Losing My Religion?

[cleverrider]

I spent some of my younger days as a very agnostic person.
Now I know some things I didn't know back then.

Ever since, I've never felt the need to validate my religious beliefs, go about proving them.
Religion is faith, not fact, that is what separates religion from science.

Agree! Thats why I hate when "intelligent life" on this forum & elsewhere try to answer the questions that doesn't have any answers to it.

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

the onus is on you to prove that the Universe does not have a creator.

onus is on those who assume that since universe is here it must have been created.they are just assuming a unknown creator with out any evidence of his existence.

that a created thing needs a creator is a fact being replicated at every instant by everyone.

yes created things must have a creator, to know that something is created we must have the evidence of creation, existence is not evidence of creation..and you are simply assuming with out any evidence of creation that since universe exists it must have been created.

it is a fallacy to take the answer to How as an answer for Who![/QUOTE]

 

[ajpirzada]

cant provide you the answer of how universe came into existence.. but just because the scientific community doesn't have the answer as we dont have the supporting evidence.. that doesn't mean I start believing religous data based of fantasy....

Just because we dont know the value of a=? that doesn't mean a=flying horses...

Now I wont ask you about creation or theology... I will ask you a simple question, do you believe in quran and hadiths, do you beleive in miracles performed by prophet muhammad?

you (as an scientific community) can provide me with the answer of HOW. what you cannot answer is WHO! and as of now and in the foreseeable future, being scientific requires believing in the everyday experimental replication of creation necessitating a creator.

well im not debating with you religion. im just stating that creation requiring a creator is a scientific reality.

 

[MilSpec]

well im not debating with you religion. im just stating that creation requiring a creator is a scientific reality.

Absolutely agree creation requires creator, but that has nothing to do with the universe as there is no data pointing to it being "created".... I cant provide you the answer to "who", but by inability to provide the "who" when most of the current data suggest there wasn't a creator to begin with doesn't provide you the luxury to supplant a ridiculous figure like scooby doo or superman in the equation, does it?

 

[ajpirzada]

Absolutely agree creation requires creator, but that has nothing to do with the universe as there is no data pointing to it being "created".... I cant provide you the answer to "who", but by inability to provide the "who" when most of the current data suggest there wasn't a creator to begin with doesn't provide you the luxury to supplant a ridiculous figure like scooby doo or superman in the equation, does it?

why is universe the exception to the rule of creation requiring a creator? just because you cannot come up with data does not negate all the other data upholding the notion in every single case.

 

[MilSpec]

why is universe the exception to the rule of creation requiring a creator? just because you cannot come up with data does not negate all the other data upholding the notion in every single case.

haha... what other data??? there is no exception, you are claiming creator created universe, tell us what points at universe being created at the first place... or even life for that matter, what point at being created and not evolved?

shed some light on the creator of the universe theory... actual examples .. not same age old semantics used by all of you intel design people!!!

 

[joekrish]

@Neptune Religion is a personal choice, respect all but you dont have to follow any as long as you are a good human no god, belive me no god will reject you.

 

[ajpirzada]

haha... what other data??? there is no exception, you are claiming creator created universe, tell us what points at universe being created at the first place... or even life for that matter, what point at being created and not evolved?

shed some light on the creator of the universe theory... actual examples .. not same age old semantics used by all of you intel design people!!!

do u need data to know that everything created requires a creator? in your own words 'Absolutely agree creation requires creator.' if this is so, then why do you make universe an exception? i dont need to know where the first brick was laid to figure out that the building was created. and same goes for every created thing. you need to know the starting point to further improve your understanding regarding HOW it was created but not about by WHO.

the bottom line is that you cannot escape the everyday scientific reality of creation requiring a creator. and you make universe an exception to this rule without any supporting evidence to suit your Atheistic belief.

 

[Zabaniyah]

Those questions crossed my mind as well @Neptune. Though, I'm not a religious person per say. I appreciated your open-mindedness and courage. Salute to you sir.

To me, I see God as a teacher of unlimited capabilities. Not a bureaucrat as certain people force others to believe.

 

[thesolar65]

To surrender to ignorance and call it God has always been premature, and it remains premature today.


My only Question "Who created who? Man created GOD or GOD created Man?"

 

[Skies]

have i answered your question?


but unfortunately, some ignorant have misused these terms to an extent that it becomes shirk.

