LUMS - becoming a leftist militant breeding ground ?

[Jungibaaz]

Nowadays pakistanis treat Zia like a boogieman but reality is that he was only Mard-e-Mujahid jisne in LAL LAL waloon ki LAL ki thi. In reality rise of these leftist Militants bred the necessity to bring Mullah brigade into Pakistani Politics.

He was a traitor general. And he damaged the country like no other has managed since.

Of course and these chestthumping liberal elites who travel around the world to cuss Pakistan are peaceful doves. Give me a break.

LOL at reactionary. I don't undermine the well being of Pakistan by calling PTM a peaceful movement. I know that these libtards are allies of PTM. Are you by any chance also supportive of PTM? Don't avoid the question.

In so far as their calls to end extrajudicial kidnappings, I support them.

And now since we’re trading questions, I could be just as combative and ask you an uncomfortably framed question, but I’ll leave that aside in case it triggers the reactionary in you.

How do students looking to improve university administration and accommodation, unions demanding legality, people demanding an end to extrajudicial kidnappings and detention. How do they undermine the state of Pakistan? As you have said.

 

[Dalit]

He was a traitor general. And he damaged the country like no other has managed since.


In so far as their calls to end extrajudicial kidnappings, I support them.

And now since we’re trading questions, I could be just as combative and ask you an uncomfortably framed question, but I’ll leave that aside in case it triggers the reactionary in you.

How do students looking to improve university administration and accommodation, unions demanding legality, people demanding an end to extrajudicial kidnappings and detention. How do they undermine the state of Pakistan? As you have said.

You still haven't answered the question. When students from LUMS support PTM how is this not undermining the state?

 

[Pandora]

He was a traitor general. And he damaged the country like no other has managed since.

I wonder what you would have done different in his place considering Pakistan even at that time was sandwiched between Russians and Americans. It is easier to act all high and mighty when you actually never had to make and face consequences of those decision. Our country was damaged since its inceptions and no single general or politician is responsible for it. As they say in Urdu

Iss behti ganga mein sab nay haath saaf kiyay hein

If he hadn't done what he did then instead of Mullahs our country would be plagued by LAL LAL Brigade. Our such fast pace of progress in era pre zia was mainly bcz Pakistanis were kissing arse of Americans ever since Pakistan was founded.

 

[Old School]

Technically, I am not against the real Marxists as they claim to be against imperialism. However, Pakistani Marxists have always worked for the foreign powers to undermine Pakistani interests. During the cold war, they used to be Indo-Soviet stooges. They actively worked against the Army during 1971 war with Indian help. During Afghan war, they worked as local spies for the Soviets.
These days these lefties are working for foreign NGOs and Indians while promoting atheism in order to undermine the Islamic values in our society.

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

How do students looking to improve university administration and accommodation, unions demanding legality, people demanding an end to extrajudicial kidnappings and detention. How do they undermine the state of Pakistan? As you have said.

They would go forward then and protest against Blasphemy laws, Anti Homosexuality laws, Anti Modest Laws what would u do then? Dont forget liberal students all over the world had great role in that

 

[El Sidd]

Dha seems to be amazingly tolerant to their activities

Safe houses are always there in big numbers.

LUMS has produced wave after wave of Indian Congress inspired fascists.

 

[Jungibaaz]

You still haven't answered the question. When students from LUMS support PTM how is this not undermining the state?

I did answer your question:

Q:

Are you by any chance also supportive of PTM? Don't avoid the question.

A:

In so far as their calls to end extrajudicial kidnappings, I support them.

But you haven’t answered mine:

... Students looking to improve university administration and accommodation, unions demanding legality, people demanding an end to extrajudicial kidnappings and detention. How do they undermine the state of Pakistan?

———————————————————

I wonder what you would have done different in his place considering Pakistan even at that time was sandwiched between Russians and Americans. It is easier to act all high and mighty when you actually never had to make and face consequences of those decision.

I don’t feel the need to repeat ad nauseam what people over the years have listed that Zia did wrong. Plenty of things wrong at the time, plenty that are wrong in hindsight.

For starters, I would have had him usurp the Pakistani voter and remove an elected government. Or to imprison and then murder a Pakistani PM.

And in doing so, I wouldn’t have him violate and dissolve the same constitution he swore an oath to uphold as per ‘member of Armed Forces’ oath, thus making him a traitor general.

 

[krash]

I don’t know where this absurd idea came from in Pakistan that universities aren’t politicised elsewhere in the world, that student unions are apolitical, and that students should not protest or be seditious. Come see what happens on UK university campuses and globally, they protest and organise freely, student unions are elected and represent student’s interests and their politics. Students in the UK even have national political groups and student unions.

