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Losses of Israel And Arabs in Wars After Creation of Israel

67 war

Total Israeli planes lost 45
Total planes lost by Egyptians Syrians Jordanians = 450

ratio

1 Israeli plane to 10 planes lost by egypt, syria Jordan


Israelis 1000 killed,
total Egyptians+Joradians+Syrians killed = 23500

Ratio 1 to 23.5


Israeli captured = 15
total Egyptians+Joradians+Syrians captured = 5000+500+500 = 6000

Ratio

1 Israeli to 400 Egyptians Syrians Jordanians captured



so you see

Ratio in favor of Israel is at least 1 to 10
but

in some cases it can go as high as 1 to 400 in favor of Israel



peace
A supposed historian who labels people as ignorant. Surprising.

Where are those figures from. Because if you Sir decided to actually read up on the subject from multiple sources you would know that all the ratios and numbers are disputed and there isn't an abundance of independent information on these wars. So where are they from?
 
@Frogman, off course the numbers are disputed.

I posted mine from Wiki. Even wiki gives "ranges".

But you want to dispute, well be my guest.

and

post yours?

Remember wars have already been fought. People dead and wounded.


This is just intellectual discussion.

Numbers may be disputed.


but don't take it to heart.

you probably weren't even born when that war was fought.

If Egypt lost back then, it is NOT your fault.


peace
 
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@Surenas link the report..

Show me the main battle field stand by Hizbis against Israeli army.

No fing jokes..


Just serious discussion please

Here you go.

First, let we begin with an article:

U.S. report: Hezbollah fought Israel better than any Arab army

A new report from the U.S. Army War College warns that the American military must learn the lessons of the Second Lebanon War, in which Hezbollah operated more like a conventional army than a guerrilla organization.

The report, "The 2006 Lebanon Campaign and the Future of Warfare: Implications for Army and Defense Policy," warns against placing too heavy an emphasis on classic guerrilla warfare, and raises the possibility of further non-state actors following the Lebanese militant group's example.

"Hezbollah's 2006 campaign in southern Lebanon has been receiving increasing attention as a prominent recent example of a non-state actor fighting a Westernized state," the authors of the report state. "In particular, critics of irregular-warfare transformation often cite the 2006 case as evidence that non-state actors can nevertheless wage conventional warfare in state-like ways."

The authors of the report, Dr. Stephen D. Biddle and Jeffrey A. Friedman, state that changes made by the U.S. Army in conducting urban warfare against guerrilla fighters in Iraq could compromise the military's ability to deal with other enemies in the future.

The authors give a high grade to Hezbollah's performance in the 2006 war, describing it as more effective than that of any Arab army that confronted Israel in the Jewish state's history, and that Hezbollah militants wounded more Israelis per fighter than any previous Arab effort.

Unlike a traditional guerrilla force, however, Hezbollah emphasized holding territory and digging in to bunkers, instead of the usual tactic of hiding among civilian populations. Likewise, the militant organization's discipline and coordination highly resembled those of conventional armies.

This combination of conventional and guerrilla tactics, the report claims, places new challenges before the U.S. Army. It calls for preparing the military for asymmetrical urban warfare, while at the same time working closely with civilian populations. It also calls for reducing military activity likely to harm the image of the U.S.

The report indicates that no army can be ideally prepared to deal with both kinds of enemy, conventional and guerrilla, simultaneously, and that in light of the discrepancies between the lessons of the Second Lebanon War and the current U.S. experience in Iraq and Afghanistan, serious challenges confront military planners.

While fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan demands the ability to defeat guerrilla forces, the example of Lebanon may inspire enemies of the U.S. to adopt more conventional methods.

U.S. report: Hezbollah fought Israel better than any Arab army - Israel News | Haaretz Daily Newspaper

US Army analysis:

Hezbollah had assembled a well-trained, well-armed, highly motivated, and highly evolved war-fighting machine on Israel’s northern border. Hezbollah had managed to drive the Israelis out of southern Lebanon in 2000, in a masterful 18-year campaign that proved an em* barrassing defeat for the IDF, its first. During the ensuing years, Hezbollah set about transforming itself from a purely guerrilla army into what its Secretary- General, Hasan Nasrallah, called a “new model” army. “It was not a regular army but was not a guerrilla in the traditional sense either. It was something in between,” Nasrallah stated.

