Lt.Gen Qamar Javed Bajwa the new COAS - Lt.Gen Zubair Hayat new CJCSC.

[araz]

Sir you said nothing but tagged someone May I ask why ?

Sir Muslims issue with Qadyanis is totally different than with christian and Jews. It's way too different than other issues.

In correct. All are non muslims and therefore alike from a purely religious point of view. Islam makes no difference between one or the other religion being closer to islam. It is a very clear "us or them". Qadianis that believe Mirza Ghulam Ahmad to be a Nabi are "them". However I have myself heard his Grand Son Mirza Tahir calling him a Musleh or a reformer. This muddies the water a bit because if this is their stated position then from an islamic point of view declaring them as non muslims is wrong . However as we pay lip service to our religion in any case who really cares
However let us get away from this religious debate and get back to the Current COAS.
A

 

[Zarvan]

In correct. All are nonmuslims and therefore alike from a purely religious point of view. Islam makes no difference between one or the other religion being closer to islam. It is a very clear "us or them". Qadianis that believe Mirza Ghulam Ahmad to be a Nabi are "them". However I have myself heard his Grand Son Mirza tahir calling him a Musleh or a reformer. This muddies the water a bit because if this is their stated position then from an iwslamic point of view declaring themn as non muslims becomes a matter for the jurist and not for a novice like me.
However let us get away from this religious debate and get back to the Current COAS.
A

There is difference specially with Qadyanis. This is case of Irtad that is either they are and should be considered murtad or not. Christians and Jews in time of 4 caliphs had full freedom to do worship but those who claimed to be PROPHETS and those who followed them were all eliminated. I am talking about those people who claimed to be PROPHETS after RASOOL SAW left the world.

 

[araz]

True but at the expense of deviation you need to understand that that is not the politically correct thing to do in this age. This was done when Islam was threatened by these false prophets and we were in ascendency. Neither is the case now. While we were building the state of Madinah Rasool Allah SAW tolerated even the munafiqeen like Abdullah ibn Ubay ibn Salool. This is the same time.
As I keep saying we need to understand the implications of statehood in islam. Politically just fact that they are declared non muslims and therefore prevented from preaching publically should be enough for the time.
However this is all mute debate as all of this would matter in an islamic state with true islamic laws being enforced. Sich a state has not exiated for many a centuries so the process has to be started from the scratch. This therefore is a mute debate.
A

 

[OTTOMAN]

There is difference specially with Qadyanis. This is case of Irtad that is either they are and should be considered murtad or not. Christians and Jews in time of 4 caliphs had full freedom to do worship but those who claimed to be PROPHETS and those who followed them were all eliminated. I am talking about those people who claimed to be PROPHETS after RASOOL SAW left the world.

So finally you learned that Christians and Jews were fully integrated elements of Islamic society, which existed in time of 4 Khalifa!
In same way at times, 70% army commanded by General Khalid bin Waleed were those non-Muslims who once were fighting with him but later they fought Romans and Zorastanis under his leadership, some of them became Muslim after living among Muslims and working under a Muslim general, but not all.
Khalid bin Waleed started his journey with handfull of Muslims and within period of few years, he conquered half of the world, he was not doing all this with his handfull of companions.
It was Khalid bin Walid's army where women were part of war machine in various forms, including fighting with sowrds.

Islam makes no difference between one or the other religion being closer to islam.

2:62 al-Quran

 

[araz]

So finally you learned that Christians and Jews were fully integrated elements of Islamic society, which existed in time of 4 Khalifa!
In same way at times, 70% army commanded by General Khalid bin Waleed were those non-Muslims who once were fighting with him but later they fought Romans and Zorastanis under his leadership, some of them became Muslim after living among Muslims and working under a Muslim general, but not all.
Khalid bin Waleed started his journey with handfull of Muslims and within period of few years, he conquered half of the world, he was not doing all this with his handfull of companions.
It was Khalid bin Walid's army where women were part of war machine in various forms, including fighting with sowrds.


2:62 al-Quran

Perhaps you might want to read the tafseer of the last 2 ayats of surah Al Fateha and realize who the maghdoobe alaihim and the da'aleen are.
The better interpretation of what I wanted to portray is in ayat 19-24.of Surah Aale imran. You might want to read this as well.
As a brother my advice to you is to avoid quoting the Quran in isolation. You need to understand each ayat in the context of its reason for coming( wajhe nuzool). There may also be ayats that have been abrogated as newer ayaat or ahkaam came down.
A

 

[Devil Soul]

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=463215537136228

نئے آرمی چیف قمر جاوید باجوہ کی عاجزی ۔۔۔۔ اللہ رے کیا آدمی ہے ۔۔ اللہ قمر جاوید باجوہ کے پاکستان اور اسلام کے لیے کام کرنے کی توفیق عطا کرے۔۔۔۔قمر باجوہ کی چھوٹے ملازموں سے ہاتھ ملا کر اپنے جونئیرز کو گلے لگانے کی شاندار ویڈیو

 

[The Eagle]

The new COAS is not Qadiyani/Ahmedi which is a clear fact but being propagated by the enemies as well as internal propaganda machine to demonize it way before he resume the office


However, the most important thing at the moment is not that he is Qadiyani as obviously he is not but let us pray and wish that he may not another Kiyani.