1. Yes I have got, that anyone of any religion can find peace in remembrance of GOD but what if a Hindu finds peace in worshiping a doll, not God?


2.
After going through the wiki, it seems that Sufism actually predates Islam. People of other religions like Buddha, Hindus also find peace in mediation of Divine Unity.

And I agree with you that: the terminologies in Sufism are not literal always and mostly individual perception. I think some Muslims are committing lesser shirk (Shirk-al-Asghar) or hidden polytheism when he claims to believe in God but his thoughts and actions do not reflect his belief. And Sufism is opposed by Wahhabi and Salafist Muslims. I think it is because there is chance of committing Shirk.

Sufism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[cyphercide]

No offense, but your questions sound like something a preteen would ask. Heighten the spirit of scientific inquiry and empirical evidence within yourself, the obvious truth will reveal itself soon enough.

 

[MilSpec]

do u need data to know that everything created requires a creator?

then i come back to my first question, if some one created the universe, who created creator??? in your own words everything existent needs a creator, right?

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

cant provide you the answer of how universe came into existence.. but just because the scientific community doesn't have the answer as we dont have the supporting evidence.. that doesn't mean I start believing religous data based of fantasy....

Just because we dont know the value of a=? that doesn't mean a=flying horses...

Now I wont ask you about creation or theology... I will ask you a simple question, do you believe in quran and hadiths, do you beleive in miracles performed by prophet muhammad?

You are comparing apples with oranges. You need to understand that God is not a material being. Material evidence of God would be rather silly. scientific method does not operate on supernatural entities. We have detailed discussion and argument in this topic. Take some efforts to read few pages of this topic to understand the differences between belief, fact, truth


http://www.defence.pk/forums/members-club/105256-charles-darwin-racist-15.html


BELIEF - Something which is held to be true by an individual.
FACT - A statement that can be proven.
TRUTH - A statement that is correct

Most things which people tend to discuss as beliefs are not facts which means they cannot be or have not been proven, though they still may be true. for example if someone say Dolphins are more intelligent than human beings now this statement could not verified or disproved so its for peoples what they believe.

For example wine is good or wine is bad? Now can you tell which statement is based upon fact? You cannot so peoples will have different beliefs about whether wine is good or bad. If someone say wine contains ethanol and will cause an intoxicated state of mind if consumed then this is a scientific statement of fact. Notice how we can do an experiment based on the scientific theory that wine causes intoxication. By simply drinking a quantity of wine we can evaluate the truth or falsehood of this statement.

Take another example of Creationism vs the Big Bag Theory. The first is a belief and without proof or disproof, it may or may not be true. The Big Bang theory is widely accepted by scientists as the best explanation we have but it is still theory, based on assumptions and no true scientist will tell you otherwise. The scientist may choose to believe that the theory is correct but that is still a belief, no more or less valid than the person who believes in God's creative genius. Some people will also claim that God created the universe using the Big Bang. Again, this is merely a belief, unprovable either way.

The question of the existence of god is not a scientific question. God is not observed in nature except by inference of his presence by a particular observer. A Christian might observe god in the sunset, while an atheist might only observe diffraction and diffusion and chromatic extinction of sunlight. Many scientists may believe in a god and many highly unscientific people may not believe in god. There are many different kinds of people on planet earth.

 

[Azizam]

I personally don't adhere to any religion including atheism because i don't want to stick a label on myself to restrict my freedom. I value freedom in life more than anything. I was raised without a religion and I also have some questions about god. Appreciate if anyone can answer these questions.

What will happen to the people who never heard of god's religion. Will they go to heaven or hell?
What will happen to a person who did good in his whole life and didn't adhere to any religion? If he goes to hell, that's quite unfair isn't it?
About the way we humans were created I don't think this is an intelligent design at all since humans tend to be dominating, selfish and cruel. What was the intention of god to create us in this way and send most of us into hell? Is he playing some kind of a game with us?
Let's say we go to paradise. Everything we do in this life is to go to paradise and finally we achieve our goal. For how many years will we stay there? 1 million years? 1 billion years? 1 trillion years? but one day we will lose the value of paradise as we lose value in anything we get in this life and it will come to a point where we will get tired of it and start thinking about other plans. Do you agree?