It stems from the defunct educational institutes and the lack of any academic culture in the country. It is also not just about the politicised nature of the student bodies, IMHO. The otherisation of these students is a textbook defense mechanism for many here. Thee deliberate efforts to color the entire university in one when it actually teaches very many disciplines in social sciences, let alone others, is a clear example of this. Our corruption, subjugation, extremism, debauchery, is all well and fine, but these students and their words......oh they need to go.

The indoctrinated glorified springbreakers this institute churns out is a testimony to the murder of meritocracy at the hands of selected families.

If you could provide any tangible evidence to your claim?

That's just nepotism which helps little kids with big daddies walk straight into a senior position at these so called private sector.

Common misconception, especially amongst people who've never visited the place. The student body there is not all, or even mostly made of "little kids with big daddies". Far from it.

drugs, drinking and dance parties are not working I guess.

Have you been to any of these "dance parties"? Because last I remember one wasn't allowed to even stand up during a concert there. I take it you've spent a lot of time there.

Drugs and alcohol are a staple of every university in Pakistan. Childish statement, tbh.

 

[El Sidd]

If you could provide any tangible evidence to your claim?

Most people who frequent this institution have indoctrinated hate towards the two nation theory

Common misconception, especially amongst people who've never visited the place. The student body there is not all, or even mostly made of "little kids with big daddies". Far from it.

Do you know how Tea Party in USA works?

 

[R Wing]

You need to have a counter movement. Just like India and Afghanistan picked Manzoor Pashteen as their representative the people of Pakistan and the state needs to have its own anti-PTM face. Hold mass rallies throughout the country. Bigger rallies than PTM and challange them on every single point. Provide full media coverage. They cannot win against 200+ million Pakistanis who oppose their Pashtun nationalistic tendencies. Preferably get a fierce patriot from the tribal areas and present him or her as the anti-PTM messiah. In short, build an anti-PTM narrative.

Since the state and the Pak armed forces are united in the best interest of Pakistan we need to capitalise this moment. This idea under previous regimes was a pipedream since they were hand and glove with India. The state and the Pak armed forces need to work in sync, but more efficiently and certainly with more urgency. Something that is lacking at the moment.

Exactly. The problem, as I see it, is that while there is tactical and even operational genius available, there is very little in the way of intellectual leadership at the strategic level. This means that, despite there being an entire Wing at the ISI dedicated to countering such movements (with others supporting in their own domains + the IB + other govt bodies), the requisite brainpower needed to do the OBVIOUS (which you have suggested) seems to be lacking.

 

[krash]

Most people who frequent this institution have indoctrinated hate towards the two nation theory

Not really. I don't know if it counts, but I can tell you from my years spent there that that is nowhere near the truth. What a lot of people don't want to appreciate, for one reason or the other, is that LUMS is one of the very few institutes left in Pakistan where there is no restriction on thought, opinion or their expression, as should be the case in every academic environment (Every society, imo). If you don't hear opinions from every band of the political/social discourse spectrum you're not really running a very good university. When you hear those for A you also get those for B, opposing them. Question is what do you want to hear? They quote two proffs from the uni and it suddenly starts producing "leftist militants". A week from now these students would go back to being kids of the elite who only know how to dance, party, drink and fornicate.

LUMS is as diverse as Pakistan. Full of stupid and brilliant people.

Do you know how Tea Party in USA works?

Not a big fan of vague back and forths. Direct arguments save a lot of time.

 

[El Sidd]

Not really. I don't know if it counts, but I can tell you from my years spent there that that is nowhere near the truth. What a lot of people don't want to appreciate, for one reason or the other, is that LUMS is one of the very few institutes left in Pakistan where there is no restriction on thought, opinion or their expression, as should be the case in every academic environment (Every society, imo). If you don't hear opinions from every band of the political/social discourse spectrum you're not really running a very good university. When you hear those for A you also get those for B, opposing them. Question is what do you want to hear? They quote two proffs from the uni and it suddenly starts producing "leftist militants". A week from now these students would go back to being kids of the elite who only know how to dance, party, drink and fornicate.

LUMS is as diverse as Pakistan. Full of stupid and brilliant people.

Left or right are not terms used in Pakistan.

Freedom of Thought and Expression does not mean insinuation of rebellion and supremacist indoctrination. The protest here are not two quotes but the casualness of giving militancy political rhetoric.

If this was not an English speaking wine drinking orgy loving Madressah, it would have been bombed long ago.

Not a big fan of vague back and forths. Direct arguments save a lot of time.

Direct argument is classicism and eliticism under the disguise of high class of education.

 

[Dalit]

I did answer your question:

Q:

A:


But you haven’t answered mine:


———————————————————


I don’t feel the need to repeat ad nauseam what people over the years have listed that Zia did wrong. Plenty of things wrong at the time, plenty that are wrong in hindsight.