We cannot afford people as such it will be like never/too late.

 

[Zarvan]

So finally you learned that Christians and Jews were fully integrated elements of Islamic society, which existed in time of 4 Khalifa!
In same way at times, 70% army commanded by General Khalid bin Waleed were those non-Muslims who once were fighting with him but later they fought Romans and Zorastanis under his leadership, some of them became Muslim after living among Muslims and working under a Muslim general, but not all.
Khalid bin Waleed started his journey with handfull of Muslims and within period of few years, he conquered half of the world, he was not doing all this with his handfull of companions.
It was Khalid bin Walid's army where women were part of war machine in various forms, including fighting with sowrds.


2:62 al-Quran

They are part of society who had full freedom to worship but they were not part of Armed Forces. From non Muslims Jizya is taken and in return they don't serve in Armed Forces. Yes women can be part of war provided they maintain their full Hijab. Cut the crap Hazrat Khalid bin Waleed on commanded Muslims after he accepted Islam. @OTTOMAN

 

[Salik]

I am not sure, but that might be a compliment. If it is, thank you. If not, thank you all the same.

Sir it was a genuine compliment. Even if it was, how is all the same?

Next you'll say Shilpa Sheti and Sunil Sheti are pehn parha. Aglay da taan maran ho gia..

 

[OTTOMAN]

Perhaps you might want to read the tafseer of the last 2 ayats of surah Al Fateha and realize who the maghdoobe alaihim and the da'aleen are.
The better interpretation of what I wanted to portray is in ayat 19-24.of Surah Aale imran. You might want to read this as well.
As a brother my advice to you is to avoid quoting the Quran in isolation. You need to understand each ayat in the context of its reason for coming( wajhe nuzool). There may also be ayats that have been abrogated as newer ayaat or ahkaam came down.
A

No Sir, my mind dosn't accept that we can just burry some verses and twist others in the name of tafseer /hadis etc.

Creator has (always) guided his creation in very direct /simple way. there is nothing between the lines and there are no hidden meanings of any word, its just a translation thing... like if you take dictionary of any language to (say in) urdu, there will be many words given to deliver the meaning behind one foregin word, but some times there's just a befiting word in Urdu vocabulary as well, and not many example needed in such case!

So please, don't confuse the public with tafseer thingy, more than they already are.
It could be neccessary for kids and people living in caves but not for some one, been to school.

BTW, In my understanding, (2:62) is crux of Quran, and is a make/break point.
While to climb higher in heaven, parameters are defined, e.g. love, forgiveness, sacrifice and honesty. Which in same Quran are sumed up in one word: MUSLIM.

I conclude my discussion.

They are part of society who had full freedom to worship but they were not part of Armed Forces. From non Muslims Jizya is taken and in return they don't serve in Armed Forces. Yes women can be part of war provided they maintain their full Hijab. Cut the crap Hazrat Khalid bin Waleed on commanded Muslims after he accepted Islam. @OTTOMAN

Keep ranting same BS, which i have rejected few post earlier, i say again...... Jizya (in arabic) Tax (in english) Steuer (in german)..... are same dam thing and the ruler /govt. can decided how much or not at all.

Zakat is individual's choice, generally paid out when an individual decide to lead his life according to the principals of Islam. State has or should have no business with it. However, state can facilitate, provide cover to those who don't wish to be known as source.

Rest, your entire task is to twist Islam, highlight misconceptions (uninvited) exactly as western press /hawks define Islam, exactly the same way as Isis does. I can bet you are part of same BS, becuase timeline of your launch is same.

 

[araz]

No Sir, my mind dosn't accept that we can just burry some verses and twist others in the name of tafseer /hadis etc.

Creator has (always) guided his creation in very direct /simple way. there is nothing between the lines and there are no hidden meanings of any word, its just a translation thing... like if you take dictionary of any language to (say in) urdu, there will be many words given to deliver the meaning behind one foregin word, but some times there's just a befiting word in Urdu vocabulary as well, and not many example needed in such case!

So please, don't confuse the public with tafseer thingy, more than they already are.
It could be neccessary for kids and people living in caves but not for some one, been to school.

BTW, In my understanding, (2:62) is crux of Quran, and is a make/break point.
While to climb higher in heaven, parameters are defined, e.g. love, forgiveness, sacrifice and honesty. Which in same Quran are sumed up in one word: MUSLIM.

I conclude my discussion.



Keep ranting same BS, which i have rejected few post earlier, i say again...... Jizya (in arabic) Tax (in english) Steuer (in german)..... are same dam thing and the ruler /govt. can decided how much or not at all.

Zakat is individual's choice, generally paid out when an individual decide to lead his life according to the principals of Islam. State has or should have no business with it.

