LUMS - becoming a leftist militant breeding ground ?

[Pandora]

I did answer your question:

Q:

A:


But you haven’t answered mine:


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I don’t feel the need to repeat ad nauseam what people over the years have listed that Zia did wrong. Plenty of things wrong at the time, plenty that are wrong in hindsight.

For starters, I would have had him usurp the Pakistani voter and remove an elected government. Or to imprison and then murder a Pakistani PM.

And in doing so, I wouldn’t have him violate and dissolve the same constitution he swore an oath to uphold as per ‘member of Armed Forces’ oath, thus making him a traitor general.

You mean PM who called people of his own country Suar kay bachay. Or the same PM who didnt give up power to mujeeb despite him having majority and told them bhar mein jao. Zia came after our country was split into two under the watch of a ZAB. Crimes of Zia pale in comparison to what ZAB did to our country. I find this entire debate that Democratic system is the best system for us a load of crap. It has been demonstrated again and again that whenever civilian government come into power in Pakistan they loot and plunder like there is no tomorrow. Pakistan has always been stable and more progressive under military rule and that is a fact.
It debatable that whether what he did to ZAB is right or wrong. What is not debatable are his contributions to protect his country. During his rule Pakistan successfully completed nuclear weapon and also successfully tackled Soviet threat which was literally roaming in our street in the form of LAL LAL Brigade. Curse him a million times but matter of fact is it was him who saved us from soviets not some bhuto or sharief.

 

[krash]

Have it your way man. I just shared my opinion

And I respect your right to have and express it, while reserving my right to argue against it.

and it is not set in stone.

Can't ask for more.

 

[FuturePAF]

You’ll disagree with me on this, but I know for a fact that the current system will not even allow open dissent or criticism of it, let alone reform.

I know this is not possible, but if I were to ask you to go to a journalist and ask them what would happen if they criticised the establishment too directly in their publications. They would recount either personal examples of censorship, or they might even give you examples of people they know who were ‘picked up’ and warned not to openly criticise the army or the government on certain matters.

One wonders what sort of meeker reform and non seditious reform might take place in a system that is so averse to dissenting opinion or pointing out facts.

A wise government or deep state would be open to more dissent then they are comfortable with. It all depends on what the aims of the deep state and the elite are.

Even in Jolly’ ole England they have gag rules against journalists and in the Land of the free and home of the brave; journalists criticizing the government have to be careful. They can be sued for defamation and their sources can subpoenaed by the courts.

No country is truly free for journalists, which is why even to this day journalists have to stay vigilant Against censorship in the US.

Pressfreedomtracker.us

 

[krash]

A wise government or deep state would be open to more dissent then they are comfortable with. It all depends on what the aims of the deep state and the elite are.

Even in Jolly’ ole England they have gag rules against journalists and in the Land of the free and home of the brave; journalists criticizing the government have to be careful. They can be sued for defamation and their sources can subpoenaed by the courts.

No country is truly free for journalists, which is why even to this day journalists have to stay vigilant Against censorship in the US.

Pressfreedomtracker.us

IMO, some control over the press is necessary. With the press there is a considerable amount of vested interest (money) in the mix, unlike with the academia. Also, the student/academic circles still, somewhat, exist within the regular populous but the press is a definite outside influencer. Couple these reasons and we understand what was going on at the first half of the 2010s. GEO just went all out.

 

[Dalit]

IMO, some control over the press is necessary. With the press there is a considerable amount of vested interest (money) in the mix, unlike with the academia. Also, the student/academic circles still, somewhat, exist within the regular populous but the press is a definite outside influencer. Couple these reasons and we understand what was going on at the first half of the 2010s. GEO just went all out.

Don't think that the media are angels free of sin and error. They too are humans. Whilst journalism is supposed to be a sacred profession which should inform truth and facts to people, unfortunately this is mostly not the case anywhere in the world. I stand for freedom for press. 100%. I don't endorse freedom for spreading lies and deceit.

 

[Areesh]

LUMS is mostly targeted by the conservatives because it's probably one of the few educational institutes in the country alongwith IBA, which does not limit critical thinking. If you go to LUMS, you'll find students with all the religious and political backgrounds being open about their views.

