of the Mahdi (Guided One) of Muhammad's Progeny (‘atfs) at the end of time."[24][288]
Imam al-Baqir (‘a) said: “The Shi‘ah and supporters of Mahdi (‘atfs) will go toward him from different parts of the world; the earth will be gathered under their feet and by traversing the world they will reach the Imam (‘a) and pay allegiance to him.”[69][333]
Imam Reza (‘a) said: “By Allah! If our Qa’im stages the uprising, God will gather the Shi‘ah from all cities (and countries) to be around him.”[71][335]
Imam as-Sadiq (‘a) also said: “While the young Shi‘ah will be sleeping on rooftops, suddenly and without prior notice, they will be brought in multitudes in one night beside him (‘atfs). Then in the morning everybody will be gathered around him (‘atfs).”[72][336]
A very 'famous' aya in Quran in Surah Maidah exists that tens reports from Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) and Ahlulbayt (PBUT) has quoted that is about Iranians. Moreover the next aya is about Wilayat of Imam Ali (PBUH).
Believers, whosoever of you turns from his religion, allah will bring a nation (Persians) whom he loves and they love him, humble towards the believers and stern towards the unbelievers, striving for the path of allah and fearless of anyone's blame. such is the bounty of allah; he bestows it on whom he will. he is the embracer, the knower. [5,54]
your guide is only allah, his messenger, and the believers; those who establish the prayer, pay their obligatory charity, and bow down. [5,55]
The situation of soldiers:
The Commander of the Faithful (‘a) said: “The supporters of al-Mahdi are all young. There are no old and aged among them but a few who are like antimony for the eye and salt for the food. Of course, the least amount of a thing needed in food is salt.”[83][347]
Imam as-Sadiq (‘a) said: “What Prophet Lut (Lot) (‘a) meant in his statement addressed to his enemies when he said, ‘I wish I had a potent force against you or I can take refuge in a formidable column,’ was a force similar to the potent force of the Promised Mahdi (‘atfs) and his supporters each of whom has the strength equal to that of forty men. They have hearts firmer than steel and when they traverse mountains, the rocks tremble. They do not sheathe their swords unless when God wants and is pleased with it.”[84][348]
In this regard, Imam as-Sajjad (‘a) said: “When our Qa’im stages the uprising, God will keep away sluggishness and weakness from our Shi‘ah and make their hearts as firm and resolute as steel; He will grant each of them the strength of forty men and they will become rulers and leading figures on earth.”[85][349]
Imam as-Sadiq (‘a) said: “In the government of al-Mahdi (‘atfs) our Shi‘ah will be the rulers and leading figures on earth and each of them will have the strength of forty men.”[86][350]
Imam al-Baqir (‘a) said: “There is fear of the enemy in the hearts of our Shi‘ah (today), but when our government is established and Imam al-Mahdi (‘atfs) appears, each of our Shi‘ah will be more fearless than a lion and sharper than a spear. They will crush our enemies underfoot and slay them with their hands.”[87][351]
‘Abdul-Malik ibn A‘yun said: “As I got up to say goodbye to Imam al-Baqir (‘a), I leaned on my hands and said: ‘I wish I could perceive the advent of Hadrat al-Qa’im (‘atfs) in my youth (at the moment when I am physically sound).’
The Imam (‘a) said: ‘Are you not satisfied that your enemies are killing one another while you are safe in your own houses? If the Imam (‘a) appears, each of you will be given the strength of forty men and your hearts will be like steel so much so that if you struck the mountains with such hearts, the mountains will rend asunder and be pulled up. And you will become the leaders and trustees on earth’.”[88][352]
Quran: And verily we will let you live in the land after them. [14,14]
Imam as-Sadiq (‘a) said: “At the time of our affair (the government of Hadrat al-Mahdi), God will remove fear from the hearts of our Shi‘ah and place it on the hearts of our enemies. At that moment, each of our Shi‘ah would be sharper than a spear and braver than a lion. A single Shi‘ah will hit his enemy with a spear, strike him with a sword, and crush him underfoot.”[89][353]
The same Imam (‘a) also said: “The supporters of al-Mahdi (‘atfs) are men whose hearts are as firm and formidable as iron. Doubt and skepticism about the Essence of God are never entertained in those hearts. They are firmer than stone. If they were given the mission to shuffle the mountains and interchange them, they would quickly do it, and if the mission of destroying a city is given to them, they would be able to destroy it (with such speed and decisiveness that it would be) as if they were eagles sitting on horses.”[90][354]
Imam al-Baqir (‘a) said: “It is as if I can see the supporters of al-Mahdi (‘atfs) dominating heaven and earth and there is nothing in the world that would not be under their rule and sovereignty. Fierce animals and predatory birds also seek their pleasure. They will be so beloved that everywhere on earth will brag and boast to the other, saying: ‘Today, one of the supporters of al-Mahdi (‘atfs) dropped in and passed by here’.”[91][355]
Regarding the characteristics of Hadrat al-Qa’im (‘atfs), Imam as-Sadiq (‘a) said: “They have an intense fear of God and they aspire for martyrdom. Their aspiration is to be slain in the way of Allah. Their slogan is ‘O avengers of Husayn (‘a)!’ As they move, the fear and dread of them in the hearts of their enemies move with the distance of one month’s travel.”