By the summer of 2006, Hezbollah had assembled a well-trained, well- armed, highly motivated, and highly evolved war-fighting machine on Israel’s northern border. It consisted of at least an Iranian-trained, 3,000-man strong light infantry or commando brigade backed by a militia that was twice as large and overwhelmingly made up of veterans from 18-year campaign against Is* rael. Hezbollah had calculated accurately and had designed an organization and operational plan based on well-grounded assumptions. As reserve IAF campaign-planning officer Ron Tira pointed out, “Hezbollah designed a war in which presumably Israel could only choose which soft underbelly to ex* pose: the one whereby it avoids a ground operation and exposes its home front vulnerability, or the one whereby it enters Lebanon and sustains the loss of soldiers in ongoing ground-based attrition with a guerilla organization. Hez* bollah’s brilliant trap apparently left Israel with two undesirable options.”18

On 17 July, the first large scale Israeli ground foray began near Maroun al-Ras, in an effort to establish a foothold in southern Lebanon.47 One of the first units to come to blows with Hezbollah in Maroun al-Ras was the elite Maglan unit, part of what the IDF called a “special forces cluster.”48 “We didn’t know what hit us,” one Maglan soldier told a reporter. The special forces soldiers were stunned by the volume of gunfire and the doggedness of the Hezbollah fighters. “We expected a tent and three Kalashnikovs—that was the intelligence we were given. Instead, we found a hydraulic steel door leading to a well-equipped network of tunnels,” another Maglan reported. By the next morning, the Maglans were almost surrounded. It was reported from northern headquarters, that, “The commander of the IDF’s northern sector, Lieutenant-General Udi Adams, could barely believe that some of his best soldiers had been so swiftly trapped; neither could the chief of staff. ‘What’s wrong with the Maglans?’ Halutz demanded to know. ‘They are surrounded,’ Adam replied quietly. ‘I must send in more forces.’”49

From their underground bunkers and tunnels, Hezbollah fighters in and around Maroun al-Ras fought back frantically. As the battle intensified, the IDF was forced to throw more forces into the fray. Soon, tanks from three Is* raeli brigades entered the fight, along with the Egoz unit from the Golani Bri* gade, an engineer battalion, and Battalion 101 of the Paratrooper Brigade. On 19 July, a Hezbollah anti-tank missile killed five Egoz soldiers as they sought shelter in a house.50 At the same time, numerous IDF tanks were hit by long- range anti-tank missiles that wounded many of the tank crewmen. “They’re not fighting like we thought they would,” one IDF soldier said. “They’re fight* ing harder. They’re good on their own ground.” In fact, Hezbollah’s tactical proficiency bewildered the IDF. Hezbollah was not simply hunkering down and defending terrain but was using its small-arms, mortars, rockets, and anti* tank weapons to successfully maneuver against the IDF.51

http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a498599.pdf
 
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@Surenas

hahaha.

Which of these report shows Hizbis had a back to stand in a battlefield against Iareli army?


NONE

you are comparing apples to oranges.


Urban warfare vs. open battlefield contests are two TOTALLY different things.


please study your subject before throwing in childish articles .


urban warfare is when you hide behind civilians

That's no war,

That's girly thing.


Hope you see the difference
 
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@Surenas

hahaha.

Which of these report shows Hizbis had a back to stand in a battlefield against Iareli army?


NONE

you are comparing apples to oranges.


Urban warfare vs. open battlefield contests are two TOTALLY different things.


please study your subject before throwing in childish articles .


urban warfare is when you hide behind civilians

That's no war,

That's girly thing.


Hope you see the difference

Exactly, people ITT claiming that Hezbollah is a legitimate military force is nothing short of ridiculousness. Hezbollah has "success" (if you can call it that) because they use guerrilla tactics, do not play by the established rules of war, and are not opposed to using barbarian tactics such as human shields, firing missiles from rockets, killing their own people, etc.
 
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I posted mine from Wiki. Even wiki gives "ranges".
If we are talking 67 then there would be no point discussing ranges but they certainly aren't 100:1 in any sort of confrontation. Theres no need because it was catastrophic and the end result itself is not in dispute so minor victory's here and there do not alter much. 73 however is the one with the disputed outcome and ratios to this day. The ratio for that is closer to 4:1 in terms of aircraft (on the Egyptian so excluding Syria).

However in terms of personnel and tanks I haven't seen anything reputable enough to trust. So I dont really like going into numbers when looking at this war, rather I tend to look at how effective certain units or equipment was and the territory gained and lost. For example the Egyptians suffered lower casualties than the command even expected when we took the Bar Lev line and repelled the counter attack but sustained heavy losses when Sadat ordered our armoured brigades deep into the Sinai in order to keep pressure off the Syrians and so they were outside the SAM umbrella and were outclassed by Israeli armour and death rained on them from above. The Israelis also suffered heavy losses in the counter attack and at Chinese farm but suffered minimal losses when the Egyptian armoured brigades advanced into the Sinai. They also suffered heavy losses when they sneaked into the east bank and were thoroughly whipped by the resistance and commandos yet still they brag and bpast that they were 100km form Cairo.
 
Exactly, people ITT claiming that Hezbollah is a legitimate military force is nothing short of ridiculousness. Hezbollah has "success" (if you can call it that) because they use guerrilla tactics, do not play by the established rules of war, and are not opposed to using barbarian tactics such as human shields, firing missiles from rockets, killing their own people, etc.

