Lt.Gen Qamar Javed Bajwa the new COAS - Lt.Gen Zubair Hayat new CJCSC.

[Zarvan]

@Divergent1

Sir you said nothing but tagged someone May I ask why ?

 

[MastanKhan]

Sorry in Islam a non Muslim can't lead Muslim Army. Also he would have been a Qadyani it would have seriously bad impact on Army. Pakistan Army motto is Iman Taqwa and Jihad fi Sabilillah. Most soldiers are Muslims and they fight not for Pakistan but to defend a Muslim land. Yes we have non Muslim soldiers but for most soldiers motivation is Islam. So yes it matters no matter How many liberals try to say it should in Islam it does.

Hi,

There are many a christian officers in pak military and all the muslim soldiers follow their orders without prejudice---because the goal is the same---defense of pakistan.

I very much doubt that would have been an issue---unless sh-it was stirred up.

 

[Zarvan]

@Divergent1

Sir you said nothing but tagged someone May I ask why ?

Hi,

There are many a christian officers in pak military and all the muslim soldiers follow their orders without prejudice---because the goal is the same---defense of pakistan.

I very much doubt that would have been an issue---unless sh-it was stirred up.

Sir Muslims issue with Qadyanis is totally different than with christian and Jews. It's way too different than other issues.

 

[Indus Falcon]

@DESERT FIGHTER

I would appreciate your opinion on this matter as your father is a serving member of the armed forces.

Father and BROTHER. He himself is a reserve.

 

[Salik]

He is simply warning us all that there might be hostile actions continued from the Pakistani side, and that this might not be affected by his former colleague in the UN forces being a thoroughly professional and very competent soldier; that this thorough professionalism and competence might not affect state policy.

Hostility isn't always done with swords but words (check my artful comeback lol) as well. When you say you don't accept cpec passing through disputed territory of Gilgit Baltistan. Can you give a goodwill statement in favour of CPEC for the Sake of peace.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Hostility isn't always done with swords but words (check my artful comeback lol) as well. When you say you don't accept cpec passing through disputed territory of Gilgit Baltistan. Can you give a goodwill statement in favour of CPEC for the Sake of peace.

No, because it isn't needed. It is made for the sake of the record. There is never any question of the Indian Army interfering with the setting up of the CPEC, or of harming anyone connected to it (or any civilian, for that matter). So there will be nothing that will happen to the CPEC, except that India will lose out.

An aside:

Civilians have got hurt in recent cross-border firing, but that is because the guns used are themselves not accurate beyond a certain point. Pakistanis, too, surely do not intend to harm civilians; they have harmed them.

Conclusion:

I can see that I have a slippery customer here, and must watch my p's and q's very carefully.

 

[F86 Saber]

Spoke to my cousin who has known Gen. Bajwa for 20 years, his exact words were that NS took the safest bet based on his dimwit and suggestions from his court jesters as Gen. Bajwa is the most easy going out of the 3 main contenders. He also said that NS will be in for a reality shock very soon as Gen. Bajwa is no push over and is known to be bold, straight forward and very patriotic.

 

[Peer Haman Shah]

Hostility isn't always done with swords but words (check my artful comeback lol) as well. When you say you don't accept cpec passing through disputed territory of Gilgit Baltistan. Can you give a goodwill statement in favour of CPEC for the Sake of peace.

With due respect of @Joe Shearer, i would like to tell that the peace talk with Pakistan is equal to perfidious person in India, THERE IS NO POWER IN ANY BODY IN INDIA TO TALK REGARDING PEACE, WITH PAKISTAN.

 

[Joe Shearer]

With due respect of @Joe Shearer, i would like to tell that the peace talk with Pakistan is equal to perfidious person in India, THERE IS NO POWER IN ANY BODY IN INDIA TO TALK REGARDING PEACE, WITH PAKISTAN.

Just as you say. Now please leave me alone, since you have already decided the matter.

Spoke to my cousin who has known Gen. Bajwa for 20 years, his exact words was that NS took the safest bet based on his dimwit and suggestions from his court jesters as Gen. Bajwa is the most easy going out of the 3 main contenders. He also said that NS will be in for a reality shock very soon as Gen. Bajwa is no push over and is known to be bold, straight forward and very patriotic.