Rest, your entire task is to twist Islam, highlight misconceptions (uninvited) exactly as western press /hawks define Islam, exactly the same way as Isis does. I can bet you are part of same BS, becuase timeline of your launch is same.

My brother. You cant be further from the truth. The wajhe Nuzool is quoted from hazrat Salman Farsi RA by Mujahid. "I asked Rasool Allah SAW about a few of my companions who had been pious and lived pious lives. It also occured to me that how will Allah deal with the previous generations who had followed the Prophets of their time. It was at this time that this ayat was revealed".
THIS ayat pertains to the people who lived pious lives and believed in Allah and the day of judgement before the declaration of islam and Prophethood by our Prophet SAW.
Only if you look at the ayat in the context will it allign with the message of the rest of the Quran.
I am only mentioning this as people have erred grievously in the interpretation of this ayat.
You are obviously free to believe whatever you want to believe but the understanding of the Quran cannot come without having an understanding of the context in which it was revealed and how it has been taught to us by Rasool Allah SAW or the Sahaba. For that we need to have an understanding of hadeeth.
A

 

[Salik]

As we see people have different interpretataion of verses, like five fingers are not the same, will remain like that, but at the time of holding a pen or having a food they joint together at one point.

Pakistan is our center of knowledge and food and strength. Let all the fingers join at this centre point.

@araz sir you'd agree with that. Its the way forward.

 

[Zarvan]

No Sir, my mind dosn't accept that we can just burry some verses and twist others in the name of tafseer /hadis etc.

Creator has (always) guided his creation in very direct /simple way. there is nothing between the lines and there are no hidden meanings of any word, its just a translation thing... like if you take dictionary of any language to (say in) urdu, there will be many words given to deliver the meaning behind one foregin word, but some times there's just a befiting word in Urdu vocabulary as well, and not many example needed in such case!

So please, don't confuse the public with tafseer thingy, more than they already are.
It could be neccessary for kids and people living in caves but not for some one, been to school.

BTW, In my understanding, (2:62) is crux of Quran, and is a make/break point.
While to climb higher in heaven, parameters are defined, e.g. love, forgiveness, sacrifice and honesty. Which in same Quran are sumed up in one word: MUSLIM.

I conclude my discussion.



Keep ranting same BS, which i have rejected few post earlier, i say again...... Jizya (in arabic) Tax (in english) Steuer (in german)..... are same dam thing and the ruler /govt. can decided how much or not at all.

Zakat is individual's choice, generally paid out when an individual decide to lead his life according to the principals of Islam. State has or should have no business with it. However, state can facilitate, provide cover to those who don't wish to be known as source.

Rest, your entire task is to twist Islam, highlight misconceptions (uninvited) exactly as western press /hawks define Islam, exactly the same way as Isis does. I can bet you are part of same BS, becuase timeline of your launch is same.

Now I know why you are posting one distortion after another you are from those who follow kharji school of thought and deny Hadith and Sunnah. Sorry in Islam Quran and Sunnah are there and one ayat of Quran says there are ambiguous matters in the Quran too. Also tell me the meaning of worlds like Alif Laam MEEM ???? Secondly you can't know context of ayat without Tafsir and Sunnah. Zakat and any other things is not individual choice sorry. Zakat is defined in Quran and Sunnah and those who refuse to pay it would be either in Jail or dead. Sorry it's you who need stop applying western crap theory of religion of being private matter on Muslims, it's you who are clearly mixing western crap with Islam. @OTTOMAN

 

[araz]

As we see people have different interpretataion of verses, like five fingers are not the same, will remain like that, but at the time of holding a pen or having a food they joint together at one point.

Pakistan is our center of knowledge and food and strength. Let all the fingers join at this centre point.

@araz sir you'd agree with that. Its the way forward.

Lets leave this discussion behind. However my most humble request to all posterz is not to quote the Quran in isolation as it distorts the message of the Quran.
A

 

[Mangus Ortus Novem]

Lets leave this discussion behind. However my most humble request to all posterz is not to quote the Quran in isolation as it distorts the message of the Quran.
A

.


Dear Araz,

Personally I do not have knowledge of the religious discussion here. So, obviously I shall not comment on it.

Question to all Pak Friends:

Gen. Bajwa, at first and far most, is the Son of the Pak Soil. PA won't promote incopetence to higher echolons.

Will he serve Pak to the best of his abilities?

I have no doubt that he and his team will do their utter best to serve and protect Pak.

At this junction all Pak people should stand behind their new PA leader.

If there is anything that they need to do is that they set the bar High for the new leader and his team. Let him perform his best according to Pak people's expectation.

I have this distinct feeling that Pak Armed forces are transforming to become an example for the political class. This really good for Pak State.

Since, it is the forum of Pak Peoples, obviously they have the priviledge of discussing things that are important to them...such as their religion.

However, too much of something is not always good. Everything in moderation.

All the very best to the new PA leader and his team and their subordinates.

May they succeed to eradicate the cancer of foreign sponsored terror from Pak Soil.


All the best to you too, Araz.


Regards,

SPF