People who target LUMS are the same ones who are supporters of curbs on freedom in our country.

First of all you should apologize for putting IBA in the same sentence with LUMS

Secondly problem isn't with "critical thinking". Problem is doing propaganda against state, helping parroting propaganda of ethno fascist and racist groups like PTM and white washing crimes of terrorists fighting against the state like BLA

You can use a fancy term like "critical thinking" for these acts but all of theses acts don't do any better to society or poor of this country

If you think by supporting PTM you are doing service even to pashtuns let alone whole country then you are wrong

 

[SD 10]

What's wrong with being a "a leftist militant"

EVERYTHING.

Being a leftie and a student go together, they need something other than studies to pump the adrenalin. It's good to entertain alternative thought though it mustn't be violent.

no SIR, they need to concentrate on their studies only. Thats their duty to their Nation, their Family and to themselves.

Having studied in such institutes myself, I have seen the hate they have for the army and for anyone who opposes them. They are no different than terrorists, only that they don't have guns YET!

 

[FuturePAF]

And I respect your right to have and express it, while reserving my right to argue against it.



Can't ask for more.

IMO, some control over the press is necessary. With the press there is a considerable amount of vested interest (money) in the mix, unlike with the academia. Also, the student/academic circles still, somewhat, exist within the regular populous but the press is a definite outside influencer. Couple these reasons and we understand what was going on at the first half of the 2010s. GEO just went all out.

This is why the government should allow the press to make their arguments, but the government should be prepared to give their counter arguments. Where the press make false or defamatory statements, that journalist or media outlet should be taken to court. The press and the government should work within the law if they want the people to take the law seriously.

All the drama about Trump’s impeachment and all the legal maneuvering being done around it, is to show the public that their elected officials represent them. It builds trust in the system. The people may not be able to change the wealth disparity but at least on who gets to run them on day to day issues, the people get to pick from among the candidates from the 2 political parties.

It’s freedom of press and democracy within limits in the US. But they do have rule of law, so it keeps the nation stable and the people placated.

 

[khansaheeb]

EVERYTHING.


no SIR, they need to concentrate on their studies only. Thats their duty to their Nation, their Family and to themselves.

Having studied in such institutes myself, I have seen the hate they have for the army and for anyone who opposes them. They are no different than terrorists, only that they don't have guns YET!

You are not a Pakistani as you have such hatred for kids who are supposed to be "your own".

 

[krash]

This is why the government should allow the press to make their arguments, but the government should be prepared to give their counter arguments. Where the press make false or defamatory statements, that journalist or media outlet should be taken to court. The press and the government should work within the law if they want the people to take the law seriously.

All the drama about Trump’s impeachment and all the legal maneuvering being done around it, is to show the public that their elected officials represent them. It builds trust in the system. The people may not be able to change the wealth disparity but at least on who gets to run them on day to day issues, the people get to pick from among the candidates from the 2 political parties.

It’s freedom of press and democracy within limits in the US. But they do have rule of law, so it keeps the nation stable and the people placated.

Don't think that the media are angels free of sin and error. They too are humans. Whilst journalism is supposed to be a sacred profession which should inform truth and facts to people, unfortunately this is mostly not the case anywhere in the world. I stand for freedom for press. 100%. I don't endorse freedom for spreading lies and deceit.

No disagreement there. The freedom of press is a cornerstone of freedom of speech in any society. But since the media can't ever be expected to be completely free, checks and balances need to be established. A sort of balancing act needs to be played. These checks and balances, ideally, need to be enforced by a non-governmental body. The judicial system would be a good candidate but then the Pakistani judicial system is a sham itself. The agenda driven mass misinformation that we saw by the Pakistani media against the interests of the State a few years ago is what concerns me. The sudden proliferation of journalism in Pakistan without establishing any journalistic ethos, at least on the surface, also played its role. These guys were crashing funerals and broadcasting dead bodies of children live on TV.