Barbarian tactics? They even engaged your SOF units in open fields in 2006. You elite Maglan unit didn't even what struck them during the Battle of Maroun al-Ras. Your army couldn't even secure a relatively small town like Bint Jbeil. Tactically, Hezbollah showed a greater awareness than Israel, who went in South Lebanon without clear objectives. That was also the reason why many of your troops refused to take orders.
 
Barbarian tactics? They even engaged your SOF units in open fields in 2006. You elite Maglan unit didn't even what struck them during the Battle of Maroun al-Ras. Your army couldn't even secure a relatively small town like Bint Jbeil. Tactically, Hezbollah showed a greater awareness than Israel, who went in South Lebanon without clear objectives. That was also the reason why many of your troops refused to take orders.

You can only bring up one event where Hezbollah came and surrounded one lone group of 18 IDF soldiers, and then proceeded to sustain 24 casualties, while failing to eliminate our forces? Great "victory" for them. :rolleyes:
 
The Historian is a noob.

Please don't take the guy seriously, he must be drunk.

I first thought he was just trolling, but apparantly that guy is serious. Seriously, IDF is overrated. The only reason why most of us have high regards of them is because they've operated in a area full with military incompetent forces. Hezbollah, without close air support or other military edges, managed to repel most of IDF's offensives, even though Israel often had a troop advantage of 10:1. Winograd report showed IDF's poor performance during that war too, to such extent, that Olmert nearly resigned.

Why such poor performance? IDF is full with wimps, who enjoy the great weather and luxurious life in Tel Aviv, but are not willing to make great sacrifices. Fighting unarmed stone-throwing Palestinians is one thing; taking on a well-organized force like Hezbollah is something different.
 
@Frogman

It pains me to see Egyptians losses in 73. Just one aspect comes back over and over again. That the whole 3rd army got surrounded on Egyptian side of the canal.

How this was possible to get encircled on your own side of the border?

Generals incharge of 3rd army should have been shot on the spot.
@Surenas

you made the mistake of bringing 2-bit Hizbis into a discussion on war between ARMIES.

And now you continue to show your ignorance about the very thread.

If you want to discuss Hizbis, open another thread, but do not and I say please do not insist on discussing stuff in the wrong thread.

You say IDF is weak.

May be they are

But then bring the regular iranian army to face them off and let's all see what you are talking about.


So I urge you first to understand the thread.


peace
 
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You can only bring up one event where Hezbollah came and surrounded one lone group of 18 IDF soldiers, and then proceeded to sustain 24 casualties, while failing to eliminate our forces? Great "victory" for them. :rolleyes:

I am not taking about casualties, but about Hezbollah's (tactical) victory during that war. The fact that your elite Maglan unit was completely surrounded. Whole battalions retreating in the face of 5-10 Hezbollah (actually seen on video). Supply trucks not moving because the drivers are too scared to go into Lebanon. Whole divisions halting their advance because a soldier is wounded.
 
@Surenas

Hezbollah's (tactical) victory

is a joke

They got their @rses whooped,

The whole lebanon was destroyed

And you say "victory"


As I suggested earlier


Bring the Iranian army to face off IDF, to see the true test.


do not waste time to talk about bunch of loonies like Talib@stards cowards attacking civilians and when faced with regular army, just run like girly girls.

Stand like men and fight

if you want to win
 
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I am not taking about casualties, but about Hezbollah's tactical victory during that war. The fact that your elite Maglan unit was completely surrounded. Whole battalions retreating in the face of 5-10 Hezbollah (actually seen on video). Supply trucks not moving because the drivers are too scared to go into Lebanon. Whole divisions halting their advance because a soldier is wounded.

Just answer this one question. On the whole who do you honestly say is far and away the more victorious/stronger side?
 
@FaujHistorian

Sadats order to move the armoured brigades further into the Sinai against Alshazlys wishes is what created a gap or weakness in the Egyptian lines on the west bank of the canal which with American reconnaissance reports the Israelis exploited. Alshazly proposed moving a brigade from the eastern bank to the west bank of the canal but after opposing Sadat prior to that he was ignored, Sadat also thought that this would leave the eastern side exposed somehow (his book doesn't really make sense. I think it was just because Shazly disagreed with him). The Israelis exploited this and that lead to Chinese farm and eventually the encirclement of the third army (a relative of mine was actually captured and he was part of the thirds commandos). Now the Americans and Israelis over exaggerated the encirclement of the third (western bank by the way) as if the war had continued reserve forces would have been mobilised and the Israelis themselves would have been encircled. The Israelis also made territorial gains after the ceasefire. The third was by no means out of the equation or unable to fight although they were encircled.
 
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