The Soldiers of Imam al-Mahdi (‘atfs) | An Overview of The Mahdi’s (‘atfs) Government | Books on Islam and Muslims | Al-Islam.org
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Thanks for sharing this reading, it was indeed Abbasid period when Muslims lost their direction and lots of their books and indeed the period when most infiltration in governance of Muslims at higher levels happened.
For the quoted line I disagree with it............... Islam destroyed the false beliefs and threatens the culture that oppresses humans and is based on false beliefs (there is a reason A.R. Rehman converted or dalits even today threaten with conversion), the pre Islam Arabs also opposed messenger Muhammad (Peace be upon him) based on the same lines, because what he preached was strictly against their beliefs and in a way threatened their identity and culture (burying daughters alive being one of it), interestingly Caliph Umer under whose rule Persian empire finally got defeated, before converting to Islam was against Islam and Muslims in his speech and through his actions, he believed the same thing that Islam would destroy their Arab culture and will divide Arabs and they will loose their identity. But latter on world witnessed a Muslim Umer as a Caliph of Islam who ruled 3.5 million sqm of territory.
Let us stop with this discussion now till we find some appropriate thread to carry on with it. I don't want you or me to get banned
vsdoc
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Thanks for sharing this reading, it was indeed Abbasid period when Muslims lost their direction and lots of their books and indeed the period when most infiltration in governance of Muslims at higher levels happened.
For the quoted line I disagree with it............... Islam destroyed the false beliefs and threatens the culture that oppresses humans and is based on false beliefs (there is a reason A.R. Rehman converted or dalits even today threaten with conversion), the pre Islam Arabs also opposed messenger Muhammad (Peace be upon him) based on the same lines, because what he preached was strictly against their beliefs and in a way threatened their identity and culture (burying daughters alive being one of it), interestingly Caliph Umer under whose rule Persian empire finally got defeated, before converting to Islam was against Islam and Muslims in his speech and through his actions, he believed the same thing that Islam would destroy their Arab culture and will divide Arabs and they will loose their identity. But latter on world witnessed a Muslim Umer as a Caliph of Islam who ruled 3.5 million sqm of territory.
Let us stop with this discussion now till we find some appropriate thread to carry on with it. I don't want you or me to get banned
I agree. Its always an interesting discussion between strong individuals who are not insecure about their faith.
Unfortunately we do not have the luxury of sharing the space here with only those like us.
Peace.
Cheers, Doc
P.S. I invite you to read this .....
Islam: born to a Christian, adopted by a Persian - The Unz Review
Read it once, bookmarked it will read it again after sometime. Thanks for sharing.
jamahir
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doppelganger is a fellow tharki, though of the saffron tint persuasion and adding that to his general wit of commentary and somewhat bombast of tone would have led @Color_Less_Sky to say of you two having the same personality type.
doppelganger is also a medical student boarded i believe in a indian army medical college in bombay or at least in maharashtra.
he has been missing on forum since at least four months.
Plus he also used to call me by name sometimes, he was also alpha this alpha that, interested in women older than him, would be taking panga in all wrong places, he also used to believe fight is not finished yet, and he would also say if it comes to this I will be killing you and your countrymen alongside my countrymen. I never found him abusive..................
vsdoc
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Been reading some of his posts.
The boy seems to have his heart in the right place.
Though a bit hot headed and immature. And a little bit rude and intemperate of tongue as well.
Cheers, Doc
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