For starters, I would have had him usurp the Pakistani voter and remove an elected government. Or to imprison and then murder a Pakistani PM.

And in doing so, I wouldn’t have him violate and dissolve the same constitution he swore an oath to uphold as per ‘member of Armed Forces’ oath, thus making him a traitor general.

Firstly, there is no way to determine whether extrajudicial killings took place. These are mere allegations. Besides, this smear campaign is only waged against the Pak army at the behest of Indian and Afghan stooges. There is no denying that some innocent people got killed during the long war in the tribal areas. This cannot be termed as systematic killing, but rather unfortunate and unintended casualties. The victims should be fully compensated by the Pakistani state.

Secondly, this is exactly the reason why Imran Khan opposed the war in the FATA region which would inevitably lead to innocent deaths. The irony is that these academics and students belonging to LUMS also opposed Imran Khan and used to call him Taliban Khan. These so-called intellectuals don't have a fixed position on anything. They are just opportunists who don't miss an opportunity to bash Pakistan and the armed forces. The duplicity is clear in this example.

Talking about extrajudicial killings, do you know how many Pashtun were brutally massacred in Afghanistan at the hands of the US/NATO forces and Afghans i.e. Northern Alliance? This has been extremely well documented by various human rights organizations. Why won't LUMS students hold protests against US, NATO and Afghan extrajudicial killings? Why doesn't PTM question these extrajudicial killings which have been confirmed by human rights organizations? Let me answer this question for you. It is because these mouthpieces are on their payroll. Their only job is to highlight lies against the Pak armed forces.

Now let me come back to your other remark regarding student demands. Students looking to improve university administration and accommodation, unions demanding legality are legitimate demands and no one is opposing these. The concerned authorities should pay heed.

People demanding an end to so-called extrajudicial kidnappings and detention are mostly PTM members or journos on foreign payroll. Like I said, these groups are only interested in agitation against the state. They hold mass rallies to disrupt public life and undermine safety. They have already killed scores of innocent people. Their only goal is to disrupt society and sow ethnic division. The state won't let this happen. Hence the detention of Manzoor Pashteen.

If PTM was truly sincere in demanding justice they would approach Imran Khan instead of rioting on streets. There is no bigger pacifist in Pakistan today than Imran Khan. After all, Imran Khan was himself opposed to the armed forces going into the tribal areas to fight US war on terror.

The reason why the US is hush hush or even tacitly approving PTM is because Pakistan used to make the same allegations against US, NATO and Afghan forces for ignoring the plight of majority Pashtun community in Afghanistan. The US deep state believes that this is some sort of payback, but it in reality it is not. It is merely a smear campaign that has already failed. PTM is a dead horse.

Pakistan is dismantling PTM in front of the whole world. Let see if anyone can stop us from taking apart this proxy group.

 

[krash]

Left or right are not terms used in Pakistan.

Freedom of Thought and Expression does not mean insinuation of rebellion and supremacist indoctrination.

Insinuation of rebellion, in fact political rebellion itself is what made this country. And brought about every major change everywhere in the world in all of our history, for better or for worse. That said, "insinuation", or rather discourse, alone is well within the rights of every citizen in any healthy society. Argue against it and defeat it, pretty easy when you are right and only need to use words. Why does it scare you so?

Supremacist indoctrination? Is this that "kids of big daddies" again? Don't think I'll be getting an argument for this, am I?

The protest here are not two quotes but the casualness of giving militancy political rhetoric.

Giving political rhetoric/discourse to militancy is exactly how you defeat it. This is what you want to do. This is how you defeated terrorism.

If this was not an English speaking wine drinking orgy loving Madressah, it would have been bombed long ago.

Sure.

Direct argument is classicism and eliticism under the disguise of high class of education.

Yeah. Vague statements pretending to be arguments, though, are just rhetoric and a waste of my time, tbh.

 

[El Sidd]

Insinuation of rebellion, in fact political rebellion itself is what made this country. And brought about every major change everywhere in the world in all of our history, for better or for worse. That said, "insinuation", or rather discourse, alone is well within the rights of every citizen in any healthy society. Argue against it and defeat it, pretty easy when you are right and only need to use words. Why does it scare you so?

Supremacist indoctrination? Is this that "kids of big daddies" again? Don't think I'll be getting an argument for this, am I?




Giving political rhetoric/discourse to militancy is exactly how you defeat it. This is what you want to do. This is how you defeated terrorism.



Sure.



Yeah. Vague statements pretending to be arguments, though, are just rhetoric and a waste of my time, tbh.

Have it your way man. I just shared my opinion and it is not set in stone.