LY-80 deliveries to Pakistan complete

[blain2]

Their preference is to protect their armoured divs and moving formations but, apparently, not the cities.

Because it is a losing proposition. Forget Pakistan, even the US cannot put enough SAM systems to protect all of its cities.

Focus has to be on VPs that can sustain the country in times of war.

 

[randomradio]

Yes it can, it’s operational capacity is based on being highly mobile.
And so what if the design gives it away, practically like every other wheeled or tracked vehicle on the battlefield.

The idea behind highly mobile systems is to be able to either fire on the move or fire with short halts. But in this case, the LY-80 has to stop for a long time to fire, so it cannot be used to protect battle tanks. Or else you will have to expect the battle tanks to stop and wait for the LY-80 to do its work, but by then it will be too late.

Just because a SAM has wheels under it doesn't mean it is considered highly mobile. The LY-80 is used to protect static targets like bridges.

 

[Gryphon]

are we doing anything indigenous?

National R&D organizations successfully developed Harbah, an ASCM + LACM that exceeds limits MTCR imposed on imported weapons.

Several sources report an indigenous SAM project is ongoing, only a matter of time before its revealed.

 

[Armchair]

If one reads the book "Bear Trap" where Pakistani ISI effectively utilized SAMs against the Soviet Union, we have the cart before the horse. SAMs are not to be employed defensively but offensively to get the best success rates. Unfortunately, this lesson which took us the entire Afghan war to learn, has already been forgotten.

We have here two penny nay sayers, with zero technical background talking like they know what an LRSAM is or isn't. Reality is, it would not be beyond the Pak technical base to come up with a rudimentary LRSAM system. Something that can be a trip wire against enemy ingress, the added distraction for PAF to get the upper hand.

no defence system is deadly, until its proven in real time battle field. such type of weapon systems has very low success rate. right now everyone eyeing on syria defence system, what syria is using and what russia is testing against isreal attack.

The SAM employment we are speaking about is a completely different scenario from Syria-Israel. If I need to explain that to you, it becomes meaningless to have a conversation about it.

 

[Max]

National R&D organizations successfully developed Harbah, an ASCM + LACM that exceeds limits MTCR imposed on imported weapons.

Several sources report an indigenous SAM project is ongoing, only a matter of time before its revealed.

Thats good to hear, We should also delve in R&D related to engine, turbine, nuclear propulsion, Space, Laser etc and those who claim we dont have money, well we were not UK in 70's either when we funded nuclear program.

 

[HAIDER]

If one reads the book "Bear Trap" where Pakistani ISI effectively utilized SAMs against the Soviet Union, we have the cart before the horse. SAMs are not to be employed defensively but offensively to get the best success rates. Unfortunately, this lesson which took us the entire Afghan war to learn, has already been forgotten.

We have here two penny nay sayers, with zero technical background talking like they know what an LRSAM is or isn't. Reality is, it would not be beyond the Pak technical base to come up with a rudimentary LRSAM system. Something that can be a trip wire against enemy ingress, the added distraction for PAF to get the upper hand.



The SAM employment we are speaking about is a completely different scenario from Syria-Israel. If I need to explain that to you, it becomes meaningless to have a conversation about it.

Please explain

 

[Arsalan]

Great b

If one reads the book "Bear Trap" where Pakistani ISI effectively utilized SAMs against the Soviet Union, we have the cart before the horse. SAMs are not to be employed defensively but offensively to get the best success rates. Unfortunately, this lesson which took us the entire Afghan war to learn, has already been forgotten.

We have here two penny nay sayers, with zero technical background talking like they know what an LRSAM is or isn't. Reality is, it would not be beyond the Pak technical base to come up with a rudimentary LRSAM system. Something that can be a trip wire against enemy ingress, the added distraction for PAF to get the upper hand.



The SAM employment we are speaking about is a completely different scenario from Syria-Israel. If I need to explain that to you, it becomes meaningless to have a conversation about it.

Great book Bear Trap!

But for SAM, sir LRSAM that you seem to be talking about here are NOT offensive weapons. In Afghan war we used MANPADs that can be used as offensive weapon against enemy helicopters and even fighters but that is it. Longer range SAMs will always be used as defensive weapon systems.

 

[waz]

The idea behind highly mobile systems is to be able to either fire on the move or fire with short halts. But in this case, the LY-80 has to stop for a long time to fire, so it cannot be used to protect battle tanks. Or else you will have to expect the battle tanks to stop and wait for the LY-80 to do its work, but by then it will be too late.

Just because a SAM has wheels under it doesn't mean it is considered highly mobile. The LY-80 is used to protect static targets like bridges.

This will fire with short halts, have you even read up on this weapon system? Where does it have to stop for a long time, prove this!
The wheels are for mobility, what else do you think they are for?
Yes it can protect bridges and much else.

 

[war&peace]

Because it is a losing proposition. Forget Pakistan, even the US cannot put enough SAM systems to protect all of its cities.

Focus has to be on VPs that can sustain the country in times of war.

Sir, that's a defeatist approach and, I'm sure, not followed by US or any other major country. USA has invested billions in developing a multi-layered air defence system consisting of AEGIS, PACS etc on top of their potent offensive force. Same goes for Russia, China, EU etc and rest of the world is buying from these sources.
Even a single city saved offsets the cost of acquiring such a system.
we recently saw KSA used PAC3 to shoot down multiple missile attacks by Houthis.

 

[PDF]

Have been waiting for years... decades..


That shows the mentality... offload the responsibility on the other..It is the job of the airforce...so India is purchasing S400 will it be under its army or air force.
In todays warfare... cities are lot more important than the bloody tiny cantonment. Now it is time to think about protecting the nation..and not just the cantonment... since how many years we have been listening about HQ-9? And it there is not ban on its exports.

From a military pov, that is the priority. With limited funds, we will first project or offensive and defensive workstations.

These systems are not for cantonments. These systems are for entire complexes like ordnance factories, bridges on rivers, naval dockyards, oil refineries and other national assets vital during war. Stop spreading hate speech against army.

Please don't take everything as hate speech. Criticizing does not mean anti or hate.
And yes, these are placed to protect sensitive installations.

 

[Arsalan 345]

Long range Sams will be game changer.we must protect our air space.fighter jets can't save us Everytime.

 

[Armchair]

Great b

Great book Bear Trap!

But for SAM, sir LRSAM that you seem to be talking about here are NOT offensive weapons. In Afghan war we used MANPADs that can be used as offensive weapon against enemy helicopters and even fighters but that is it. Longer range SAMs will always be used as defensive weapon systems.

Hi Arsalan,

LRSAMs can be used in a number of ways. The typical way it is employed in Pakistan presently is to protect high value targets. However, it could be used nearer the border, as a first line of defence, a barbed wire fence, if you will. If you do this from mobile, constantly changing locations, it becomes an active defense system, if not outright an offensive system.

Long range Sams will be game changer.we must protect our air space.fighter jets can't save us Everytime.

Imagine if we could build a local system and build them in numbers. It would be a gamechanger for sure and would make IAF's job a nightmare. This is particularly true because of our extensive integrated radar and air defense network, that can choose any shooter for a given target.

 

[ghazi52]

 

[TOPGUN]

Great news just need something for long range oh wait or do we have some already

 

[TsAr]

Great news just need something for long range oh wait or do we have some already

Thori roshni dalain please