Being a soft-spoken and decent man doesn't mean being a wimp. I am sure that this general will turn out to have all the qualities that higher echelons in the Pakistan Army possess - you don't get to three star rank because you hold your tea-cup gracefully - and we have already been told by our own former chief that this man was a thorough professional and a good soldier.

From the Indian side, we just hope that he will help to de-escalate the situation.

 

[Maxpane]

Hi,

There are many a christian officers in pak military and all the muslim soldiers follow their orders without prejudice---because the goal is the same---defense of pakistan.

I very much doubt that would have been an issue---unless sh-it was stirred up.

Agree seesil chaudhry one of the war hero in 65

 

[krash]

Gen Ishfaq Nadeem and Gen Javed Iqbal were better choices for COAS seat. May Allah Kareem have mercy on this country. Aameen.

Apparently, so were Gen. Haroon and Gen. Tariq before them........I don't see anyone complaining today.

I knew Ashfaq Nadeem would never be choosen cause he is straight forward guy and rumored to be in group that wanted Gen Raheel to take action against Nawaz Sharrif in siting dharna of Imran

Good thing he wasn't chosen then.

What about two other generals in Dawn story:

There are two other generals between Gen Zubair and Gen Ishfaq — Heavy Industrial Complex Taxila Chairman Lt Gen Syed Wajid Hussain and Director General Joint Staff Lt Gen Najibullah Khan — but both are not technically qualified to be appointed army chief".

Would they retire also?

This retirement thing over appointment of a junior officer is quiet silly. Apart from extreme cases, appointees were a course junior or few days. What is the problem "As long as you are serving Pakistan. It is an honor and oportunity".

Because hierarchy and strict adherence to it is built into and reinforced in the very physique of every army, it is the golden rule which cannot be broken and much of an army depends on it, hence the voluntary retirements. It is not something personal, it's for the preservation of the system.

It is the prerogative of the PM to appoint the COAS. He has the right to choose someone with whom he is comfortable. It is absolutely normal in every damn country on this planet except Pakistan. If General Ashfaq Nadeem was blunt and disrespectful, then obviously the PM would not appoint him. It happens all the time even in the First World.

Army officers, senior or junior, have no right to have any say in this matter. There are supposed to do their job just like any government servant.

And Pakistanis must get used to the unpalatable idea of civilian supremacy in a modern democratic environment. One can criticise the decision of the PM but no one can question his authority.
--------------------------------------
Though I dislike Imran Khan but if he (or any Mr/Ms. XYZ) were the PM, I would recognize his authority as it is a democratic norm.

Thank you.

I don't care if he is ahmadi, shia, sunni, wahabi, brelvi or deobandi. He has vast experience in his field.
Hope he continues legacy of general raheel, and keep good relation with all institutions.

Or Hindu, Christian, Sikh, Buddhist, Jain, Shintoist, as long as he is a competent patriotic Pakistani.

Pakistan is Islamic Republic of Pakistan. Secondly which part of Quran and Sunnah says it well bro in Islamic Republic. Non Muslims are not even supposed to serve in Army. That is why we take jizya which is a tax in return tell them they don't have to serve in Armed Forces we would protect them and there places of worship. Now as in case of Pakistan as there is no jizya still a non Muslim should not be made head of our Army. Specially when your whole Army motto is based on Iman and Taqwa and Jihad fi Sabilillah.

Please take this bs elsewhere. Non Muslims served under the Prophet (PBUH) in the army. In either Uhad or the Battle of the Trench when the Jewish tribes decided to go against their pact with the Prophet (PBUH) and not support the Muslims one Jewish chief strongly opposed their decision and joined the Muslim army with his men. He fell during that battle.

During the times of the Caliphs Dhimmis were even given important government positions.

 

[Salik]

No, because it isn't needed. It is made for the sake of the record. There is never any question of the Indian Army interfering with the setting up of the CPEC, or of harming anyone connected to it (or any civilian, for that matter). So there will be nothing that will happen to the CPEC, except that India will lose out.

An aside:

Civilians have got hurt in recent cross-border firing, but that is because the guns used are themselves not accurate beyond a certain point. Pakistanis, too, surely do not intend to harm civilians; they have harmed them.