 

[khansaheeb]

The problem becomes more complicated because this woke BS has become fashionable. It's how a lower middle class kid on scholarship from interior Sindh or rural Punjab can fit in better --- because, hey, he holds "progressive" values and is a champion of human rights; even worse, this is the crap that Western institutions live and die for: spew this nonsense and you'll get an invite, an award, an admissions offer, etc. Defend center-right policies and... you're a backward idiot on the ISI payroll.



Like all forms of extremism, it diminishes all other opinions as inferior and aggressively seeks to establish its own version of what's best as the only acceptable solution. This is why right wing extremists/militants are just as bad.



As long as he's not from the Army...



I won't get into Zia because, while he did a lot of good stuff at the geostrategic level, he also accelerated the downfall and division of our society that ZAB had started --- but you're absolutely right, leftist extremism has led to violence in the past and, if not controlled now, will lead to terrorism in the future.



There are many people here who've been students but have shunned that woke BS. The strangest thing is that it only takes a mildly intelligent person to intellectually dismantle most of their beliefs as hypocritical or false --- but our agencies usually don't operate with that kind of sophistication, unfortunately.

Maybe because our agencies respect freedom of expression and freedom of speech unlike the corrupt whose privilege is threatened? -"The strangest thing is that it only takes a mildly intelligent person to intellectually dismantle most of their beliefs as hypocritical or false --- but our agencies usually don't operate with that kind of sophistication, unfortunately."

I quote Fred Hoyle who said: " if you don't go against the crowd you are not going to have success"

 

[Irfan Baloch]

falling standards , hi fees , lack of any innovation . LUMS is a sorry state of affairs .

and now, their academia and professors are openly supporting PTM revolt and threatening state

https://twitter.com/nidkirm

^^
this is a lums professor , sitting comfortably in lahore DHA yet is tweeting ( to her 40k followers) about PTM narrative

im compiling a list of more lums professors and students engaged in such militancy and will update this board

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my message to all such liberals who are now rooting for PTM = pak army defeated TTP and crushed the snake's head . dont make this mistake

they are NOT leftists
they are elitist breed. and cant get any more capitalists
they like their top brands and status .
its bored kids who would rant on social media in their plush surroundings on how bad things are in Pakistan,
there is no agenda, they are born with a privilege and an entitlement to comment AT our system.

no worries. let them talk they will get bored.

 

[FuturePAF]

they are NOT leftists
they are elitist breed. and cant get any more capitalists
they like their top brands and status .
its bored kids who would rant on social media in their plush surroundings on how bad things are in Pakistan,
there is no agenda, they are born with a privilege and an entitlement to comment AT our system.

no worries. let them talk they will get bored.

They are indeed elitists. It’s very easy to say how bad the situation is, but the government should be more organized (similar to how ISPR challenged Indian propaganda in Feb.2019) in making their counter arguments. They need to make it clear why the tough decisions are being made, from the point of view of their responsibility to correct the institutional corruption, and why there are limits.

As in democracy and 5th generation warfare, the government and the military need to be prepared for a 24/7/365 PR war.

 

[RescueRanger]

they are NOT leftists
they are elitist breed. and cant get any more capitalists
they like their top brands and status .
its bored kids who would rant on social media in their plush surroundings on how bad things are in Pakistan,
there is no agenda, they are born with a privilege and an entitlement to comment AT our system.

no worries. let them talk they will get bored.

The fact that one of the community organisations run by LUMS alumni is funded by the Lakshmi Mital foundation says it all in my book! Call me narrow minded!

 

[Joe Shearer]

All you have to do is to look around and see who it is in nearby places - Jawaharlal Nehru University, Jamia Millia Islamia, Aligarh Muslim University, Lucknow University, Jadavpur University, and also Bombay University, Osmania University, EFL University, Maulana Azad National Urdu University and NALSAR University - that calls these leftist militant breeding grounds, and who supports the students there.

It is a telling point that the majority of members, the critical ones, are in the same camp as the Sangh Parivar, the hoodlums of the Akhil Bharatiya Vidyarthi Parishad, the BJP and their collusive agencies, the Delhi and UP Police, in their views about leftist militant universities and the students of these. Congratulations.