Conclusion:

I can see that I have a slippery customer here, and must watch my p's and q's very carefully.

Off the record India and Pakistan have been earning $$ through foreign tourism in the region. Why is it necessary to bring CPEC on the record?

 

[krash]

In which wars did the 4 rightly guided caliphs recruite non-Muslims? Can you name the wars, and any notable non-Muslims? Any reference from the books, that are commonly accepted by all 4 fiqh of Islam, will be highly appreciated.

"If a Christian group elected to serve in the state's military forces, it was exempted from the Jizyah. Historical examples of this abound: the Jarajima, a Christian tribe living near Antioch (now in Turkey), by undertaking to support the Muslims and to fight on the battle front, did not have to pay the Jizyah and were entitled to a share of the captured booty. (Al-Baladhuri, p. 159) When the Islamic conquests reached northern Persia in 22 A.H., a similar covenant was established with a tribe living on the boundaries of those territories. They were consequently exempted from Jizyah in view of their military services. (Ibid.)". These examples have then been followed by Islamic Caliphates throughout history.

How illogical would it be if Islam prohibited non-Muslims to fight along side Muslims and then demanded tax from them for their protection because they were not fighting along side Muslims.......It is not that non-Muslims are not allowed to fight but that they are not obligated to fight and if they do then they are exempt from paying Jizya.

Supposed self-acclaimed scholars like Zarvan have made it very easy for our people's inner morbid sentiments to be expressed freely.......or is it the other way around?

Under an Islamic society bound to Islamic aims and the propagation of Islamic ideology the only position which is not allowed for a non-Muslim is of political leadership where by not belonging to the faith would naturally translate to lesser enthusiasm towards both of the above stated. Pakistan, btw, does not belong to either.

تو اس کا مطلب ساری ہوائی فائرنگ تھی ابھی تلک؟



I only said, and I am saying again, please don't compare their democracy with our democrazy.. We have a 'Z' instead of 'C' in the spelling. Hope you won't mind.

This completely empty excuse falls flat against everything that @Lavrentiy has been trying to say. Democrazy is made democracy by the people themselves, not by some messianic figure who would ride out of the sunset and put all our corrupt, complacent, incompetent, shameless behinds straight. This sitting in our living rooms, with our hands under our bums, having voted the democrazy in, having let it settle and then making excuses every which way along with whinny noises is not how it happens. You have made this democrazy, these leaders were not enforced upon you, they are just a result of it.

 

[PakSword]

If a Christian group elected to serve in the state's military forces, it was exempted from the Jizyah. Historical examples of this abound: the Jarajima, a Christian tribe living near Antioch (now in Turkey), by undertaking to support the Muslims and to fight on the battle front, did not have to pay the Jizyah and were entitled to a share of the captured booty. (Al-Baladhuri, p. 159) When the Islamic conquests reached northern Persia in 22 A.H., a similar covenant was established with a tribe living on the boundaries of those territories. They were consequently exempted from Jizyah in view of their military services. (Ibid.)". These examples have then been followed by Islamic Caliphates throughout history.

Thank you.. I will come back to you if I have any questions. But anyway, thank you again.

You have made this democrazy, these leaders were not enforced upon you, they are just a result of it.

I agree with the rest of the comment. However, disagree when you say that the leaders are not enforced on us.

No matter how much we try through vote, we will not be able to make an impact. This is because of the fact that voters in most parts of the country are not "qualified' enough to vote because they don't vote after understanding the manifesto. In fact they can't even read the manifesto, let alone understand it.

I went to a small town in Sindh for some work. My team asked a local to show us a village. He had some relationship with a wadera (who is still a MPA from Sindh). So the guy took us to this MPA's village. He greeted us and we asked so many questions. He was very frank. We asked about the schools in the village and how the villagers get the education, he showed us two buildings, one was for his family's children, and the other one was for poor villagers.

We asked why two, he told us a couple of teachers are residing in that building who teach their family's children separately. They were preparing for GCSE. The other building, well, was only reserved for religious education and little bit of Urdu classes for grade 1 and 2. We asked him why other children were not allowed in your school? He said, if they will pass GCSE, who will vote him? and then he laughed. That laugh is still part of my memory.

Most of the guys who are elected and become "LAWMAKERS" come from this background. So the current democratic system is in fact supporting these guys. No matter what you do, it will not help. I have participated in many "Ihtejaajs" "Jalsas" etc etc when I was in Pakistan.. But I am now firm that this "democrazy" is not leading us to anywhere.

And this is of course my opinion. I have spoken to so many pro democratic people who support current democrazy in Pakistan, my opinion hasn't changed a bit.

Sorry, but I just don't agree with the last part of your comment.

 

[krash]

Thank you.. I will come back to you if I have any questions. But anyway, thank you again.

No worries. Also, Mukhayriq was a well known, wealthy, rabbi and a leader of the Jewish tribe of Tha'labah. He strongly advised all the Jewish tribes of Medina to join the Muslim army in the Battle of Uhud but only a few from his tribe agreed with him. He was martyred in the battle and when the Prophet (PBUH) was told about his death the Prophet (PBUH) said "He was the best of Jews".

He also left his gardens and some wealth to the Prophet (PBUH) which was then used to establish the Waqf, the first ever charitable endowment of Islam.

I agree with the rest of the comment. However, disagree when you say that the leaders are not enforced on us.

No matter how much we try through vote, we will not be able to make an impact. This is because of the fact that voters in most parts of the country are not "qualified' enough to vote because they don't vote after understanding the manifesto. In fact they can't even read the manifesto, let alone understand it.

Our people are intrinsically dishonest towards the country. Nepotism, cronyism, nationalism, personal interests and allegiances take precedence over Pakistan everywhere. It is not about the manifesto at all, it is a lot simpler. All the parties have already been tested multiple times. Everyone sees and understands what they are and what they do, yet people still overwhelmingly vote for them and then only sit back and complain about their performance. How many a-political protests have you seen against any corrupt government in Pakistan ever? Right before the last elections a reporter went to internal Sindh and asked the uneducated rural people there how PPP's rule had served them. The answers were all the same, the PPP had run everything into the ground. Then the reporter asked who they were going to vote for now and the answers were again all the same and I quote, "Saab ji vote tou Bhutto ki amanat hai na". Forget the illiterates, show me the educated who aren't voting for the same said parties since decades?

Why is it so? Because we are ourselves corrupt. We vote for our own corrupt vested interests and reasons, then we sit at home pretending that we can't do nothing and blame the politicians for all the ills in our society. Tell me, does the government dictate that every government employee, more or less, demand bribes? That every employer exploit his/her employee? That every employee be dishonest towards his work? That no one follow traffic laws? That you try to overpower your fellow citizen every chance you get? That you steal from your own country? That you not pay taxes? That you crush the weaker and bow to the stronger? That you worship ethnicity? That you subjugate the minorities?

The peoples of the world who wanted to change their futures have shown us how to do it way too many times. Pakistan's situation is nothing compared to what most of them were facing.

Most of the guys who are elected and become "LAWMAKERS" come from this background. So the current democratic system is in fact supporting these guys. No matter what you do, it will not help. I have participated in many "Ihtejaajs" "Jalsas" etc etc when I was in Pakistan.. But I am now firm that this "democrazy" is not leading us to anywhere.

And this is of course my opinion. I have spoken to so many pro democratic people who support current democrazy in Pakistan, my opinion hasn't changed a bit.

Sorry, but I just don't agree with the last part of your comment.

How many of those Jalsas were a-political? The last time a true people's movement ran in Pakistan we deposed a military dictator. Don't even get me started on what the Jalsas today really are for. Destroying government and civil property? Looting? Blocking roads? PTI threatens to lockdown Islamabad? What!?!


We need to realise that we ourselves are the problem. These politicians are a direct result of the rot that has set in across our society. We are all corrupt, we are all complacent and these politicians are cut from the same stone that makes our society. And then we are so pathetic that we want a messiah to come and fix us with an iron fist. Until the people fix their ways nothing is going to change. You can bring whichever messiah you like, he/she will not be able to change anything. Once the people have changed, you'll produce leaders every which where. A crop of weeds cannot produce barley.